If a world religion claimed that 2000 years ago someone built a time machine, then people would fall over their own feet to constantly ask: "How excactly did this time machine work?"
But now we have in the bible a a main protagonist resurrect from being dead and no one, neither Christian nor Sceptic ever, bothers to ask:
"How exactly did Jesus resurrection happen?"
Marvel fans are known to intensively debate questions like:
"How exactly does Spidermans power of sticking to walls and ceilings work?"
But no one on earth gives a damn about how exactly worked "The Resurrection"!
My first question for debate: Why is that so
Now lets first see what "resurrection" is supposed to mean.
First: A resurrected being in the bible is not undead like Count Dracula as a Vampyre, who has no biological bodily functions anymore and is kept undead alive by magic alone.
A truly resurrected being is supposed to have regained live and full biological bodily functions out of the state of being truly dead.
And he is therefore not being kept alive by magic alone, though magic m i g h t have triggered his resurrection.
Everyone agrees that Jesus is supposed to have been "really dead" ! By current medical definition that does mean already brain dead.
This is the state anyone must reach to honestly resurrect.
For we have semi dead people waking up from clinical death all the time and no one is claiming miracle of resurrection for them.
But lets see what naturally happens after brain death:
"Decomposition (of the brain) often occurs within minutes after death, which is quicker than other body tissues, likely because the brain is about 80% water. Rotting starts in normal ambient temperature at about 3 days, and the brain is essentially vaporized within 5-10 years."
Said all that we can begin trying to find out how Jesus resurrection might have happened in detail.
Bible gives a hint by intensively implicating that Jesus resurrection was triggered by magic.
Bible explains that Jesus died sometime P.M. during first day, was dead the whole second day and resurrected on third day before daybreak.
(Lets say he was dead for somewhat 36 hours.)
Now, said all that; What is possible?
Magic, as the Great Joe Quesada stated when he destroyed the Spiderman comic series for the fans, must not be explained.
But what that magic did do can be researched.
Did magic stop Jesus brain and therefore his body too from decomposing, kept it in a somewhat timeless state and make him arise 36 hours later?
Did Jesus naturally decompose and magic made him re-decompose later to let him be able to better resurrect?
And then we have still the problem that Jesus died supposedly on the cross because fatal hurts and woundings to his body caused his heart to stop.
How therefore did his body compensate this fatal wounds, to still be able to resurrect?
I will stop here explaining, starting the debate with the second and main question:
How exactly did Jesus resurrection happen
How exactly did Jesus resurrection happen❓
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How exactly did Jesus resurrection happen❓
Post #1“If you give a man a fish, you feed him for a day. But if you drown a man in a fish pond, he will never have to go hungry again”
"Only Experts in Reformed Egyptian should be allowed to critique the Book of Mormon"
"Joseph Smith can't possibly have been a deceiver.
For if he had been, the Angel Moroni never would have taken the risk of enthrusting him with the Golden Plates"
"Only Experts in Reformed Egyptian should be allowed to critique the Book of Mormon"
"Joseph Smith can't possibly have been a deceiver.
For if he had been, the Angel Moroni never would have taken the risk of enthrusting him with the Golden Plates"
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Re: How exactly did Jesus resurrection happen❓
Post #141The most common cases of ignoring/raping bible verses are the denying of Flat Earth and Geocentrism.TRANSPONDER wrote: ↑Mon Mar 11, 2024 1:31 pm . . . you feign to ignore Bibletext that doesn't suit you.
I've said it before - Believers will even deny he Bible if it conflicts with their own opinion. That's what you are doing.
Only fringe groups dare to really believe what the bible says.
Like the 650 christians who attended the Denver Flat Earth conference 2018
https://www-denverpost-com.cdn.ampproje ... -denver%2F
“If you give a man a fish, you feed him for a day. But if you drown a man in a fish pond, he will never have to go hungry again”
"Only Experts in Reformed Egyptian should be allowed to critique the Book of Mormon"
"Joseph Smith can't possibly have been a deceiver.
For if he had been, the Angel Moroni never would have taken the risk of enthrusting him with the Golden Plates"
"Only Experts in Reformed Egyptian should be allowed to critique the Book of Mormon"
"Joseph Smith can't possibly have been a deceiver.
For if he had been, the Angel Moroni never would have taken the risk of enthrusting him with the Golden Plates"
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Re: How exactly did Jesus resurrection happen❓
Post #142More rational than to say: "But now we have in the bible a a main protagonist resurrect from being dead and no one, neither Christian nor Sceptic ever, bothers to ask:The Nice Centurion wrote: ↑Sun Dec 31, 2023 7:16 amThat is not a rational sentence.1213 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 31, 2023 6:09 amMaybe "t is not asked", because no one knows how it happened.The Nice Centurion wrote: ↑Fri Dec 29, 2023 9:51 pm ...
But now we have in the bible a a main protagonist resurrect from being dead and no one, neither Christian nor Sceptic ever, bothers to ask:
"How exactly did Jesus resurrection happen?"...
...Bible gives a hint by intensively implicating that Jesus resurrection was triggered by magic.
...
"How exactly did Jesus resurrection happen?".
I don't think your claim that it is never asked is simply not true, when you just also asked that.
Yes, it is easy to ask things that are easy to observe. The question about the resurrection is about the same as asking, how life becomes from non organic dead material. Have you seen any decent answer to that? Does it mean life can't exist, if you can't answer to that? If we can know that life is possible from death material, why would the resurrection idea be then impossible? If God can create life from dead material, there is no reason why could not restart it, after it has died. So, the question eventually goes to, how life was created or born. That life exists, threre surely is some reason how it happened, even if we don't know how.The Nice Centurion wrote: ↑Sun Dec 31, 2023 7:16 amNo one knew how to defy gravity for reaching space and yet the question was commonly asked.
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Re: How exactly did Jesus resurrection happen❓
Post #143Why should it not be rational to state that Especially since it is true Do you think its a wrong statement Why When was the last time you met someone who inquired about the details of The Resurrection1213 wrote: ↑Thu Mar 21, 2024 7:07 amMore rational than to say: "But now we have in the bible a a main protagonist resurrect from being dead and no one, neither Christian nor Sceptic ever, bothers to ask:The Nice Centurion wrote: ↑Sun Dec 31, 2023 7:16 amThat is not a rational sentence.1213 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 31, 2023 6:09 amMaybe "t is not asked", because no one knows how it happened.The Nice Centurion wrote: ↑Fri Dec 29, 2023 9:51 pm ...
But now we have in the bible a a main protagonist resurrect from being dead and no one, neither Christian nor Sceptic ever, bothers to ask:
"How exactly did Jesus resurrection happen?"...
...Bible gives a hint by intensively implicating that Jesus resurrection was triggered by magic.
...
"How exactly did Jesus resurrection happen?".
Now again, what kind of rationality can one find in THIS sentence? It is a horrible written and makes zero sense in your context.
In no way are this two questions resembling.1213 wrote: ↑Thu Mar 21, 2024 7:07 amYes, it is easy to ask things that are easy to observe. The question about the resurrection is about the same as asking, how life becomes from non organic dead material.The Nice Centurion wrote: ↑Sun Dec 31, 2023 7:16 amNo one knew how to defy gravity for reaching space and yet the question was commonly asked.
The Resurrection is supposed to have had the use of magic involved. That makes a lot of difference.
Who in the world says that the resurrection idea would be impossible Would I ask for the mechanics of The Resurrection if I wanted to ssy so1213 wrote: ↑Thu Mar 21, 2024 7:07 am Have you seen any decent answer to that? Does it mean life can't exist, if you can't answer to that? If we can know that life is possible from death material, why would the resurrection idea be then impossible? If God can create life from dead material, there is no reason why could not restart it, after it has died. So, the question eventually goes to, how life was created or born. That life exists, threre surely is some reason how it happened, even if we don't know how.
Which god are you referring to
To whichever god you are referring to; Why should that one be able to create life from death
“If you give a man a fish, you feed him for a day. But if you drown a man in a fish pond, he will never have to go hungry again”
"Only Experts in Reformed Egyptian should be allowed to critique the Book of Mormon"
"Joseph Smith can't possibly have been a deceiver.
For if he had been, the Angel Moroni never would have taken the risk of enthrusting him with the Golden Plates"
"Only Experts in Reformed Egyptian should be allowed to critique the Book of Mormon"
"Joseph Smith can't possibly have been a deceiver.
For if he had been, the Angel Moroni never would have taken the risk of enthrusting him with the Golden Plates"
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Re: How exactly did Jesus resurrection happen❓
Post #144In your opening post. But, how do you know no one else ever asks "How exactly did Jesus resurrection happen"?The Nice Centurion wrote: ↑Thu Mar 21, 2024 10:52 pm ....When was the last time you met someone who inquired about the details of The Resurrection
Sorry, if it was unclear.The Nice Centurion wrote: ↑Thu Mar 21, 2024 10:52 pmNow again, what kind of rationality can one find in THIS sentence? It is a horrible written and makes zero sense in your context.
Why do you think it needs magic? Is everything you don't understand magic?The Nice Centurion wrote: ↑Thu Mar 21, 2024 10:52 pm The Resurrection is supposed to have had the use of magic involved. That makes a lot of difference.
I think resurrection can work the same way as how life can come from dead non organic material. Do you think life began by magic?
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Re: How exactly did Jesus resurrection happen❓
Post #145It's amusing and would be bewildering (if I did not think I have sussed Theist -think) to see how the Faithful will deny any science if it conflicts with the doctrine, nut will fight for the Bible supporting science (for example, the earth is round, even if the Bible is clearly visualising a flat, scribed circle with a sky dome over it and God's throne perched on top and the celestial objects trundling around the inside, to be stopped dead if a battle is required to continue.The Nice Centurion wrote: ↑Wed Mar 20, 2024 11:02 pmThe most common cases of ignoring/raping bible verses are the denying of Flat Earth and Geocentrism.TRANSPONDER wrote: ↑Mon Mar 11, 2024 1:31 pm . . . you feign to ignore Bibletext that doesn't suit you.
I've said it before - Believers will even deny he Bible if it conflicts with their own opinion. That's what you are doing.
Only fringe groups dare to really believe what the bible says.
Like the 650 christians who attended the Denver Flat Earth conference 2018
https://www-denverpost-com.cdn.ampproje ... -denver%2F
But no, the Bible itself must be denied if a flat earth is NOT part of creationist doctrine. If it was, we'd be battling flat earthism as much as we are battling evolution -denial.
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Re: How exactly did Jesus resurrection happen❓
Post #146That is actually a fair analogy. We cannot show how the resurrection happened, nor how life began.1213 wrote: ↑Thu Mar 21, 2024 7:07 amMore rational than to say: "But now we have in the bible a a main protagonist resurrect from being dead and no one, neither Christian nor Sceptic ever, bothers to ask:The Nice Centurion wrote: ↑Sun Dec 31, 2023 7:16 amThat is not a rational sentence.1213 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 31, 2023 6:09 amMaybe "t is not asked", because no one knows how it happened.The Nice Centurion wrote: ↑Fri Dec 29, 2023 9:51 pm ...
But now we have in the bible a a main protagonist resurrect from being dead and no one, neither Christian nor Sceptic ever, bothers to ask:
"How exactly did Jesus resurrection happen?"...
...Bible gives a hint by intensively implicating that Jesus resurrection was triggered by magic.
...
"How exactly did Jesus resurrection happen?".
I don't think your claim that it is never asked is simply not true, when you just also asked that.
Yes, it is easy to ask things that are easy to observe. The question about the resurrection is about the same as asking, how life becomes from non organic dead material. Have you seen any decent answer to that? Does it mean life can't exist, if you can't answer to that? If we can know that life is possible from death material, why would the resurrection idea be then impossible? If God can create life from dead material, there is no reason why could not restart it, after it has died. So, the question eventually goes to, how life was created or born. That life exists, threre surely is some reason how it happened, even if we don't know how.The Nice Centurion wrote: ↑Sun Dec 31, 2023 7:16 amNo one knew how to defy gravity for reaching space and yet the question was commonly asked.
But we have evidence that the resurrection happened (however) because it's in the Bible. We have evidence that evolution happened (not one week of creation) in hard fossil evidence, not just written claims.
But also there is a hypothetical mechanism for abiogenesis, while the mechanism for the resurrection is 'it happened'. Same with Life. Creationism has no mechanism, but just God dunnit.
And worse, even if a god started Life, it doesn't tell us which god it was, but if the Biblical contradictions show that the resurrection did not in fact happen (and it demonstrably does) then the specific God and religion fail, totally.
I'd say, you have lost on points there and the attempt to play the "My theory is as good as yours" card failed.
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Re: How exactly did Jesus resurrection happen❓
Post #147No. Logically and scientifically, everything we don't understand has a natural and scientific explanation, even if we don't know what it is. It is Theist - think that uses Unklnowns as gaps for God by appealing to magic (goddunnit miracles). Thank you for showing that you logically know this very well but Theist - think prevents you from recognising it, just as it prevents you from seeing the failure of Faith in the Bible as printed, never mind the one in your head, and the validated evidence of science, on the miserable excuse that it doesn't happen before our eyes.1213 wrote: ↑Fri Mar 22, 2024 1:58 amIn your opening post. But, how do you know no one else ever asks "How exactly did Jesus resurrection happen"?The Nice Centurion wrote: ↑Thu Mar 21, 2024 10:52 pm ....When was the last time you met someone who inquired about the details of The Resurrection
Sorry, if it was unclear.The Nice Centurion wrote: ↑Thu Mar 21, 2024 10:52 pmNow again, what kind of rationality can one find in THIS sentence? It is a horrible written and makes zero sense in your context.
Why do you think it needs magic? Is everything you don't understand magic?The Nice Centurion wrote: ↑Thu Mar 21, 2024 10:52 pm The Resurrection is supposed to have had the use of magic involved. That makes a lot of difference.
I think resurrection can work the same way as how life can come from dead non organic material. Do you think life began by magic?
I have said it before, that understanding the Bible is done (though I do find out new things) and it is theist - thinking that is the study, though I think I have sussed a lot of that, too. It is why Bible fiddlers think they can fool me, but I see the whole picture, and they don't.
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Re: How exactly did Jesus resurrection happen❓
Post #148My Opening Post1213 wrote: ↑Fri Mar 22, 2024 1:58 amIn your opening post.The Nice Centurion wrote: ↑Thu Mar 21, 2024 10:52 pm ....When was the last time you met someone who inquired about the details of The Resurrection
Now you are gaming with words just to escape a debate about THE MECHANICS OF THE RESURRECTION
1) I talked to many people and also studied every Pro and Contra about The Resurrection.
From Celsus to Simon Greenleaf, from Bart Ehrman to Richard Carrier, from C.S.Lewis to Richard Bauckham, William Lane Craig to Lee Strobel and so on . . .
ALWAYS them are avoiding The Mechanics of The Ressurection like Plague
2) Look at this very thread; Page XXX already and everyone here does anything to not have to argue about The Mechanics of the Resurrection
I reread and unnerstand now.1213 wrote: ↑Thu Mar 21, 2024 7:07 amSorry, if it was unclear.The Nice Centurion wrote: ↑Thu Mar 21, 2024 10:52 pm Now again, what kind of rationality can one find in THIS sentence? It is a horrible written and makes zero sense in your context.
No! I tend to not always unnerstand what you write, but never think your posts are magical!1213 wrote: ↑Thu Mar 21, 2024 7:07 amWhy do you think it needs magic? Is everything you don't understand magic?The Nice Centurion wrote: ↑Thu Mar 21, 2024 10:52 pm The Resurrection is supposed to have had the use of magic involved. That makes a lot of difference.
Creationists believe that live began by magicThe Nice Centurion wrote: ↑Thu Mar 21, 2024 10:52 pm I think resurrection can work the same way as how life can come from dead non organic material. Do you think life began by magic?
“If you give a man a fish, you feed him for a day. But if you drown a man in a fish pond, he will never have to go hungry again”
"Only Experts in Reformed Egyptian should be allowed to critique the Book of Mormon"
"Joseph Smith can't possibly have been a deceiver.
For if he had been, the Angel Moroni never would have taken the risk of enthrusting him with the Golden Plates"
"Only Experts in Reformed Egyptian should be allowed to critique the Book of Mormon"
"Joseph Smith can't possibly have been a deceiver.
For if he had been, the Angel Moroni never would have taken the risk of enthrusting him with the Golden Plates"
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Re: How exactly did Jesus resurrection happen❓
Post #149Indeed. Anyone who thinks a god created life is appealing to a miracle; magic. It needs no mechanism. Abiogenesis proposesone, even if it hasn't been proven or validated. I may never be. But it is at least a proposed mechanism, not magic.
The resurrection is also a miracle; magic, so I also avoid like the plague any discussion of what happens when you wave a magic wand (apart from the director says 'cut' and the cgi wizards insert the effects). It strikes me as no more than an unfair manoeuvre to put the believers on the spot. There is no way they could explain the unexplainable. Bible critics should not do it. The mechanics of that proposed three days, however, is fair game as (miracles apart) what is coherent and feasible is open to discussion.
The resurrection is also a miracle; magic, so I also avoid like the plague any discussion of what happens when you wave a magic wand (apart from the director says 'cut' and the cgi wizards insert the effects). It strikes me as no more than an unfair manoeuvre to put the believers on the spot. There is no way they could explain the unexplainable. Bible critics should not do it. The mechanics of that proposed three days, however, is fair game as (miracles apart) what is coherent and feasible is open to discussion.
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Re: How exactly did Jesus resurrection happen❓
Post #150But, you have not talked with every possible person in all times. That is why I think it is baseless to say you know that no one ever has talked about it.The Nice Centurion wrote: ↑Sat Mar 23, 2024 1:00 pm ...
1) I talked to many people and also studied every Pro and Contra about The Resurrection.
From Celsus to Simon Greenleaf, from Bart Ehrman to Richard Carrier, from C.S.Lewis to Richard Bauckham, William Lane Craig to Lee Strobel and so on . . .
ALWAYS them are avoiding The Mechanics of The Ressurection like Plague
2) Look at this very thread; Page XXX already and everyone here does anything to not have to argue about The Mechanics of the Resurrection...
Thanks!
I don't believe in magic. And I don't think God used magic.