Why Would God Make Rules Subjugating Women?

[Diogenes]

This subtopic takes as a given that all three major Abrahamic religions developed laws to control or subjugate women to a different or lesser status. That is taken as a given for the purpose of this thread. Anyone who doubts the Abrahamic religions have, historically, fashioned rules for men to control women is advised to read https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_and ... _religions and start their own, separate topic for discussion, rather than argue that here.

The question for debate in this topic is "Why would God make rules that allow for the subjugation and control of women by men? The current example of such subjugation in its extreme form deals with the morality police in Iran, punishing and allegedly even murdering women for not 'properly' covering their hair with the hijab.
https://www.npr.org/2022/09/21/11242372 ... ity-police
But historically similar rules have been endorsed by both Jewish and Christian scriptures as well.

[TRANSPONDER]

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don't you consider that the Trinitarian religious organizations would have found another excuse to kill millions of people had the Bible not even existed. This was simply the type of people they were,

they could have taken any document about law, science or morality and manipulated and altered and perverted its context and original purpose.

The Bible shows a cause and effect and details the death penality and punishment for following other Gods and evil ideologies because they were a physical danger to society resulting in the destruction, diseases, infections and death of thousands of innocent people.

This is the narrative and foundation in the scriptures for the death penality and punishment


Not a single witch was burned - not a single homosexual was killed - nor a single adulterer was ever even ONCE recorded to have been harmed or killed in 7000 years of Bible history.

not one person - is recorded in the Bible to have been killed or harmed by someone following the instructions of the death penality and punishment - the scriptures did not glorify the killing of anyone -

the scriptures detail from the beginning - why the death penality and punishment was given and this was to protect innocent people from the dangers of following destructive and damaging customs that caused the death and suffering of the innocent,.

This attempt to whitewash the Bible won't work. At worst, the Bible contains horrible crimes ordered and even accomplished by God. Ok, wiping out Pharaoh's army may be presented as a necessary act, but exterminating people just to get lebensraum? Or because they wanted to stay out of the war? At best it is a morality that has been improved today. It is frankly crafty to point to no single example of this or that person considered at that time (not necessarily now by any credible morality) being done to death as ordered, but we can take it doe granted that they were.

The excuse that it was needed to keep people in order. Today we do the same but not with such primitive and barbaric methods. No, the Bible is a blood- soaked and immoral book, first page to last. It fails on morality as well as credibility.

[JoeyKnothead]

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No, the Bible is a blood- soaked and immoral book, first page to last. It fails on morality as well as credibility.

Potent, concise.

Those who hold the bible up as a moral authority expose their lack of it.

[Falling Light 101]

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The Egyptians were forcing the Hebrews to kill their very own children to keep them under control and in slavery - this is why Moses was placed into a basket and sent floating downstream into the Egyptian upper class society by his sister .

in hope that someone would find him and save his life.

If someone enslaved Americans and forced them to kill and murder their own children - under the death penality - we can be sure that Americans would make war upon their captors and completely destroy them

[JoeyKnothead]

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The Egyptians were forcing the Hebrews to kill their very own children to keep them under control and in slavery - this is why Moses was placed into a basket and sent floating downstream into the Egyptian upper class society by his sister .

in hope that someone would find him and save his life.

If someone enslaved Americans and forced them to kill and murder their own children - under the death penality - we can be sure that Americans would make war upon their captors and completely destroy them

Well of course don't do none of that, whether by the gods, or our own hands.

That still doesn't erase religious culpability in more wars than a man has fingers and toes to count em.

[TRANSPONDER]

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The Egyptians were forcing the Hebrews to kill their very own children to keep them under control and in slavery - this is why Moses was placed into a basket and sent floating downstream into the Egyptian upper class society by his sister .

in hope that someone would find him and save his life.

If someone enslaved Americans and forced them to kill and murder their own children - under the death penality - we can be sure that Americans would make war upon their captors and completely destroy them

I already said that Pharaoh (according to the Bible) may have deserved what he got but that is just crafty - looking at one excusable bit of violence and ignoring the inexcusable ones.

[boatsnguitars]

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The Egyptians were forcing the Hebrews to kill their very own children to keep them under control and in slavery - this is why Moses was placed into a basket and sent floating downstream into the Egyptian upper class society by his sister .

in hope that someone would find him and save his life.

If someone enslaved Americans and forced them to kill and murder their own children - under the death penality - we can be sure that Americans would make war upon their captors and completely destroy them

Funny, I guess if Americans would do it, it must be morally right? Not to mention, the Church supported slavery for 1500 years. The Church also supported the Crusades, the Inquisition, and Nazis.
But, yes, if anyone persecuted the Church, they would be destroyed by the Church. That is clear.

The issue isn't whether ancient people were brutal or not, but whether it is morally right to commit genocide. Especially, when they are claiming their Omnipotent God could simply change people's hearts, or cause a flood - but instead, whispered into the ear of an ancient leader to do it. If God didn't tell them to commit genocide, was it still moral?

What did the average men, women, children and livestock have to do with the King's orders to obey his law, other than being under the same oppressive regime? When God told the soldiers to murder babies, what did those soldiers or babies do to be part of all that?

"Politicians hide themselves away
They only started the war
Why should they go out to fight?
They leave that role to the poor"

And what this has to do with subjugating women...?

[Diogenes]

This is the narrative and foundation in the scriptures for the death penality [sic] and punishment
Not a single witch was burned - not a single homosexual was killed - nor a single adulterer was ever even ONCE recorded to have been harmed or killed in 7000 years of Bible history.
not one person - is recorded in the Bible to have been killed or harmed by someone following the instructions of the death penality and punishment - the scriptures did not glorify the killing of anyone -

the scriptures detail from the beginning - why the death penality and punishment was given and this was to protect innocent people from the dangers of following destructive and damaging customs that caused the death and suffering of the innocent,.

'Have you actually read the Bible?' This is the question that comes to mind when one reads the hash you have made of it.
It's hard to know where to begin when pointing out the absurd factual errors you make.
You write as if the Bible makes no mention of the flood the authors of Genesis claim when they wrote it in the "6th and 5th centuries BC" 2500 years ago, not 7000.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Genesis In that flood, according to Genesis EVERYONE in the world, save a single family, was exterminated for unspecified reasons other than a vague, general 'corruption.' This mass genocide (the worst in human history IF Genesis even represents history) would presumably have included "witches" and "homosexuals."

The Hebrews trace their heritage thru Isaac who supposedly lived "from 1896 BC to 1716 B.C," roughly 3800 years ago, not 7000.
https://amazingbibletimeline.com/blog/isaac/

This section of the forum is Christianity and Apologetics where claims must be supported [see 'Guidelines' for C & A]

As for your silly and erroneous claims about "no one being killed" and "the scriptures not glorifying the killing of anyone," I repeat, have you even read the bible? The list of mass genocide authorized by "God" for his favorite tribe is long. A partial list:
1. The Flood (Genesis 6-8)
2. The cities of the plain, including Sodom and Gomorrah (Genesis 18-19)
3. The Egyptian firstborn sons during the Passover (Exodus 11-12)
4. The Canaanites under Moses and Joshua (Numbers 21:2-3; Deuteronomy 20:17; Joshua 6:17, 21)
5. The Amalekites annihilated by Saul (1 Samuel 15)

These mass killings were "glorified." For example:

The general command to genocide (Deuteronomy 20:16-18)

However, in the cities of the nations the Lord your God is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes. Completely destroy them—the Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites—as the Lord your God has commanded you. Otherwise, they will teach you to follow all the detestable things they do in worshiping their gods, and you will sin against the Lord your God.

The genocide of the Amaleks (1 Samuel 15:3)

Now go and attack Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and do not spare them. But kill both man and woman, infant and nursing child, ox and sheep, camel and donkey.

But perhaps the worst 'glorification' of murder in the Jewish Bible is the story of God telling Abraham to kill his only son, Isaac, as a 'test of faith.'
This mythic 'god,' if real, is a monster. Even tho' he eventually stays Abraham's hand, just consider the mental torture 'God' put Abraham thru, making him choose between loyalty to God and murdering his only son.

The 'Light' is not just Falling; it is Failing.

[Adonai Yahweh]

This subtopic takes as a given that all three major Abrahamic religions developed laws to control or subjugate women to a different or lesser status. That is taken as a given for the purpose of this thread. Anyone who doubts the Abrahamic religions have, historically, fashioned rules for men to control women is advised to read https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_and ... _religions and start their own, separate topic for discussion, rather than argue that here.

Wikipedia is not credible source of evidence as anyone can come edit the information meaning that information can be biased . Majority of the references are older than 5 years and there is not information to who the author is or what qualifications they hold . They are major differences in Judasim , Islam and Christianity so we can not group them together as one ( Abrahamic religion ) . Christianity does not control women there are many women in the old testament and new testament that were given leadership positions or pivotal positions in ministry like Mary Magdalene , Priscilla ,Phoebe , Deborah , Esther etc . Many christian churches today have women pastors like Jocye Meyer , Nadia Bolz-Weber , Christine Caine etc .

The question for debate in this topic is "Why would God make rules that allow for the subjugation and control of women by men? [/size] The current example of such subjugation in its extreme form deals with the morality police in Iran, punishing and allegedly even murdering women for not 'properly' covering their hair with the hijab.
https://www.npr.org/2022/09/21/11242372 ... ity-police
But historically similar rules have been endorsed by both Jewish and Christian scriptures as well.

I cannot speak for Islam because I'm not Muslim . The bible is a historical book so you need to account for the cultural norms and customs practiced during those times . Wearing head covering was part of the clothing attire for women during the biblical times . Women were advised not wear elaborate jewellery , clothing and perfume , and not to argue in the church . Men were also told to not argue in the church or cause disputes . The general message for the men and women in the church was don't come to church in provocative clothing and clothing or jewellery showcasing your wealth and don't argue or cause disputes in church there must be order .

The real question is why do atheists have a double standard when it come to sex for women ? Why are athiest men allowing for gender inequality in terms gender pay gap ? , why have atheists allowed for the continuation of pornographic websites indoctrinating men to objectify women , where documentaries have been released that rape victims and child molesters videos have been posted on these forums ? Why are women still harassed on streets or workplaces ? Why has Hollywood become such as unsafe place for women that famous men such Harvey Weinstein , Jeffery Epstein ? Let be realistic now you cannot come and start addressing issues when even in your own countries that are non-religious , women are still suffering and being killed for simply saying no to a date . Lets not forget the reoccurring mass shootings that take the countless lives of women and young girls as well as men and boys

[Falling Light 101]

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Can you provide a single example of the Scriptures commanding anyone to subjugate any woman ?

Using the Original Manuscripts it is impossible, the manuscripts are very different from the Trinitarian Translation. There are simply no manuscripts for these claims

the very purpose of the USA bombing of the German Cities was intended to directly target and terrorize and kill the civilian population - to force Germany to surrender and stop terrorizing

it is estimated that 400,000 to 600,000 Innocent German civilians were intentionally killed

Same in Japan - the purpose of the USA bombing Japan was intended to to directly target and terrorize and kill the civilian population - to force Japan to surrender and stop terrorizing

it is estimated over a million Innocent Japanese civilians were intentionally killed

in Italy the USA intended to directly target and terrorize and kill the civilian population in an attempt to break the will of Italy to continue with the war.

it is estimated 30,000 innocent Italian civilians were intentionally killed

but the Bible message is simply that " God would be on the side... """" of someone who was defending themselves.

" God would be on the side... " of someone who from the time of Moses until King Saul - for nearly 500 years the entire eXistance and relationship of the Amalekites had been nothing but terrorizing and attacking the Israelites, from the time of Abraham, down to King Saul here in Deu 25:

when the Israelites were traveling - out of Egypt; and passing PEACEFULLY near the territory of The Amalekites - The Amalekites attacked the weak, feeble, tired, old men and woman and children who were at the very rear / back end of the traveling procession, as the Israelites were traveling - The Amalekites attacked in a surprise attack - and they and killed / murdered the faint and weary travelers who were at the rear of them -

and since that day they continually attacked them with terrorist attacks. for 500 years until King Saul.

Deu 25:17 Remember what Amalek did unto thee by the way, when ye were come forth out of Egypt; :18 How he met thee by the way and smote the hindmost of thee, even all that were feeble behind thee, when thou wast faint and weary.

this is what must be done and has been done in every major war, the USA was fighting a war against 3 superpowers, Italy, Germany and Japan - this war was impossible for the USA to sustain itself and the only choice was to kill the woman and children of our enemies.

for nearly 500 years the entire eXistance and relationship of the Amalekites had been nothing but terrorizing and attacking the Israelites, from the time of Abraham, down to King Saul -

Israel was being surrounded and vastly outnumbered and their enemies goal was to EXTERMINATE AND KILL THEM ALL

the God of the Bible defended their right to defend themselves and preserve a future for their children.

[Clownboat]

The real question is why do atheists have a double standard when it come to sex for women?

Please show that you speak the truth and that this is some atheistic standard. If you cannot, you should apologize and try not to defame such a large portion of the worlds population.

Why are athiest men allowing for gender inequality in terms gender pay gap?

Please show that you speak the truth and that this is some atheistic standard. If you cannot, you should apologize and try not to defame such a large portion of the worlds population.

why have atheists allowed for the continuation of pornographic websites indoctrinating men to objectify women

Please show that you speak the truth and that this is some atheistic standard. If you cannot, you should apologize and try not to defame such a large portion of the worlds population.

where documentaries have been released that rape victims and child molesters videos have been posted on these forums?

Why are women still harassed on streets or workplaces?

We could offer many a reason. What is painfully obvious is that the gods do not protect such women. Why do the gods not seem to care if they are real?

Why has Hollywood become such as unsafe place for women that famous men such Harvey Weinstein , Jeffery Epstein?

One could argue that Hollywood has become more safe over the last 100 years, but what would be the point? Why are you asking and what answer could you possibly expect?

Let be realistic now you cannot come and start addressing issues when even in your own countries that are non-religious

Issues can and should be addressed no matter if a country is religious or not. Shame on you!

women are still suffering and being killed for simply saying no to a date.

Is this something you struggle with or something you think is a common practice?

Lets not forget the reoccurring mass shootings that take the countless lives of women and young girls as well as men and boys

Yes, let's not forget them. Any idea why you bring them up here in this debate though?

You seem lost IMO. If only there was a God there to assist you, your post would probably make more sense and have some actual argument to address.