Countless Claims to "Answered" Prayer(s)

Argue for and against Christianity

Moderator: Moderators

Post Reply
User avatar
POI
Prodigy
Posts: 4970
Joined: Fri Jul 30, 2021 5:22 pm
Has thanked: 1906 times
Been thanked: 1357 times

Countless Claims to "Answered" Prayer(s)

Post #1

Post by POI »

We have countless claims, from Christians, to God/Jesus answering prayers for healing to human affliction(s). And by 'answered' prayer, I mean God/Jesus states -- (yes, I will grant you this prayer request to remove the human affliction).

For Debate:

1. Does God "answer" any of these prayer requests? If not, why?
2. If so, why does God/Jesus perpetually skip the following afflictions (amyotrophic lateral sclerosis, cerebral palsy, dementia, diabetes mellites 1, amputation, muscular dystrophy, hunington's disease, epilepsy, parkinson's disease, paget's disease, motor neuron disease, and so on)?
In case anyone is wondering... The avatar quote states the following:

"I asked God for a bike, but I know God doesn't work that way. So I stole a bike and asked for forgiveness."

User avatar
POI
Prodigy
Posts: 4970
Joined: Fri Jul 30, 2021 5:22 pm
Has thanked: 1906 times
Been thanked: 1357 times

Re: Countless Claims to "Answered" Prayer(s)

Post #11

Post by POI »

1213 wrote: Tue Oct 03, 2023 11:27 am
POI wrote: Mon Oct 02, 2023 10:13 am ...
If you believe so, why does God perpetually skip prayer requests to remove myotrophic lateral sclerosis, cerebral palsy, dementia, diabetes mellites 1, amputation, muscular dystrophy, hunington's disease, epilepsy, parkinson's disease, paget's disease, motor neuron disease, and so on?
I don't know what God has really skipped and I don't believe you really know it,
I do know it. God skips prayer requests involving myotrophic lateral sclerosis, cerebral palsy, dementia, diabetes mellites 1, amputation, muscular dystrophy, hunington's disease, epilepsy, parkinson's disease, paget's disease, motor neuron disease, and so on. Coincidence?
In case anyone is wondering... The avatar quote states the following:

"I asked God for a bike, but I know God doesn't work that way. So I stole a bike and asked for forgiveness."

User avatar
1213
Savant
Posts: 12739
Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2011 11:06 am
Location: Finland
Has thanked: 444 times
Been thanked: 467 times

Re: Countless Claims to "Answered" Prayer(s)

Post #12

Post by 1213 »

POI wrote: Tue Oct 03, 2023 5:49 pm
1213 wrote: Tue Oct 03, 2023 11:27 am
POI wrote: Mon Oct 02, 2023 10:13 am ...
If you believe so, why does God perpetually skip prayer requests to remove myotrophic lateral sclerosis, cerebral palsy, dementia, diabetes mellites 1, amputation, muscular dystrophy, hunington's disease, epilepsy, parkinson's disease, paget's disease, motor neuron disease, and so on?
I don't know what God has really skipped and I don't believe you really know it,
I do know it. ...
How do you know who has prayed Bible God and what they prayed?
My new book can be read freely from here:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1rIkqxC ... xtqFY/view

Old version can be read from here:
http://web.archive.org/web/202212010403 ... x_eng.html

User avatar
1213
Savant
Posts: 12739
Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2011 11:06 am
Location: Finland
Has thanked: 444 times
Been thanked: 467 times

Re: Countless Claims to "Answered" Prayer(s)

Post #13

Post by 1213 »

TRANSPONDER wrote: Tue Oct 03, 2023 12:07 pm ...clear demonstrations that prayer does not work....
By what I see, prayer works exactly as told in the Bible. If you don't see the answers you want to see, it does not necessary mean prayer doesn't work.
My new book can be read freely from here:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1rIkqxC ... xtqFY/view

Old version can be read from here:
http://web.archive.org/web/202212010403 ... x_eng.html

User avatar
Clownboat
Savant
Posts: 10012
Joined: Fri Aug 29, 2008 3:42 pm
Has thanked: 1216 times
Been thanked: 1614 times

Re: Countless Claims to "Answered" Prayer(s)

Post #14

Post by Clownboat »

1213 wrote: Wed Oct 04, 2023 11:07 am
TRANSPONDER wrote: Tue Oct 03, 2023 12:07 pm ...clear demonstrations that prayer does not work....
By what I see, prayer works exactly as told in the Bible. If you don't see the answers you want to see, it does not necessary mean prayer doesn't work.
Prayer doesn't work, because prayer has been shown to be ineffective.
Prayer only seems to work when a person believes that prayer works, because they place faith in the claim that prayer works. Faith is required for a person to believe that prayer works and that Allah is the one true God.
You can give a man a fish and he will be fed for a day, or you can teach a man to pray for fish and he will starve to death.

I blame man for codifying those rules into a book which allowed superstitious people to perpetuate a barbaric practice. Rules that must be followed or face an invisible beings wrath. - KenRU

It is sad that in an age of freedom some people are enslaved by the nomads of old. - Marco

If you are unable to demonstrate that what you believe is true and you absolve yourself of the burden of proof, then what is the purpose of your arguments? - brunumb

User avatar
POI
Prodigy
Posts: 4970
Joined: Fri Jul 30, 2021 5:22 pm
Has thanked: 1906 times
Been thanked: 1357 times

Re: Countless Claims to "Answered" Prayer(s)

Post #15

Post by POI »

1213 wrote: Wed Oct 04, 2023 11:05 am
POI wrote: Tue Oct 03, 2023 5:49 pm
1213 wrote: Tue Oct 03, 2023 11:27 am
POI wrote: Mon Oct 02, 2023 10:13 am ...
If you believe so, why does God perpetually skip prayer requests to remove myotrophic lateral sclerosis, cerebral palsy, dementia, diabetes mellites 1, amputation, muscular dystrophy, hunington's disease, epilepsy, parkinson's disease, paget's disease, motor neuron disease, and so on?
I don't know what God has really skipped and I don't believe you really know it,
I do know it. ...
How do you know who has prayed Bible God and what they prayed?
Is this a real response? I mean, seriously 1213. I'll tell you why I know:

1). My uncle has cerebral palsy and my family, who is religious, has prayed for him countless times. But he still has CP.
2). I work in the medical field and have watched family pray for their loved ones with myotrophic lateral sclerosis, cerebral palsy, dementia, diabetes mellites 1, amputation, muscular dystrophy, hunington's disease, epilepsy, parkinson's disease, paget's disease, motor neuron disease, and so on. And yet, their conditions remain.
3). My best friend's daughter has diabetes 1. Countless people have prayed for her, but she still has diabetes 1 20 years later.
4). I have had an amputation since 2007, due to a necessary passed surgical intervention. My family, and the church my family attends, has prayed for the return of this limb and the limb is still missing.
5). The conditions listed in point 2) above are deemed incurable. God looks to skip conditions which are deemed incurable.
6). In the past, I have asked people in this forum, and others, to pray for the removal of my family and friend's afflictions, and yet they still remain.

Your response is complete nonsense. Of the countless prayer requests submitted, it is quite logical for you to already know that many prayer requests have included the conditions I listed in the OP. So we have to ask ourselves.... Does God consciously skip these afflictions, or maybe, just maybe, there is no such God?
In case anyone is wondering... The avatar quote states the following:

"I asked God for a bike, but I know God doesn't work that way. So I stole a bike and asked for forgiveness."

User avatar
1213
Savant
Posts: 12739
Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2011 11:06 am
Location: Finland
Has thanked: 444 times
Been thanked: 467 times

Re: Countless Claims to "Answered" Prayer(s)

Post #16

Post by 1213 »

POI wrote: Wed Oct 04, 2023 3:27 pm ...I'll tell you why I know:

1). My uncle has cerebral palsy and my family, who is religious, has prayed for him countless times. But he still has CP.
2). I work in the medical field and have watched family pray for their loved ones with myotrophic lateral sclerosis, cerebral palsy, dementia, diabetes mellites 1, amputation, muscular dystrophy, hunington's disease, epilepsy, parkinson's disease, paget's disease, motor neuron disease, and so on. And yet, their conditions remain.
3). My best friend's daughter has diabetes 1. Countless people have prayed for her, but she still has diabetes 1 20 years later.
4). I have had an amputation since 2007, due to a necessary passed surgical intervention. My family, and the church my family attends, has prayed for the return of this limb and the limb is still missing.
5). The conditions listed in point 2) above are deemed incurable. God looks to skip conditions which are deemed incurable.
6). In the past, I have asked people in this forum, and others, to pray for the removal of my family and friend's afflictions, and yet they still remain.

Your response is complete nonsense. Of the countless prayer requests submitted, it is quite logical for you to already know that many prayer requests have included the conditions I listed in the OP. So we have to ask ourselves.... Does God consciously skip these afflictions, or maybe, just maybe, there is no such God?
Thanks for the information. I think it is crucial what is prayed. For example, if person prays trinity and not Bible God, why would anyone expect Bible God to answer?

But, the truth is, I don't know enough to tell why things don't go as you expect they should go. Still, I believe things go exactly as told in the Bible, even if you don't get always what you want.
My new book can be read freely from here:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1rIkqxC ... xtqFY/view

Old version can be read from here:
http://web.archive.org/web/202212010403 ... x_eng.html

User avatar
1213
Savant
Posts: 12739
Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2011 11:06 am
Location: Finland
Has thanked: 444 times
Been thanked: 467 times

Re: Countless Claims to "Answered" Prayer(s)

Post #17

Post by 1213 »

Clownboat wrote: Wed Oct 04, 2023 11:35 am Prayer doesn't work, because prayer has been shown to be ineffective.
Prayer only seems to work when a person believes that prayer works, because they place faith in the claim that prayer works. Faith is required for a person to believe that prayer works and that Allah is the one true God.
Sorry, I think it works exactly as told in the Bible. But, I have no problem, if you don't believe it.

Your last point makes me think, does also modern medicine work only, if person has enough faith in it? Placebo studies indicates that faith seems to be the main cure, which in a way fits well to what is said in the Bible.
My new book can be read freely from here:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1rIkqxC ... xtqFY/view

Old version can be read from here:
http://web.archive.org/web/202212010403 ... x_eng.html

TRANSPONDER
Banned
Banned
Posts: 9237
Joined: Thu Apr 29, 2021 8:05 am
Has thanked: 1080 times
Been thanked: 3981 times

Re: Countless Claims to "Answered" Prayer(s)

Post #18

Post by TRANSPONDER »

1213 wrote: Wed Oct 04, 2023 11:07 am
TRANSPONDER wrote: Tue Oct 03, 2023 12:07 pm ...clear demonstrations that prayer does not work....
By what I see, prayer works exactly as told in the Bible. If you don't see the answers you want to see, it does not necessary mean prayer doesn't work.
The guarantee of answered prayer 'whatever you ask in Faith', (even given not granting stuff like removing a mountain into the sea because there is a vinery farm on it) is clearly not answered. The healings that are supposed to happen do not and turn into ludicrous carny shows. Pal - and I love your persistence - if I was Jesusgod I could make it utterly clear that Christians praying for stuff (that didn't cause harm) Got it and there would be no debate which religion was true.

What we get are coincidences and funny feelings presented as proof of God. It isn't. Dismissing 'not seeing the answers' that one might have a right to expect given the NT guarantee, the smart -money hypothesis isthat 'prayer does not work'. Faithbased denial doesn't alter that and (as said times before) it is not about your faithbased dismissal of arguments you do not like, but about the case presented to the casual browser. So often the Believer seems to think that if they deny everything and refuse to be persuaded, they have won. :) No, that isn't how it works.

User avatar
POI
Prodigy
Posts: 4970
Joined: Fri Jul 30, 2021 5:22 pm
Has thanked: 1906 times
Been thanked: 1357 times

Re: Countless Claims to "Answered" Prayer(s)

Post #19

Post by POI »

1213 wrote: Thu Oct 05, 2023 4:50 am Your last point makes me think, does also modern medicine work only, if person has enough faith in it?
The answer to this question is no.

Insulin, Narcan, Benadryl, Epinephrine, Propofol, all antibiotics, all antifungals, all antiretrovirals, Heparin, all statins, and others, work regardless of also having faith in them or not.
Last edited by POI on Thu Oct 05, 2023 10:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
In case anyone is wondering... The avatar quote states the following:

"I asked God for a bike, but I know God doesn't work that way. So I stole a bike and asked for forgiveness."

User avatar
POI
Prodigy
Posts: 4970
Joined: Fri Jul 30, 2021 5:22 pm
Has thanked: 1906 times
Been thanked: 1357 times

Re: Countless Claims to "Answered" Prayer(s)

Post #20

Post by POI »

1213 wrote: Thu Oct 05, 2023 4:49 am I think it is crucial what is prayed. For example, if person prays trinity and not Bible God, why would anyone expect Bible God to answer?
Pray however you wish, God ain't answering 'yes' to requests to remove myotrophic lateral sclerosis, cerebral palsy, dementia, diabetes mellites 1, amputation, muscular dystrophy, hunington's disease, epilepsy, parkinson's disease, paget's disease, motor neuron disease, and so on. Coincidence?
1213 wrote: Thu Oct 05, 2023 4:49 am But, the truth is, I don't know enough to tell why things don't go as you expect they should go.
Oh, I do. I know enough to conclude there is no such prayer answering God. It's actually quite simple. Don't convolute things any more than they need to be.
In case anyone is wondering... The avatar quote states the following:

"I asked God for a bike, but I know God doesn't work that way. So I stole a bike and asked for forgiveness."

Post Reply