For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.
Matthew 5:18
The Prophet Jesus peace be upon him,
came to complete the law of the ancient prophets
Without decrease or increase
The remaining authentic verses in the Old Testament cannot be omitted
Why such variance in viewpoints? To begin with, different theological camps disagree on which books should be included in the Bible. One camp’s apocrypha is another’s scripture. Secondly, even among those books that have been canonized, the many variant source texts lack uniformity. This lack of uniformity is so ubiquitous that The Interpreter’s Dictionary of the Bible states, “It is safe to say that there is not one sentence in the NT in which the MS [manuscript] tradition is wholly uniform.”[2]
Not one sentence? We can’t trust a single sentence of the Bible? Hard to believe.
Maybe
The fact is that there are over 5700 Greek manuscripts of all or part of the New Testament.[3] Furthermore, “no two of these manuscripts are exactly alike in all their particulars…. And some of these differences are significant.”[4] Factor in roughly ten thousand manuscripts of the Latin Vulgate, add the many other ancient variants (i.e., Syriac, Coptic, Armenian, Georgian, Ethiopic, Nubian, Gothic, Slavonic), and what do we have?
A lot of manuscripts
A lot of manuscripts that fail to correspond in places and not infrequently contradict one another. Scholars estimate the number of manuscript variants in the hundreds of thousands, some estimating as high as 400,000.[5] In Bart D. Ehrman’s now famous words, “Possibly it is easiest to put the matter in comparative terms: there are more differences in our manuscripts than there are words in the New Testament.”[6]
How did this happen?
Poor record keeping. Dishonesty. Incompetence. Doctrinal prejudice. Take your pick.
None of the original manuscripts have survived from the early Christian period.[7]/[8] The most ancient complete manuscripts (Vatican MS. No. 1209 and the Sinaitic Syriac Codex) date from the fourth century, three hundred years after Jesus’ ministry. But the originals? Lost. And the copies of the originals? Also lost. Our most ancient manuscripts, in other words, are copies of the copies of the copies of nobody-knows-just-how-many copies of the originals.
No wonder they differ
In the best of hands, copying errors would be no surprise. However, New Testament manuscripts were not in the best of hands. During the period of Christian origins, scribes were untrained, unreliable, incompetent, and in some cases illiterate.[9] Those who were visually impaired could have made errors with look-alike letters and words, while those who were hearing-impaired may have erred in recording scripture as it was read aloud. Frequently scribes were overworked, and hence inclined to the errors that accompany fatigue.
In the words of Metzger and Ehrman, “Since most, if not all, of them [the scribes] would have been amateurs in the art of copying, a relatively large number of mistakes no doubt crept into their texts as they reproduced them.”[10] Worse yet, some scribes allowed doctrinal prejudice to influence their transmission of scripture.[11] As Ehrman states, “The scribes who copied the texts changed them.”[12] More specifically, “The number of deliberate alterations made in the interest of doctrine is difficult to assess.”[13] And even more specifically, “In the technical parlance of textual criticism—which I retain for its significant ironies—these scribes ‘corrupted’ their texts for theological reasons.”[14]
Errors were introduced in the form of additions, deletions, substitutions and modifications, most commonly of words or lines, but occasionally of entire verses.[15] [16] In fact, “numerous changes and accretions came into the text,”[17] with the result that “all known witnesses of the New Testament are to a greater or lesser extent mixed texts, and even several of the earliest manuscripts are not free from egregious errors.”[18]
In Misquoting Jesus, Ehrman presents persuasive evidence that the story of the woman taken in adultery (John 7:53-8:12) and the last twelve verses of Mark were not in the original gospels, but added by later scribes.[19] Furthermore, these examples “represent just two out of thousands of places in which the manuscripts of the New Testament came to be changed by scribes.”[20]
In fact, entire books of the Bible were forged.[21] This doesn’t mean their content is necessarily wrong, but it certainly doesn’t mean it’s right. So which books were forged? Ephesians, Colossians, 2 Thessalonians, 1 and 2 Timothy, Titus, 1 and 2 Peter, and Jude—a whopping nine of the twenty-seven New Testament books and epistles—are to one degree or another suspect.[22]
Forged books? In the Bible?
Why are we not surprised? After all, even the gospel authors are unknown. In fact, they’re anonymous.[23] Biblical scholars rarely, if ever, ascribe gospel authorship to Matthew, Mark, Luke, or John. As Ehrman tells us, “Most scholars today have abandoned these identifications, and recognize that the books were written by otherwise unknown but relatively well-educated Greek-speaking (and writing) Christians during the second half of the first century.”[24] Graham Stanton affirms, “The gospels, unlike most Graeco-Roman writings, are anonymous. The familiar headings which give the name of an author (‘The Gospel according to …’) were not part of the original manuscripts, for they were added only early in the second century.”[25]
So what, if anything, did Jesus’ disciples have to do with authoring the gospels? Little or nothing, so far as we know. But we have no reason to believe they authored any of the books of the Bible. To begin with, let us remember Mark was a secretary to Peter, and Luke a companion to Paul. The verses of Luke 6:14-16 and Matthew 10:2-4 catalogue the twelve disciples, and although these lists differ over two names, Mark and Luke don’t make either list. So only Matthew and John were true disciples. But all the same, modern scholars pretty much disqualify them as authors anyway.
Why?
Good question. John being the more famous of the two, why should we disqualify him from having authored the Gospel of “John”?
Umm … because he was dead?
Multiple sources acknowledge there is no evidence, other than questionable testimonies of second century authors, to suggest that the disciple John was the author of the Gospel of “John.”[26] [27] Perhaps the most convincing refutation is that the disciple John is believed to have died in or around 98 CE.[28] However, the Gospel of John was written circa 110 CE.[29] So whoever Luke (Paul’s companion), Mark (Peter’s secretary), and John (the unknown, but certainly not the long-dead one) were, we have no reason to believe any of the gospels were authored by Jesus’ disciples
How the Bible was corrupted by Dr. Bart Ehrman YouTube
كيف تم تحريف الانجيل الدكتور بارت ايرمان YouTube
New Testament of the Bible regarding Jesus by Yusha ...
هندوسية تدخل الإٍسلام بعد سؤال مترجم A hindu woman is accepting Islam
مسيحي يعتنق الإسلام في حوار مع عباس ...
Transparency and credibility of factual facts
Moderator: Moderators
-
Waterfall
- Scholar
- Posts: 430
- Joined: Sat Dec 24, 2016 10:08 am
- Has thanked: 31 times
- Been thanked: 3 times
Re: Transparency and credibility of factual facts
Post #2Namaskaram...
Let us talk about peace on Earth...
www.facebook.com/unify
www.facebook.com/MINDFULCHRISTIANITY
Would you like to withdraw all/some of your claims...
Your friend forever
Waterfall
Let us talk about peace on Earth...
www.facebook.com/unify
www.facebook.com/MINDFULCHRISTIANITY
Would you like to withdraw all/some of your claims...
Your friend forever
Waterfall
Love is the salt of life. It takes a moment to understand and eternity to live.
Carsten Ploug Olsen
Carsten Ploug Olsen
Re: Transparency and credibility of factual facts
Post #3Jesus was not eternal from eternity
The argument is made that because Jesus was “before” Abraham, There is no question that Jesus figuratively “existed” in Abraham’s time. However, he did not actually physically exist as a person; rather he “existed” in the plan of God. A careful reading of the context of the verse shows that Jesus was speaking of “existing” in God’s foreknowledge.
Here is another example where a Prophet existed in God’s foreknowledge. even before he was born, yet he was not at all Divine,
Jeremiah 1:5 –“Before I formed you in the womb I knew[a] you,
before you were born I set you apart;
I appointed you as a prophet to the nations.”
Prophet Muhammad (sallallaahu alayhi wasallam) said: “I was a Prophet when Adam was between water and clay”
Yet, no Muslim claims that the Prophet was god .
Attaching ‘Divinity’ to such statements shall be absurd and meaningless.
Because the Gospels are distorted, and Jesus did not say everything that John mentioned
The text does not specify the period that Jesus, peace be upon him, is supposed to have lived before Abraham, and there is no evidence that it is eternal. Therefore, there is never a faithful way to make this passage in John 8:58 proves the divinity of Christ
There is no word for "am" in Hebrew or Arabic. And pronouns are not proper nouns.
Basic grammer.
Q&A Jesus:Before Abraham Was, I Am (John 8:58) - Sheikh
شابان أمريكيان انبهرا بشرح الشيخ عثمان بن فاروق
فضائح الكنيسة الكاثوليكية من ق*ل واغت*اب الأطفال + شاب يُسلم
The argument is made that because Jesus was “before” Abraham, There is no question that Jesus figuratively “existed” in Abraham’s time. However, he did not actually physically exist as a person; rather he “existed” in the plan of God. A careful reading of the context of the verse shows that Jesus was speaking of “existing” in God’s foreknowledge.
Here is another example where a Prophet existed in God’s foreknowledge. even before he was born, yet he was not at all Divine,
Jeremiah 1:5 –“Before I formed you in the womb I knew[a] you,
before you were born I set you apart;
I appointed you as a prophet to the nations.”
Prophet Muhammad (sallallaahu alayhi wasallam) said: “I was a Prophet when Adam was between water and clay”
Yet, no Muslim claims that the Prophet was god .
Attaching ‘Divinity’ to such statements shall be absurd and meaningless.
Because the Gospels are distorted, and Jesus did not say everything that John mentioned
The text does not specify the period that Jesus, peace be upon him, is supposed to have lived before Abraham, and there is no evidence that it is eternal. Therefore, there is never a faithful way to make this passage in John 8:58 proves the divinity of Christ
There is no word for "am" in Hebrew or Arabic. And pronouns are not proper nouns.
Basic grammer.
Q&A Jesus:Before Abraham Was, I Am (John 8:58) - Sheikh
شابان أمريكيان انبهرا بشرح الشيخ عثمان بن فاروق
فضائح الكنيسة الكاثوليكية من ق*ل واغت*اب الأطفال + شاب يُسلم
-
Waterfall
- Scholar
- Posts: 430
- Joined: Sat Dec 24, 2016 10:08 am
- Has thanked: 31 times
- Been thanked: 3 times
Re: Transparency and credibility of factual facts
Post #4Namaskaram...
I think you should listen to some music and seek the truth
Let us talk about peace on Earth...
https://www.youtube.com/@ShamanOaks
https://www.youtube.com/@LifeAfterLifeNDE-is1kh
Your friend forever
Waterfall
I think you should listen to some music and seek the truth
Let us talk about peace on Earth...https://www.youtube.com/@ShamanOaks
https://www.youtube.com/@LifeAfterLifeNDE-is1kh
Your friend forever
Waterfall
Love is the salt of life. It takes a moment to understand and eternity to live.
Carsten Ploug Olsen
Carsten Ploug Olsen
Re: Transparency and credibility of factual facts
Post #5Christians claim that in the birth of Jesus, there occurred the miracle of the incarnation of God in the form of a human being. To say that God became truly a human being invites a number of questions. Let us ask the following about the man-God Jesus. What happened to his foreskin after his circumcision (Luke 2:21)?
Did it ascend to heaven, or did it decompose as with any human piece of flesh? During his lifetime what happened to his hair, nails, and blood shed from wounds? Did the cells of his body die as in ordinary human beings? If his body did not function in a truly human way, he could not be truly human as well as truly God. Yet, if his body functioned exactly in a human way, this would nullify any claim to divinity. It would be impossible for any part of God, even if incarnate, to decompose in any way and still be considered God. The everlasting, one God, in whole or in part, does not die, disintegrate, or decompose: ‘For I the Lord do not change.’ (Malachi 3:6)
Did Jesus’ flesh dwell in safety after his death?
Unless Jesus’ body never underwent ‘decay’ during his lifetime he could not be God, but if it did not undergo ‘decay’ then he was not truly human.
The impossibility of incarnation
? Timothy 1 * 6:16
16 who alone is immortal and who lives in unapproachable light, whom no one has seen or can see. To him be honor and might forever. Amen.
The impossibility of the incarnation because God was not seen by anyone
Romans 1:23
23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like a mortal human being and birds and animals and reptiles.
: Romans 1:25
25 They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.
All texts confirm the impossibility of the incarnation, because it is a lie and a fabrication against God and a shame for people
By myself I can do nothing; I judge only as I hear, and my judgment is just, for I seek not to please myself but him who sent me.
◄ John 5:30 ►
The text is clear, Christ cannot do anything on his own, why?? Because he is waiting for an order from the father who sent him
هل الله تجسد في المسيح ؟ احمد ديدات
Was Jesus(pbuh) the God Incarnate? -Sheikh Ahmed Deedat(Rah)
لماذا أسلم هذا الشاب الأسكتلندي؟.. أدركت الآن لماذا يحاربون الإسلام!
Did it ascend to heaven, or did it decompose as with any human piece of flesh? During his lifetime what happened to his hair, nails, and blood shed from wounds? Did the cells of his body die as in ordinary human beings? If his body did not function in a truly human way, he could not be truly human as well as truly God. Yet, if his body functioned exactly in a human way, this would nullify any claim to divinity. It would be impossible for any part of God, even if incarnate, to decompose in any way and still be considered God. The everlasting, one God, in whole or in part, does not die, disintegrate, or decompose: ‘For I the Lord do not change.’ (Malachi 3:6)
Did Jesus’ flesh dwell in safety after his death?
Unless Jesus’ body never underwent ‘decay’ during his lifetime he could not be God, but if it did not undergo ‘decay’ then he was not truly human.
The impossibility of incarnation
? Timothy 1 * 6:16
16 who alone is immortal and who lives in unapproachable light, whom no one has seen or can see. To him be honor and might forever. Amen.
The impossibility of the incarnation because God was not seen by anyone
Romans 1:23
23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like a mortal human being and birds and animals and reptiles.
: Romans 1:25
25 They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.
All texts confirm the impossibility of the incarnation, because it is a lie and a fabrication against God and a shame for people
By myself I can do nothing; I judge only as I hear, and my judgment is just, for I seek not to please myself but him who sent me.
◄ John 5:30 ►
The text is clear, Christ cannot do anything on his own, why?? Because he is waiting for an order from the father who sent him
هل الله تجسد في المسيح ؟ احمد ديدات
Was Jesus(pbuh) the God Incarnate? -Sheikh Ahmed Deedat(Rah)
لماذا أسلم هذا الشاب الأسكتلندي؟.. أدركت الآن لماذا يحاربون الإسلام!
-
Waterfall
- Scholar
- Posts: 430
- Joined: Sat Dec 24, 2016 10:08 am
- Has thanked: 31 times
- Been thanked: 3 times
Re: Transparency and credibility of factual facts
Post #6Namaskaram...
What do we know...
https://www.youtube.com/@ShamanOaks
https://www.youtube.com/@LifeAfterLifeNDE-is1kh
Let us talk about Peace on Earth...
Your friend forever
Waterfall
What do we know...
https://www.youtube.com/@ShamanOaks
https://www.youtube.com/@LifeAfterLifeNDE-is1kh
Let us talk about Peace on Earth...
Your friend forever
Waterfall
Love is the salt of life. It takes a moment to understand and eternity to live.
Carsten Ploug Olsen
Carsten Ploug Olsen
Re: Transparency and credibility of factual facts
Post #7Biblical absurdities about the prophets
the absurdities attributed to the prophets and pious men found in the "holy" bible. As a Muslim, we do not recognize this nonsense. The prophets, peace be upon them, are innocent of this gossip.
When we read the Bible, as Muslims, we come across certain absurdities such as the prophet Lot (as) who allegedly slept with his two daughters under the influence of alcohol ,
or David (as) who would have committed adultery with Uri's wife and would have had her husband killed in order to marry her then,
Aaron (as) who would have made the idol of the golden calf which perverts the sons of Israel, Solomon (as) his polytheistic life because of his wives, etc. May God preserve us from saying such nonsense about the best men who walked this earth.
Now let's see another absurdity attributed to the prophet Noah (as).
The tragic episode of Noah's nudity
We read in Genesis chapter 9, 22-23 this:
“Noah, first a farmer planted a vineyard. He drank of his wine and got drunk, and lay naked in the midst of his tent. Ham, the father of Canaan, saw his father naked and told his two brothers outside.But Shem and Japheth took a garment and laid it across their shoulders; then they walked in backward and covered their father’s naked body. Their faces were turned the other way so that they would not see their father naked.
The first thing that shocks here is seeing the prophet Noah (as) getting drunk to the point of undressing while remaining naked “in the middle of his tent”. Besides this absurdity attributed to this noble prophet, there is another ...
What to say after all this? Not much. Christians who attempt to refute the Jewish comments should be very careful because Jesus (as) allegedly said: “ 2 “The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat. 3 So you must be careful to do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach.
Matthew 23, 2-3).
That is, the Jews are the best able to understand their scriptures. Not to mention that they consider that the Talmud contains part of the oral Torah which was revealed to Moses (as) on Mount Sinai ... It is therefore a revelation for them.
see here
scandal
أحمد ديدات -- عتاد الجهاد -- كينيا -- مترجم
رسالة مؤثرة من بريطاني على فراش الموت اعتنق الإسلام
MMA Fighter Willi Ott Converts to Islam - بطل الفنون القتالية الألماني ويلي أوت يعتنق الإسلام
the absurdities attributed to the prophets and pious men found in the "holy" bible. As a Muslim, we do not recognize this nonsense. The prophets, peace be upon them, are innocent of this gossip.
When we read the Bible, as Muslims, we come across certain absurdities such as the prophet Lot (as) who allegedly slept with his two daughters under the influence of alcohol ,
or David (as) who would have committed adultery with Uri's wife and would have had her husband killed in order to marry her then,
Aaron (as) who would have made the idol of the golden calf which perverts the sons of Israel, Solomon (as) his polytheistic life because of his wives, etc. May God preserve us from saying such nonsense about the best men who walked this earth.
Now let's see another absurdity attributed to the prophet Noah (as).
The tragic episode of Noah's nudity
We read in Genesis chapter 9, 22-23 this:
“Noah, first a farmer planted a vineyard. He drank of his wine and got drunk, and lay naked in the midst of his tent. Ham, the father of Canaan, saw his father naked and told his two brothers outside.But Shem and Japheth took a garment and laid it across their shoulders; then they walked in backward and covered their father’s naked body. Their faces were turned the other way so that they would not see their father naked.
The first thing that shocks here is seeing the prophet Noah (as) getting drunk to the point of undressing while remaining naked “in the middle of his tent”. Besides this absurdity attributed to this noble prophet, there is another ...
What to say after all this? Not much. Christians who attempt to refute the Jewish comments should be very careful because Jesus (as) allegedly said: “ 2 “The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat. 3 So you must be careful to do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach.
Matthew 23, 2-3).
That is, the Jews are the best able to understand their scriptures. Not to mention that they consider that the Talmud contains part of the oral Torah which was revealed to Moses (as) on Mount Sinai ... It is therefore a revelation for them.
see here
scandal
أحمد ديدات -- عتاد الجهاد -- كينيا -- مترجم
رسالة مؤثرة من بريطاني على فراش الموت اعتنق الإسلام
MMA Fighter Willi Ott Converts to Islam - بطل الفنون القتالية الألماني ويلي أوت يعتنق الإسلام
-
Waterfall
- Scholar
- Posts: 430
- Joined: Sat Dec 24, 2016 10:08 am
- Has thanked: 31 times
- Been thanked: 3 times
Re: Transparency and credibility of factual facts
Post #8Namaskaram...
What do we know...
https://www.youtube.com/@ShamanOaks
https://www.youtube.com/@LifeAfterLifeNDE-is1kh
Let us get up on the mountain...
Your friend forever
Waterfall
What do we know...
https://www.youtube.com/@ShamanOaks
https://www.youtube.com/@LifeAfterLifeNDE-is1kh
Let us get up on the mountain...
Your friend forever
Waterfall
Love is the salt of life. It takes a moment to understand and eternity to live.
Carsten Ploug Olsen
Carsten Ploug Olsen
Re: Transparency and credibility of factual facts
Post #9He refused to swear an oath on the Bible.. The first Muslim American police chief to take the oath on the Holy Quran
How the Bible Led Me to Islam: The Story of a Former Christian Youth Minister - Joshua Evans
How the Bible Led Me to Islam: The Story of a Former Christian Youth Minister - Joshua Evans
-
Waterfall
- Scholar
- Posts: 430
- Joined: Sat Dec 24, 2016 10:08 am
- Has thanked: 31 times
- Been thanked: 3 times
Re: Transparency and credibility of factual facts
Post #10Namaskaram...
What do we know...
https://www.youtube.com/@ShamanOaks
https://www.youtube.com/@LifeAfterLifeNDE-is1kh
Open your eyes...
https://www.peaceonearth.net/
Join the love movement...
Your friend forever
Waterfall
What do we know...
https://www.youtube.com/@ShamanOaks
https://www.youtube.com/@LifeAfterLifeNDE-is1kh
Open your eyes...
https://www.peaceonearth.net/
Join the love movement...
Your friend forever
Waterfall
Love is the salt of life. It takes a moment to understand and eternity to live.
Carsten Ploug Olsen
Carsten Ploug Olsen
