Paradise on Earth

[onewithhim]

When I learned that the Bible speaks of a restored Garden of Eden and the restoration of mankind to the perfection and endless life that Adam forfeited, I was thrilled. Who doesn't want to keep living on this beautiful earth, with our loved ones, and being able to do all the things we love to do---endlessly?

If God said to you today, "When do you want to die?" would you say "now!!"? I don't think very many people would say that.

We CAN live forever here on Earth. The Bible tells us that we can.

Matthew 5:5
Psalm 37:9-11,29

[tam]

Peace to you,

Peace to you,

He does not give His inheritance to His brothers and sisters; He SHARES it WITH us.

How do you share everlasting life?

What would half of everlasting be?

I do not understand the question.

Half of everlasting life (infinity) is still everlasting life (infinity). I literally just googled it and that is the answer. So even mathematically, giving everlasting life to someone else just means you both have everlasting life.

Correct, everlasting life is a gift, not a sharing as your claimed earlier.

1 - Either way, Christ did not have to forsake eternal life in order to give or share it with others.

2 - The inheritance I mentioned that Christ shares with His brothers/His Bride is the Kingdom and reigning with Him IN that Kingdom. Co-heirs with Christ. (Romans 8:17) Reign WITH Him for a thousand years. (2Timothy 2:12; Rev 20:6)

Christ is Himself the LIFE. Eternal life is a gift from God through His Son (the LIFE). Christ said Himself that in order for us to have eternal life we must eat and drink from Him. (John 6) He is the Life, the Tree of Life from whom we must eat in order to live forever. The tree doesn't wither and die just because someone eats from it, myth-one. It is the source from whom we must eat and drink, in order to live forever.

Where or how did the man Jesus obtain access to the everlasting life which He gives to believers?

He IS the Life, myth-one.

"I am the Way, the Truth, and the LIFE." John 14:6

"I am the Resurrection and the LIFE." John 11:25

The Son may give life just as the Father gives life:

"For just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, even so the Son gives life to whom he is pleased to give it." John 5:21

"For you granted him authority over all people that he might give eternal life to all those you have given him." John 17:2

See also:

Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day. John 6:54

He is the One from whom we must eat in order to live forever. He is the True Manna from heaven. He is the Tree of Life.


"And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that I shall lose none of those He has given Me, but raise them up at the last day." John 6:39

How can Christ raise them up at the last day if He is not alive to do so?

You seem to be speaking of Christ and the Word as if they are two different people, as if Christ is not the Word. If so I do not understand why some of you are doing this.

Because that's the only way it can be.

Have you not considered that instead there is a flaw in your reasoning?

Look at all those quotes from Him in the last post. He - Christ Jaheshua - existed before He (Christ/the Word) became flesh.

He is the Word. He - as the Word - became flesh for a little while.

Same person.

If the Word could do the same things as Jesus Christ, there would have been no cause to make Jesus Christ![/color]

Again, same person, just a different body. And again, look at HIS words on the matter.



Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

[myth-one.com]

Christ did not have to forsake eternal life in order to give or share it with others.

You have claimed that everlasting life was shared by Christ, then also claimed that He gave it as a gift. Then you claimed:

Either way, Christ did not have to forsake eternal life in order to give or share it with others.

It's a gift, and yes, a gift is given away. So Jesus could not give away His inheritance of everlasting life and also keep it.

For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. (Romans 6:23)

And once given, no one can take everlasting life back, including God.

Christ is Himself the LIFE.

Are you claiming that Jesus was born with everlasting life?

You seem to be speaking of Christ and the Word as if they are two different people, as if Christ is not the Word. If so I do not understand why some of you are doing this.

Because that's the only way it can be.

Have you not considered that instead there is a flaw in your reasoning?

Sure. But neither of us have found any evidence of that flaw.

He - Christ Jaheshua - existed before He (Christ/the Word) became flesh.

So the Word made flesh (Jesus) existed before the Word made flesh (Jesus).

What kind of logic is that?

If the Word could do the same things as Jesus Christ, there would have been no cause to make Jesus Christ! The Word could have fixed the fault in the first covenant.

Again, same person, just a different body.

If there are only two type of bodies, and the Word has a spiritual body and Jesus has a natural body, then they are two separate different beings!

[tam]

Peace to you,

Christ did not have to forsake eternal life in order to give or share it with others.

You have claimed that everlasting life was shared by Christ, then also claimed that He gave it as a gift. Then you claimed:

I stated the inheritance that Christ shared with His Bride is for the Kingdom. (supporting verses in previous posts).

I stated that eternal life is a gift. One that we receive from God through Christ. I stated (really just repeated Christ's own words) that Christ is Himself the Life. He is the One from whom we must eat in order to live forever. He doesn't have to give up His own eternal life in order for us to receive eternal life from Him.

Think about the fish and the loaves. Were the fish and the loaves enough to feed the entire crowd even though there were only a few fish and loaves to begin with? Didn't they even have more left over when they were done?

Either way, Christ did not have to forsake eternal life in order to give or share it with others.

It's a gift, and yes, a gift is given away. So Jesus could not give away His inheritance of everlasting life and also keep it.

See above.

For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. (Romans 6:23)

Yes... meaning eternal life comes from God through the Son. Absolutely nothing in that verse states that Christ must forsake eternal life in order to be able to give life - even eternal life - to others.

Christ is Himself the LIFE.

Are you claiming that Jesus was born with everlasting life?

I am claiming exactly what He said. He IS the Life.

Did He not call Lazarus out of his grave? That was not an example of eternal life, but it is an example of what He does: gives life.

You seem to be speaking of Christ and the Word as if they are two different people, as if Christ is not the Word. If so I do not understand why some of you are doing this.

Because that's the only way it can be.

Have you not considered that instead there is a flaw in your reasoning?

Sure. But neither of us have found any evidence of that flaw.

Your conclusions are in error, so there must be a flaw in your reasoning. Here you say it can ONLY be that Christ and the Word are two separate beings, but that goes against things that Christ said Himself. Did you READ His words on the matter?

He - Christ Jaheshua - existed before He (Christ/the Word) became flesh.

So the Word made flesh (Jesus) existed before the Word made flesh (Jesus).

What kind of logic is that?

He existed AS the Word before He (Christ/the Word) became flesh.

Why can you not see that He is the same person, just in a different body?

If the Word could do the same things as Jesus Christ, there would have been no cause to make Jesus Christ! The Word could have fixed the fault in the first covenant.

Reword that:

If Christ could have done what He was sent to do in His spiritual body, then there would have been no need for Him to take on a physical body.

Taking JUST that sentence, why would you ever come to the conclusion that He was a different person before becoming flesh?

Again, same person, just a different body.

If there are only two type of bodies, and the Word has a spiritual body and Jesus has a natural body, then they are two separate different beings!
[/quote]

This is one flaw in your reasoning.

Just think about what is happening right now. Christ (Jaheshua) is alive right now in heaven with His Father. He is the One who sent the Revelation to John. He says so Himself.

"The Revelation from [Jesus] Christ..."
"“I, [Jesus], have sent my angel to give you[a] this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star.”


He was in a physical body; then He was raised back to His glorified (spiritual) body, but He is the same person.

He is not just the Word made flesh. He is the Word.

He was first in a spiritual body, then became flesh (the kind of bodies we currently have), then returned to His spiritual body.



Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

[myth-one.com]

He was first in a spiritual body, then became flesh (the kind of bodies we currently have), then returned to His spiritual body.

There is a close connection between the Word, God, and Jesus that can't be understood by man. But the Word and God are spiritual body beings and Jesus was a Jewish man.

Jesus was born a Jewish man when God and the Israelites were parties to a covenant. God was the benefactor and the Israelites were the possible beneficiaries. Under that covenant the wages of sin was death. If any man or woman lived a sinless life, they became an inheritor of everlasting life. But there was a fault in that covenant in that no one had ever met the requirements for becoming an heir because all had sinned.

Who's responsibility was it to fix the fault?

Of course, it was assigned to the Word because the Word created everything ever created, which included the covenant. (That was easy)

So what could the Word do to correct the fault in the original covenant which He created?

Here's His plan:

The Word became flesh as the Jewish man Jesus Christ. This meant that the Word made flesh became a possible beneficiary under the covenant between God and the Children of Israel. The Word made flesh was named Jesus Christ. Jesus lived a sinless human life and died under that covenant, thus becoming the only heir to ever be created under that covenant. He has everlasting spiritual bodied life awaiting Him as an inheritance when the Covenant is probated when the age of man ends.

That in itself did not fix the fault. But it gave Jesus a possession which He could then include as an inheritance to someone(s) upon His death. God allowed a New Testament Covenant to be written in which Jesus offered His inheritance of everlasting life (which is His possession) earned under the original testament to those humans who believe in Him as their Savior from the wages of their sins!

Effectively, He gave up His inheritance to all who believe in Him as a free gift. So all who believe in Jesus will now receive everlasting life as their inheritance under the New Testament Covenant. Their benefactor will be Jesus Christ.

This made for a covenant under which many could qualify as beneficiaries -- thus correcting the fault in the original. Also, He covered the entire world under the covenant by allowing whosoever to qualify, as opposed to only the Israelites!

But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises. For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second. (Hebrews 8:6-7)

But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one (Adam) many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many. (Romans 5:15)

[tam]

Peace to you, myth-one,

[Replying to myth-one.com in post #2924]

Myth-one, you are just repeating the details of what you believe. The problem is that what you believe is not what Christ taught. He taught something else. As demonstrated in previous posts.

I'm going to hold everything up to the Light - to Christ - as He has taught me to do. He is the Truth. Not me or you or any religion. HE is the One to whom God said for us to listen.

He has everlasting spiritual bodied life awaiting Him as an inheritance when the Covenant is probated when the age of man ends.

Are you suggesting He is not alive right now?


Peace again to you.

[myth-one.com]

Peace to you, myth-one,

[Replying to myth-one.com in post #2924]

Myth-one, you are just repeating the details of what you believe. The problem is that what you believe is not what Christ taught. He taught something else.

Then why is it in the scriptures?

I'm going to hold everything up to the Light - to Christ - as He has taught me to do. He is the Truth. Not me or you or any religion. HE is the One to whom God said for us to listen.

He has everlasting spiritual bodied life awaiting Him as an inheritance when the Covenant is probated when the age of man ends.

Are you suggesting He is not alive right now?


Peace again to you.

Which He?

The Word is alive now.

But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honor; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man. (Hebrews 2:9)

Jesus was a Jewish man. Was He not included under the original covenant between God and the Nation of Israel?

Did He not live a sinless life under that covenant?

If He lived a sinless life then He does not have to pay the wages of sin -- which is the second death.

It is appointed to all mankind to die the first death:

And it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment: (Hebrews 9:27)

Jesus died His appointed first death on the cross.

Jesus' first death does not prevent any of us from dying our first death.

For someone to save us from our sins by dying in our place, they would have to be cast into the lake of fire and suffer their second and everlasting death.

Think about it awhile.

[tam]

Peace to you,

Peace to you, myth-one,

[Replying to myth-one.com in post #2924]

Myth-one, you are just repeating the details of what you believe. The problem is that what you believe is not what Christ taught. He taught something else.

Then why is it in the scriptures?

It isn't.

The very few verses that you have presented do not say what you claim.

I'm going to hold everything up to the Light - to Christ - as He has taught me to do. He is the Truth. Not me or you or any religion. HE is the One to whom God said for us to listen.

He has everlasting spiritual bodied life awaiting Him as an inheritance when the Covenant is probated when the age of man ends.

Are you suggesting He is not alive right now?


Peace again to you.

Which He?

Jaheshua. The One who sent the Revelation to John - AFTER His death, resurrection, and ascension to heaven. He even referred to himself by name (though the bible records that as Jesus).

"The Revelation from [Jesus] Christ..." Revelation 1:1
"“I, [Jesus], have sent my angel to give you[a] this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star.” Rev 22:16

It is right there in front of your eyes.


[

color=blue]But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honor; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man. (Hebrews 2:9)[/color]

Who does this verse say is crowned with glory and honor?

For someone to save us from our sins by dying in our place, they would have to be cast into the lake of fire and suffer their second and everlasting death.

Think about it awhile.

Surely you are not suggesting that Christ is going to be cast into the lake of fire and receive an everlasting death?


Peace again to you.

[myth-one.com]

Surely you are not suggesting that Christ is going to be cast into the lake of fire and receive an everlasting death?

Peace again to you.

Of course not!

Christ never sinned! So He is an heir to everlasting life under the original covenant -- which He will give to those who believe in Him as their Savior.

Had He sinned He would be headed for the lake of fire and everlasting second death like the rest of us.

[tam]

[Replying to myth-one.com in post #2928]

Okay good.

So back to the question of Christ being alive here and now, what about those verses from Revelation that show He (Christ Jaheshua) is alive and sent the revelation to John?

Peace again to you.

[onewithhim]

You say that the Word is the one in heaven, not Jesus. But Jesus himself said he came from heaven, so he was there, and he is once again.

"Now the main point in what has been said is this: we have such a high priest, who has taken his seat at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens." (Hebrews 8:1, NASB)

1 Timothy 2:5
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

Jesus was a man.

Has the man Jesus Christ taken His seat at the right hand of the throne of the majesty in the heavens?

If so, how do you explain the following verse:

1 Corinthians 15:50
Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

It has been explained ad nauseum. Maybe you missed the explanations. Jesus Christ did not have a physical body when sitting down at the right hand of the Majesty in the heavens. He remains today in a glorious spirit body.

"The one alone having immortality, who dwells in unapproachable light, whom not one of men has seen or can see." (I Timothy 6:16)