Luke 6:22-23: Does this give license for Christians to be jerks?

[boatsnguitars]

Luke 6:22-23:

“Blessed are you when people hate you, when they exclude you and insult you and reject your name as evil, because of the Son of Man. Rejoice in that day and leap for joy, because great is your reward in heaven. For that is how their ancestors treated the prophets.”

The verse makes it clear that Christians will be hated and excluded because they will be associated with Evil - because of Jesus.

Christians might say, "Yes, associated with Evil, but we're the good guys!" But, Jesus must have known his ideas were hateful. He must have known he was preaching hate, or why think his followers would be hated?

Let's see why Christians are considered Evil.
Biblical Teachings:
Interpretations of certain biblical passages, contribute to perceptions of exclusivity and judgmental attitudes, leading to vilification.

Leviticus 18:22 and 20:13 (Homosexuality):
These passages contain prohibitions against homosexual behavior and are often cited in discussions about LGBTQ+ rights. Some verses that contribute to discrimination and exclusion:

1 Timothy 2:11-15 (Women's Roles):
This passage addresses the role of women in the church and has been a source of controversy, with debates over whether it supports or restricts women's leadership roles within religious institutions.

Deuteronomy 22:28-29 (Rape and Marriage):
Critics may point to this passage as problematic due to its prescription for a rapist to marry their victim, raising ethical concerns about the treatment of survivors and the endorsement of such practices.

Psalm 137:9 ("Babylonian Babies" verse):
This verse, which speaks of dashing Babylonian infants against rocks, is sometimes cited to highlight the apparent brutality in certain Old Testament passages, leading to questions about the morality of such narratives.

Exodus 21:20-21 (Treatment of Slaves):
Passages discussing the treatment of slaves in the Old Testament have been criticized for not explicitly condemning slavery and, in some cases, appearing to regulate it.

Matthew 10:34-36 (Division):
This passage, where Jesus speaks about bringing a sword and division, can be controversial when interpreted as promoting conflict, particularly when applied to interfaith or intra-faith relations.

Ephesians 6:5-9 (Slavery and Masters):
Similar to Old Testament passages, New Testament verses that seem to regulate the relationship between slaves and masters have been criticized for not outright condemning slavery.

Numbers 31:17-18 (Treatment of Midianite Women):
This passage describes the killing of male children and the sparing of female children during warfare, which raises moral questions and concerns about the treatment of non-combatant populations.

Genesis 19:1-11 (Sodom and Gomorrah):
This passage is often cited in discussions about the sin of Sodom and Gomorrah, contributing to debates around the Bible's stance on homosexuality.

Historical Ecclesiastical Misconduct:
Instances of historical misconduct by the Church, including the Crusades, the Inquisition, and the clergy abuse scandals, have left lasting negative impressions on public perception.
Did Jesus prophesize this, yet say nothing to his followers to avoid it?

Resistance to Social Change:
Resistance or perceived resistance to social and cultural changes, led to criticism and vilification.

Civil Rights Movement:
Many Christian groups resisted the Civil Rights Movement, particularly during the mid-20th century. Some argued against desegregation and equal rights for African Americans based on perceived biblical justifications. The Christians arguing for desegregation were often Black, or Liberal (traditionally vilified by the Church).

Women's Liberation Movement:
Christian denominations have resisted aspects of the women's liberation movement, opposing women's rights, gender equality, and the expansion of roles for women in the church and society.

Reproductive Rights:
Christians, particularly within conservative branches of the faith, have traditionally resisted changes related to reproductive rights, such as access to contraception, abortion rights, and comprehensive sex education. (By Consrevative, we usually mean non-Liberal, non-luke warm Christians who adhere to every jot and tittle of the Bible).

LGBTQ+ Rights:
Most Christian denominations and groups have resisted advancements in LGBTQ+ rights, including marriage equality and protections against discrimination, often citing scriptural interpretations that view homosexuality as incompatible with

Scientific Advancements:
Throughout history, some Christians resisted certain scientific advancements that challenged traditional theological views, such as the heliocentric model of the solar system, the theory of evolution, and more recent debates over issues like climate change.

End-of-Life Issues:
Christians, particularly those in conservative circles, have sometimes resisted changes related to end-of-life issues, such as assisted suicide and euthanasia, based on ethical considerations rooted in religious beliefs.

Secularization and Separation of Church and State:
Many Christians have resisted secularization trends and the separation of church and state, advocating for a more direct influence of religious values on governance and public policies.

Cultural Changes:
Christians have, at times, resisted broader cultural changes that are perceived as contrary to traditional values, including shifts in entertainment, fashion, and popular culture.

Environmental Stewardship:
While many Christian groups emphasize the importance of environmental stewardship, there have been instances where resistance to certain environmental policies stems from concerns about economic impact or conflicting interpretations of biblical teachings on human dominion.

Interfaith Dialogue and Cooperation:
Many Christians have resisted efforts towards interfaith dialogue and cooperation, particularly with religions that have historically been viewed as competitors or adversaries.

Dogmatism and Intolerance:
The perception of dogmatism and intolerance towards differing beliefs or lifestyles can contribute to the vilification of Christianity. After all, one of the worst things you can do as a Christian is be tolerant of things you call sin, and to waver in your strong, Christian faith.

Missionary Activities and Cultural Imperialism:
Criticisms of missionary activities and perceptions of cultural imperialism contribute to the vilification of Christianity, especially in the context of colonial history.

Sexual Morality Debates:
Debates around sexual morality, including issues like abortion and contraception, may lead to vilification when Christian perspectives clash with broader societal views.

Political Activism:
Involvement in political activism, particularly when aligned with specific controversial policies or candidates, lead to polarization and criticism.

Proselytization Efforts:
Aggressive or perceived aggressive proselytization efforts are viewed negatively, leading to criticism and vilification.

Cultural Insensitivity:
Instances of cultural insensitivity, where Christian practices clash with or dismiss local customs, contribute to negative perceptions.

Hypocrisy:
Publicized instances of hypocrisy among prominent Christian figures or institutions can undermine the credibility of the faith and lead to vilification.

Religious Exclusivity:
Belief in the exclusivity of salvation through Christianity is viewed as intolerant, contributing to negative perceptions of the faith.


Now, I'm sure someone will shrug and say, "Well, that's all humanity! Other groups are just as bad!"

Maybe, but they also don't have a passage in their Holy Text that gives them license to be hated and then say that you'll be rewarded for it...

So, why are Christians vilified?

[Clownboat]

...You are an atheist when it comes to all the available gods, less one. An atheist shares your position, they just take it one god further. How did you go about proving the other gods are not real? Isn't it foolish to claim they don't exist if you can't prove it?

I don't claim the other gods don't exist.

Strawman as I did not say that you claimed that other gods don't exist. I claimed that you are atheistic (lack belief) towards all the available god concepts, less one. My claim is true and you failed to address it. It's truly amazing to me just how much in common all believers in all the gods have with atheists. In a sense, believers are 99% atheist and 1% whatever religion they apply faith in.

Then I noted that you can still believe in your preferred god via faith, which is ironically the same mechanism used for believers of the god concepts that you reject. Isn't it odd that faith can be used to justify your preferred god, but then faith is not good enough when believers in other god concepts apply it to justify their own preferred god concept?

[JehovahsWitness]

Historical Ecclesiastical Misconduct:
Instances of historical misconduct by the Church, including the Crusades, the Inquisition, and the clergy abuse scandals, have left lasting negative impressions on public perception.
Did Jesus prophesize this...?

Emphasis MINE

Yes, Jesus foretold there would indeed be those that claimed to be his followers but whose conduct did not reflect his teachings. Note the following

MATTHEW 7:15-23


15 “Be on the watch for the false prophets+ who come to you in sheep’s covering,+ but inside they are ravenous wolves.+ 16 By their fruits you will recognize them. Never do people gather grapes from thorns or figs from thistles, do they?+ 17 Likewise, every good tree produces fine fruit, but every rotten tree produces worthless fruit.+ 18 A good tree cannot bear worthless fruit, nor can a rotten tree produce fine fruit.+ 19 Every tree not producing fine fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.+ 20 Really, then, by their fruits you will recognize those men.+

21 “Not everyone saying to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the Kingdom of the heavens, but only the one doing the will of my Father who is in the heavens will.+ 22 Many will say to me in that day: ‘Lord, Lord,+ did we not prophesy in your name, and expel demons in your name, and perform many powerful works* in your name?’+ 23 And then I will declare to them: ‘I never knew* you! Get away from me, you workers of lawlessness!’

Did Jesus ... say nothing to his followers to avoid it??

Emphasis MINE


Jesus did say his followers should avoid the above . Note the following ...

MATTHEW 7:24

“Therefore, everyone who hears these sayings of mine and does them will be like a discreet man who built his house on the rock"

JOHN 8:31

Then Jesus went on to say to the Jews who had believed him: “If you remain in my word, you are really my disciples

....

But, just because he predicted this, doesn't absolve the Church of it. ...

Agreed. They should be held accountable for their actions and if human authorities fail to deal with them, I believe God will judge them in his own good time!

[TRANSPONDER]

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #32]There's the problem. Never mind a claimed god. That you accept the validity of mundane accountability is good enough.

But first religious privilege, right to secrecy and overriding authority has to end. And tax free profits, too.

[TRANSPONDER]

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #32]There's the problem. Never mind a claimed god. That you accept the validity of mundane accountability is good enough.

But first religious privilege, right to secrecy and overriding authority has to end. And tax free profits, too.

[boatsnguitars]

Agreed.

Justice delayed is justice denied. I have to wonder why the members of the Church are more forceful in policing their own? It appears Chrisitans are happy to let the Fred Phelps of the world carry on their hatred, or turn a blind eye to rape of children - then protest Disney movies.

It's remarkable that Christians can say, "By their fruits you shall know them." Then excuse all kinds of behavior and focus their hatred and rage on otherwise good atheists or non-Christians.

Meanwhile, they want people to become Christian - but why would an atheist want to become a Christian if it means hating gay people, calling people "fools," allowing child rape, etc.

So, the non-Christians decide to avoid this Church of Hate (Christianity) - avoid converting to Christianity and risk their immortal soul because Christians aren't willing to make their Organization something nice to be part of - which is opposite to the calling of Jesus to convert people to Christianity.

Now, you'll claim you are part of a Good Church - yet, are you? How many times have you protested a Hate Church? How many Christians have you told to stop being jerks? How many Christians have you told they are doing Christianity wrong?

[1213]

...You are an atheist when it comes to all the available gods, less one. An atheist shares your position, they just take it one god further. How did you go about proving the other gods are not real? Isn't it foolish to claim they don't exist if you can't prove it?

I don't claim the other gods don't exist.

Strawman as I did not say that you claimed that other gods don't exist....

In more civilized era an atheist meant a person who denies the existence of gods. And I think this was about, do I say about any God that they don't exist.

But, ok, I don't think I am an atheist towards any god, I don't say I don't believe they exist, I think it is possible they exist or have existed. I just wouldn't keep them as my god anyway.

[1213]

But do you believe they do exist?...

I think it is possible they exist or have existed. I have no reason to say I believe so, nor that I don't believe so.

[JehovahsWitness]

Now, you'll claim you are part of a Good Church - yet, are you? How many times have you protested a Hate Church? How many Christians have you told to stop being jerks? How many Christians have you told they are doing Christianity wrong?

Well , we Jehovah's Witnesses try and be a little more diplomatic in what terms we use but yes, we take the "bull by its horns" and go personally from door to door and tell people where their churches have failed them and what to do about it.

Like most Witnesses I have spoken over the course of my 50 years or more doing this to many of thousands of people. We also have public stands, leaflets, letter writing compaigns , magazines and a religious website.

When it comes to showing people where they are going wrong and helping them change, I can confidently say, no modern day religious group has done more.


JEHOVAH'S WITNESS

[Data]

Now, you'll claim you are part of a Good Church - yet, are you? How many times have you protested a Hate Church? How many Christians have you told to stop being jerks? How many Christians have you told they are doing Christianity wrong?

Well , we Jehovah's Witnesses try and be a little more diplomatic in what terms we use but yes, we take the "bull by its horns" and go personally from door to door and tell people where their churches have failed them and what to do about it.

Like most Witnesses I have spoken over the course of my 50 years or more doing this to many of thousands of people. We also have public stands, leaflets, letter writing compaigns , magazines and a religious website.

When it comes to showing people where they are going wrong and helping them change, I can confidently say, no modern day religious group has done more.

While your organization itself is failing the same way. (Source Wikipedia) For example, you would, and have, labeled me personally as an "apostate" and stated you don't talk to apostates. Okay, apostate from what? The JW organization. The courtesy you go from door to door extending to people is a hypocrisy. You ask people to examine more closely their beliefs or lack thereof but if you do that yourself you know you will be shunned by the organization that isolated you from receiving such a courtesy thus preventing you from doing it yourself. If you do that you will likely lose all your family and friends. If the Watchtower organization had been in the time of the prophets of old, they would be the ones persecuting the prophets, not the prophets themselves.

[Masterblaster]

Hello Clownboat

"Clownboat wrote: .."You are an atheist when it comes to all the available gods, less one. An atheist shares your position, they just take it one god further. How did you go about proving the other gods are not real? Isn't it foolish to claim they don't exist if you can't prove it?"
------

The question is "The validity of Theism". Do you think belief in any God is ' valid', Clownboat?
Please explain your answer.