The Atonement

[Revelations won]

To all true Christians there is nothing more important to our salvation than "The Atonement of Jesus Christ".

Having said that, is it not therefore extremely important to every individual to understand fully what and how the atonement works for our benefit?

What does the atonement do or does not do?

What is required on our part to receive the full benefits of the atonement?

What and when and by whom did the atonement begin?

Can anyone clearly show all scriptures pertaining to the atonement?

I look forward to hearing your "take" on this most important topic.

Kind regards,
RW

[Mae von H]

To all true Christians there is nothing more important to our salvation than "The Atonement of Jesus Christ".

Having said that, is it not therefore extremely important to every individual to understand fully what and how the atonement works for our benefit?

What does the atonement do or does not do?

What is required on our part to receive the full benefits of the atonement?

What and when and by whom did the atonement begin?

Can anyone clearly show all scriptures pertaining to the atonement?

I look forward to hearing your "take" on this most important topic.

Kind regards,
RW

Why is this important at all let alone extremely important? Did Jesus or anyone of the Bible writers say understand what and how the atonement works for out benefit is important let alone extremely important? If so, where?

What I read that is much more difficult and very extremely important and that is to DO the teachings of Jesus. But I can certainly see why it is much more pleasant to emphasize some theological matters instead of the much more challenging and unpleasant matter of forgiving those who offend you, for example. Who wouldn't prefer a sermon on how the atonement benefits you instead of you must forgive that awful neighbor who plagues you if you want to be forgiven? By all means, let us focus on theological matters and leave the actually doing the teachings of Jesus for another day, preferably far off.

[Brightfame52]

[Replying to 1213 in post #1060]

Is it possible for sinners that Christ died for, for their sins to be forgiven by God while they're in a unbelieving and rebellious state, much like as Paul was as saul persecuting the Church ? Yes or No ?

[Brightfame52]

Redeem us from unbelief/iniquity !


Titus 2:14

14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

If Christ died for anyone who doesnt eventually in this life, believe in Him, come to Live by Faith as it is written Rom 1:17

17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

And if one for whom He died to redeem ends up as one of these Jn 8:24, dying in their sins in unbelief, then that means His Blood and or Redeeming Death failed the purpose of God to redeem them from all iniquity as Per Titus 2:14

14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

14 He gave himself for us in order to rescue us from every kind of lawless behavior, and cleanse a special people for himself who are eager to do good actions.CEB

14 He gave himself for us. He died to free us from all evil. He died to make us pure—people who belong only to him and who always want to do good.ERV

For he gave himself for us all, that he might rescue us from all our evil ways and make for himself a people of his own, clean and pure, with our hearts set upon living a life that is good.

Yes, His Death was for that Purpose, for the producing the results of " redeeming us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works."

Now if just one for whom He died comese short of His death producing that result for them, the Redemption in His Blood has failed the Purpose of God for it, and whosoever teaches that one for whom Christ died, can yet die in their sins and unbelief as Per Jn 8:24

24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.,

They are teaching wilfully that Christ's Death was a failure, which makes them the servant of antichrist, teaching something that is against the success and purpose of Christ's Death for all whom He died !

[Brightfame52]

[Replying to Mae von H in post #1061]

The Atonement is extremely important, and I have been showing why, what it accomplished and for whom. Any acceptable obedience and worship to God should be from right views of what He has accomplished through Jesus Christ.

[Mae von H]

[Replying to Mae von H in post #1061]

The Atonement is extremely important, and I have been showing why, what it accomplished and for whom. Any acceptable obedience and worship to God should be from right views of what He has accomplished through Jesus Christ.

I don’t see where you showed the point where any of the Bible writers say it’s extremely important to understand how and why. You explained the atonement but not where anyone but you says it’s extremely important.

Now if you cannot guess, I disagree. I, myself, experienced forgiveness and cleansing of sin as a child. I had no understanding whatsoever about the atonement theology but I knew I was forgiven. I think that’s extremely important.

It’s like this. You tell us it’s extremely important that we understand the physiology and biochemistry of digestion in order to feed our bodies. I say it’s just important that you eat.

Jesus said this, “this is eternal life, that they know (and understand) You, the One True God,” not that they understand exactly how the atonement works.

[Brightfame52]

Redeem us from unbelief/iniquity ! 2


Now Christ's Death, the giving of Himself for all whom He gave Himself for, His Church Titus 2:14

14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

Eph 5:25

25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

So the Us in Titus 2:14 is the Church of Eph 5:25 !

This giving of Himself was for the specific of redeeming them from all iniquity !

Now lets establish that this was indeed the Purpose of it, contained in the words of phrase "that he might redeem us from all iniquity"

This phrase is subjunctive that begins with the conjunction Hina, which means:

in order that, so that.

hína (a subordinating conjunction) – for the purpose that (in order that), looking to the aim (intended result) of the verbal idea.

a prim. conjunction denoting purpose, definition or result

The word denotes purpose in the greek, so that the purpose should be fulfilled, for instance Matt 1:22

22 Now all this was done, that/hina it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying,

Matt 2:15

15 And was there until the death of Herod: that[hina] it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Out of Egypt have I called my son.

Hence, Christ gave Himself for all those He gave Himself for, that it might be fulfilled, that they are redeemed from all iniquity, and purified unto a peculiar people, zealous of good works !

The word purify in Titus 2:14 is the same greek word used in Acts 15:9

And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.

This shows, gives evidence to the fact that Faith is in the intended result of Christ's redeeming death, its not from man !

So His death is responsible in the Purpose of God to bring about these results #1 Redemption from all iniquity, #2 and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

The word peculiar periousios means:

I.that which is one's own, belonging to one's possessions

A.a people selected by God from the other nations for his own possession 28

[Brightfame52]

[Replying to Mae von H in post #1065]

Im sorry you cant see it. I can see it clearly, and Im sharing it with you

[Mae von H]

[Replying to Mae von H in post #1065]

Im sorry you cant see it. I can see it clearly, and Im sharing it with you

No, you aren’t. I asked where anyone in scripture says this knowledge is extremely important. So far no one in scripture agrees with you that completely understanding this concept is extremely important, I read obeying Jesus is extremely important. I read forgiving those who wrong you is very important. You need to find a verse saying understanding that theology is important. The thing is, one can be completely forgiven of sin, atoned for and belonging to Him, without completely understanding how the atonement works. I cannot recall a single sermon by Jesus, Paul or Peter even explaining how understanding the atonement is important.

I’m sorry you don’t see this. The thing is, one can completely understand the atonement and go to Hell. One is not saved by understanding the atonement.

[Brightfame52]

[Replying to Mae von H in post #1068]

Yes I am

[Mae von H]

[Replying to Mae von H in post #1068]

Yes I am

I guess you’ve reached the end of verbal support for your position. Moving on…