Countless Claims to "Answered" Prayer(s)

[POI]

We have countless claims, from Christians, to God/Jesus answering prayers for healing to human affliction(s). And by 'answered' prayer, I mean God/Jesus states -- (yes, I will grant you this prayer request to remove the human affliction).

For Debate:

1. Does God "answer" any of these prayer requests? If not, why?
2. If so, why does God/Jesus perpetually skip the following afflictions (amyotrophic lateral sclerosis, cerebral palsy, dementia, diabetes mellites 1, amputation, muscular dystrophy, hunington's disease, epilepsy, parkinson's disease, paget's disease, motor neuron disease, and so on)?

[POI]

[Replying to brunumb in post #43]

That looks like a Gocha to me.

The entire thread is essentially a 'gotcha'. This is why theists avoid this thread like the plague.

Our pal 1213 however, has persistence that should earn reword, but I doubt that it will

Oh, but I did address your question. You asked:

How do you know i don't have any of those because of prayer?

And I answered:

None of the above are deemed curable, prayer or no prayer.
...

Sorry, that does not answer the question, how do you know it. You just give a statement and expect everyone to believe it.

Because no credible evidence has been presented to show that any such serious physical problems can be cured by prayer.If that were so, all armies, industrial companies and hospitals would have teams of Christians praying over accident victims. They don't, because they know (as Christians do) that it doesn't really work.

Matthew 6.27.And who of you by worrying and being anxious can add one unit of measure (cubit) to his stature or to the span of his life? It isn't by praying that one could do it, but that the idea isn't considered (other than it might have occasioned the last bit later on(1),suggests that Christians then as now, know that prayer doesn't do things other than sometimes happens normally and naturally.

(1) and I had to check Luke 12 25 And which of you with taking thought can add to his stature one cubit? which being Q sayings is Sermon material but later on after Jesus departs for Jerusalem. I predict it isn't in Mark.

Please note where this thread was born. It sparked from post 77 of (viewtopic.php?f=8&t=40541&start=70). The argument is as follows....

If the Christian admits a (p)ostmortem (p)rayer-answering (J)esus exists, or a PPJ for short, then we would see answered prayer in the following listed conditions within the OP. But we do not. Hence, it's safe to conclude a PPJ does not exist. This is when the interlocutor aborted, in post 101. So yea, though I too admire 1213's persistence, (s)he is offering little else but apologetics 101.

[TRANSPONDER]

However the argument developed from the OP (they can stray quite a bit) apologetics, which is to say excuses, is what we get in the end, though we may get attempts to play anecdotal healing claims.

[1213]

...
Because no credible evidence has been presented to show that any such serious physical problems can be cured by prayer.If that were so, all armies, industrial companies and hospitals would have teams of Christians praying over accident victims. They don't, because they know (as Christians do) that it doesn't really work...

Righteous people also pray that firstly things go by God's will, not by theirs. This means, everything doesn't always happen the way humans expect.

But, I trust that in the end everyone will see what was the truth. And I understand if you don't believe now. It is not a problem for me.

[1213]

...
Our database of knowledge, information and facts is the best model we can make that fits what we see of reality, present, past and anticipated future. We can predict an eclipse 1000 years in the future. This is not 1000% certain; a giant comet may smash into the sun and render all predictions moot. We can suppose our car will start and our house will not fall down. This is not Faith, but understanding how things work, and that we know mechanics keep employed makes nonsense of 'Faith' your car will start' argument.

Similarly, we try to create models of the past, interpreting Caesar's records, the Battle of Kadesh and even Sumerian stories as best we can in hopes that we aren't being fed too much political spin.

This is not Faith. Faith is (or should be) used for crediting claims without sufficient evidential and logical reason, never mind asserting as life - changing beliefs despite sound counter - evidence.

One must have lot of faith in you, to believe what you say.

I think it is interesting when people have so much faith in their ability to know and understand that they don't see that it is based on trust (faith) to themselves.

[1213]

Sorry, that does not answer the question, how do you know it. You just give a statement and expect everyone to believe it.

I did no such thing. You know the answer is sound and you are attempting to wiggle your way out. Requests to remove amyotrophic lateral sclerosis, cerebral palsy, dementia, diabetes mellites 1, amputation, muscular dystrophy, hunington's disease, epilepsy, parkinson's disease, paget's disease, motor neuron disease, and so on, are perpetually skipped. This is because God is not there to answer prayer requests. The people born with, or later who develop these conditions/afflictions, will also die with these conditions/afflictions, unremoved. Why? Because God is not there to resolved these requests.

To me that is like blind man saying, world doesn't exist, because I don't see it.

[TRANSPONDER]

...
Because no credible evidence has been presented to show that any such serious physical problems can be cured by prayer.If that were so, all armies, industrial companies and hospitals would have teams of Christians praying over accident victims. They don't, because they know (as Christians do) that it doesn't really work...

Righteous people also pray that firstly things go by God's will, not by theirs. This means, everything doesn't always happen the way humans expect.

But, I trust that in the end everyone will see what was the truth. And I understand if you don't believe now. It is not a problem for me.

Your concern is irrelevant. As I've said to others, it isn't all about you. You don't get to win the argument by reversing the burden of proof and refusing to listen. My case (not myself) wins by making a case that looks to be the better one to any browser with an open mind.

They will see (If I point it out - such things may have to be pointed out as we don't teach critical thinking) that your excuse can also mean things happen without a god controlling them, not because a god controls them in ways you didn't expect.

I trust (or hope) too that in time people will come to see what looks more true - that the Bible is a lot of tall tales, Christianity is false and no god appears to be in charge of anything.

[TRANSPONDER]

Sorry, that does not answer the question, how do you know it. You just give a statement and expect everyone to believe it.

I did no such thing. You know the answer is sound and you are attempting to wiggle your way out. Requests to remove amyotrophic lateral sclerosis, cerebral palsy, dementia, diabetes mellites 1, amputation, muscular dystrophy, hunington's disease, epilepsy, parkinson's disease, paget's disease, motor neuron disease, and so on, are perpetually skipped. This is because God is not there to answer prayer requests. The people born with, or later who develop these conditions/afflictions, will also die with these conditions/afflictions, unremoved. Why? Because God is not there to resolved these requests.

To me that is like blind man saying, world doesn't exist, because I don't see it.

No. That is like a man with vision saying 'I do not see this dragon in your garage you keep saying is there'.

The illogic is of course the old one The 'they denied powered flight' fallacy. It is equating with the world we know exists, a result (answered prayer) we don't know is real. It goes like this: 'The man who denied stuff because he can't see it looks silly; now, you don't want to look silly, do you? So you had better accept my claim about what is not visible."

That's where your analogy fails, and so does your argument, case and claim that prayer does work.

...
Our database of knowledge, information and facts is the best model we can make that fits what we see of reality, present, past and anticipated future. We can predict an eclipse 1000 years in the future. This is not 1000% certain; a giant comet may smash into the sun and render all predictions moot. We can suppose our car will start and our house will not fall down. This is not Faith, but understanding how things work, and that we know mechanics keep employed makes nonsense of 'Faith' your car will start' argument.

Similarly, we try to create models of the past, interpreting Caesar's records, the Battle of Kadesh and even Sumerian stories as best we can in hopes that we aren't being fed too much political spin.

This is not Faith. Faith is (or should be) used for crediting claims without sufficient evidential and logical reason, never mind asserting as life - changing beliefs despite sound counter - evidence.

One must have lot of faith in you, to believe what you say.

I think it is interesting when people have so much faith in their ability to know and understand that they don't see that it is based on trust (faith) to themselves.

We all have to make reasoning choices about what they believe. It is no more about trusting my own self than your beliefs are about trusting your own self. Except i think I am more ready to follow the evidence, whereas you are more ready to dismiss evidence if it doesn't fit your personal beliefs.

[POI]

To me that is like blind man saying, world doesn't exist, because I don't see it.

Hmm... So God sometimes does answer prayers to remove afflictions -- which some are born with, or some others later develop, like myotrophic lateral sclerosis, cerebral palsy, dementia, diabetes mellites 1, amputation, muscular dystrophy, hunington's disease, epilepsy, parkinson's disease, paget's disease, motor neuron disease, downs syndrome, and so on? If so, can you provide demonstrable examples for this poor old blind man?

[1213]

To me that is like blind man saying, world doesn't exist, because I don't see it.

Hmm... So God sometimes does answer prayers to remove afflictions -- which some are born with, or some others later develop, like myotrophic lateral sclerosis, cerebral palsy, dementia, diabetes mellites 1, amputation, muscular dystrophy, hunington's disease, epilepsy, parkinson's disease, paget's disease, motor neuron disease, downs syndrome, and so on? If so, can you provide demonstrable examples for this poor old blind man?

For example it is said:

And Jesus went around all Galilee teaching in their synagogues and proclaiming the gospel of the kingdom, and healing every disease and every one of the illnesses among the people. And the report of Him went out into all Syria. And they brought to Him all the ones having illness, suffering various diseases and torments, also those having been demon-possessed, and those having been moonstruck, and paralytics; and He healed them.
Matt. 4:23-24

I understand that you don't believe that really happened. But, it is said that they got healed. And there seems to be disease similar to what you list. Now the problem is, how to prove it really happened. I don't have any means to prove it. But, neither you can prove it didn't happen. This is why it is possible it happened. And this means, I don't think honest person can then say God never answers such prayers.

[1213]

...The illogic is of course the old one The 'they denied powered flight' fallacy. It is equating with the world we know exists, a result (answered prayer) we don't know is real. It goes like this: 'The man who denied stuff because he can't see it looks silly; now, you don't want to look silly, do you? So you had better accept my claim about what is not visible."

I don't say people must accept anything without seeing. My point is, people should not accept anything just because someone doesn't see.