You Don't Need to Believe in the Trinity to be Saved?

[2timothy316]

"Correct view" you say. Clear this up for me. You mean one must believe in the basic belief of the trinity to be saved right?

No, I’m saying the complete opposite. I’m explicitly saying one doesn’t have to have the correct/true view of God’s nature (trinitarian or not) to be saved. I’m saying one can be wrong about the trinity and still be saved.

Is this true? One doesn't have to believe in the trinity to be saved?

[konagold3]

[Replying to 2timothy316 in post #1]
Aloha 2timothy316

You ask: Is this true? One doesn't have to believe in the trinity to be saved?

According to Luke and Matthew Jesus taught a quite different requirement for eternal life:

[Luke 10:]
25And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life:?
26He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou?
27And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.
28And he said unto him,Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.


So Jesus in his public ministry did not equate eternal life: on the ransoming of souls or upon his resurrection but upon doing what is written in the law to love God and equally important is the loving of one's neighbor as one's self.

So such was the good news taken door to door by the Apostlles that Our Father loves each of us and the Kingdom of God is within that by loving God and each other one is assured of the abundance of eternal life: and the folks heard this good news gladly!!
Also Jesus states that all the prophets HANG on these the two great commandments; they being MORE important than all the rest.

Further:

" which is the great commandment in the law?
37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38 This is the first and great commandment.
39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets." [Matthew 22]



So what was the good news taken door to door by the Apostles, was to it to fear God because every one is a sinner??

Or --

To accept the gift of the Love of Our Heavenly Father accepting that one is a child of Our Divine Parent and to love one another??

[MilesJBennell]

27And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.
28And he said unto him,Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.

So Jesus in his public ministry did not equate eternal life: on the ransoming of souls or upon his resurrection but upon doing what is written in the law to love God and equally important is the loving of one's neighbor as one's self.

If this had been intended for all people then it would have said "this do, and ye shall live" as "thou" is singular and intended only to the person he was talking to. But it is true if a person can keep this saying then one does not need "the ransoming of souls or his resurrection".

But, this saying is impossible for any normal human to keep for an entire life, therefore plan B, throw oneself on the mercy of God and the atonement of Jesus.

Luke 23:39-43 KJV

39 And one of the malefactors which were hanged railed on him, saying, If thou be Christ, save thyself and us.

40 But the other answering rebuked him, saying, Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation?

41 And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss.

42 And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.

43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise.

This 'malefactor' did not need to belive in any doctrine, only confess that he was a sinner deserving of death, and he would be in paradise with Jesus.

[2ndpillar2]

"Correct view" you say. Clear this up for me. You mean one must believe in the basic belief of the trinity to be saved right?

No, I’m saying the complete opposite. I’m explicitly saying one doesn’t have to have the correct/true view of God’s nature (trinitarian or not) to be saved. I’m saying one can be wrong about the trinity and still be saved.

Is this true? One doesn't have to believe in the trinity to be saved?

If one believes in a multiple of gods, such as in the Trinity, and takes on the mark of the beast (Constantine who established the Trinity doctrine) with two horns (Peter and Paul) like a lamb, that being Constantine and his two Christlike leaders, the foundation of his Roman Church, one must drink from the cup of God's wrath (Revelation 14:10). As for who will be "saved" as in "survive"/"escape" the "day of the LORD" (Joel 2:31-32), that would be those in Jerusalem, and on Mount Zion, which precludes most of "Christianity". They apparently will drink from the cup of God's anger.

[konagold3]

[Replying to MilesJBennell in post #3]

Aloha MilesJBennell

You write : "If this had been intended for all people then it would have said "this do, and ye shall live" as "thou" is singular and intended only to the person he was talking to."


It was asked in a public gathering and even tho it was the answer given to an individual it, of course like all Jesus' teaching, was open to those who had ears to hear to comprehend and accept.

So given that you and I are a part of the larger audience, modern recipients of this historic teaching that eternal life is attained by following those two commands; is that truth something you comprehend and accept or do you reject that truth??

For my part I accepted that a long time ago it is quite literally a foundational basic along with the teaching in Luke that 'the Kingdom of God is within' .

a teaching that reveals that any of us can have a deep and personal relationship with Our Heavenly Daddy right here in our heart mind and spirit a everyday walk and talk with God. We need not wait for the coming of the Kingdom of God for it is right here and right now!!

If Jesus had stated that it was eternal life for ONLY the Pharisee your point would be well taken.

However Jesus made no such limitation and given that the Pharisee was coming from an adversarial position to Jesus he asked this general question of attaining eternal life to trip Jesus up.

So if Jesus allows that if those commandments, to Love God and to love ones neighbor, are what is needed for an advisory of Jesus to have eternal life, is it not obvious how much more applicable and available is this teaching to the friends and followers of Jesus??

Ya know anyone can preach a religion about Jesus the real hat trick is to live the religion OF Jesus starting with that fulfilling of those two basic commands that insure eternal life the loving of God completely and loving your neighbor as your self and treating them the way you would like to be treated.

That Pharisee went on to further try to confound Jesus by asking "who is my neighbor?" and Jesus, in answer, told the tale of the Good Samaritan which to give a modern perspective if one were to substitute the word Palestinian for Samaritan it would parallel the disdain with which the Samaritans where held!!

A modern answer to that question in this image:

[MilesJBennell]

[Replying to konagold3 in post #5]

Those with ears to hear, would have understood that Jesus was talking to a lawyer, about salvation by the law, which is not possible.

Galatians 2:16 KJV

16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

As far as I know, Christianity is the only religion where salvation does not depend on our good deeds vs bad deeds. Anyone who thinks that they have done anything to deserve salvation, will not find the free gift of salvation. All other religions base salvation on works, like "that fulfilling of those two basic commands that ensure eternal life the loving of God completely and loving your neighbor as your self and treating them the way you would like to be treated", this would be an impossible task for any person who was born under the curse of original sin.

Which is not to say we should not strive to do good deeds, but recognizing that our salvation is secure by the faith of Christ, knowing that we were chosen before the foundation of the world and predestined to his glory.

Ephesians 1:3-7

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

[2timothy316]

[Replying to konagold3 in post #2]
Just so we are clear, someone doesn't have to believe that Jesus is God, because they don't believe in the trinity, and still be saved.

[TheHolyGhost]

"Correct view" you say. Clear this up for me. You mean one must believe in the basic belief of the trinity to be saved right?

No, I’m saying the complete opposite. I’m explicitly saying one doesn’t have to have the correct/true view of God’s nature (trinitarian or not) to be saved. I’m saying one can be wrong about the trinity and still be saved.

Is this true? One doesn't have to believe in the trinity to be saved?

What is the trinity and who is "us"?

And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness:

[konagold3]

[Replying to MilesJBennell in post #6]

Aloha MilesJBennell

Mahalo for the reply!!

You quote me regarding eternal life and its availability according to the statement of Jesus : "that fulfilling of those two basic commands that ensure eternal life the loving of God completely and loving your neighbor as your self and treating them the way you would like to be treated" and then you write, this would be an impossible task for any person who was born under the curse of original sin."


Well if all are born with "the curse of original sin" then this assumption of impossibility can not be correct because in response to an adversarial Pharisee, who like all suffers "the curse of original sin", Jesus affirmed that the following of these two basic and essential commands assured eternal life.


If you love God and you love your neighbor why question this assurance of the conditions required for eternal life given by a Creator Son of God?? Why refute the saying of Jesus??

If Jesus states how to have eternal life don't you want eternal life?? If so are you willing to follow Jesus instruction stated in public for all to hear and also recorded for posterity ??

Therefore belief in the Trinity, The Universal Father, The Eternal Son, and The Infinite Spirit, does not take away from the assurance of eternal life it is an addition to the spiritual/soul acquisitions experientially obtained during the mortal life as having such belief means it will not need to be experientially understood once one leaves the mortal realm.

That one might experience eternal darnation if one does not believe is a question way above my pay grade. {wink}

[2timothy316]

"Correct view" you say. Clear this up for me. You mean one must believe in the basic belief of the trinity to be saved right?

No, I’m saying the complete opposite. I’m explicitly saying one doesn’t have to have the correct/true view of God’s nature (trinitarian or not) to be saved. I’m saying one can be wrong about the trinity and still be saved.

Is this true? One doesn't have to believe in the trinity to be saved?

What is the trinity and who is "us"?

And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness:

What the trinity is isn't relevant to this thread. The question is, does one need to believe in the trinity to be saved?