If Science Revealed God

[Purple Knight]

Question for Debate: If science actually proved God, would you change the way you lived your life?

And if so, why? Also, what would it be based upon? If it just so happens that the person in front of the computer posting as Purple Knight created the universe, do I gain any special moral credibility from that action? The way I see it, no, I don't. If I created the universe, so what? Your parents created you, and if they're bad people who want you to do bad things, you can still (and should, to my mind) say no.

[Tcg]

He still exists, but, as I have tried to say, hides from those who do not want a relationship with Him. As for my advice, I can merely offer my experiences as a 'for example'. The route I took worked for me, but we are a diverse species comprised of diverse cultures. I dare say other routes work for other people.

Best wishes, 2RM.

That's an odd conclusion. As a believer, I sought a relationship with God and yet he hid from me. Or rather that's the way it seemed. I came to realize that there is no reason to conclude that there was a God to do any hiding. That's the route that worked for me.

Since then, I've come to realize the function that belief in god/gods serves for some and realize that there is no need for there to be any god/gods for that function of belief to work. It can be a great talisman for some to resolve (though falsely) the existential realities of life. That is just icing on the cake though. The clincher was God's total absence when sought.

Another oddity in this scenario is the idea that one has to believe in God before God will reveal himself to them so they can believe in God. Why would God need to reveal himself to someone who already believes in him (rhetorical question)? It's like trying to convince a Dallas Cowboys fan that the Cowboys are the bestest team to root for. Not a very challenging endeavor.


Tcg

[nobspeople]

[Replying to Tcg in post #71]

I was in the same boat. For decades I searched for god - and thought I found it. But I realized I could convince myself of anything if I tried hard enough, especially growing up in a small, christian town, unable to learn about other religions and POVs until later in life.
I've found that the claim of 'god reveals himself to those who seek' is nothing but bunk. It's a way for believers to justify their own faith AND the fact that others haven't found what they claim is real and will 'reveal himself to those that look for him'. Nothing more.

[2ndRateMind]

[Replying to Tcg in post #71]

I was in the same boat. For decades I searched for god - and thought I found it. But I realized I could convince myself of anything if I tried hard enough, especially growing up in a small, christian town, unable to learn about other religions and POVs until later in life.
I've found that the claim of 'god reveals himself to those who seek' is nothing but bunk. It's a way for believers to justify their own faith AND the fact that others haven't found what they claim is real and will 'reveal himself to those that look for him'. Nothing more.

Never forget that religion is a love affair. If you do not love God, you will not find Him. If you do, you will.

Best wishes, 2RM,

[nobspeople]

[Replying to Tcg in post #71]

I was in the same boat. For decades I searched for god - and thought I found it. But I realized I could convince myself of anything if I tried hard enough, especially growing up in a small, christian town, unable to learn about other religions and POVs until later in life.
I've found that the claim of 'god reveals himself to those who seek' is nothing but bunk. It's a way for believers to justify their own faith AND the fact that others haven't found what they claim is real and will 'reveal himself to those that look for him'. Nothing more.

Never forget that religion is a love affair. If you do not love Him, you will not find Him. If you do, you will.

Best wishes, 2RM,

Never forget that humans can convince themselves of anything.

But let's talk about the old 'love' concept:
Love from god that set up humanity to fail
Love that forces humanity to come to god and kiss up to it or spend eternity in hell.

Might as well love a unicorn - it's almost as probable as finding one of them than it is god.

I'm happy for you that you found a made up being in your mind. If it serves you well, have at it - enjoy!
But it doesn't work like that for everyone, never forget that.

[Sherlock Holmes]

He still exists, but, as I have tried to say, hides from those who do not want a relationship with Him. As for my advice, I can merely offer my experiences as a 'for example'. The route I took worked for me, but we are a diverse species comprised of diverse cultures. I dare say other routes work for other people.

Best wishes, 2RM.

That's an odd conclusion. As a believer, I sought a relationship with God and yet he hid from me. Or rather that's the way it seemed. I came to realize that there is no reason to conclude that there was a God to do any hiding. That's the route that worked for me.

Since then, I've come to realize the function that belief in god/gods serves for some and realize that there is no need for there to be any god/gods for that function of belief to work. It can be a great talisman for some to resolve (though falsely) the existential realities of life. That is just icing on the cake though. The clincher was God's total absence when sought.

Another oddity in this scenario is the idea that one has to believe in God before God will reveal himself to them so they can believe in God. Why would God need to reveal himself to someone who already believes in him (rhetorical question)? It's like trying to convince a Dallas Cowboys fan that the Cowboys are the bestest team to root for. Not a very challenging endeavor.


Tcg

It's worth just pondering anyway, that we all have a "God" for some it is themselves, they, their will, their desires, their goals are paramount and that can mask their mind to the reality of the creator God, we are all obedient, it is just a matter of to whom. To acknowledge God, even begin to consider the reality of God one has to take the step of humility, recognizing that our will must be seen for what it is, a selfish barrier to the learning of new truths.

That step begins by a true opening of the mind, the recognition that we must unlearn in order to learn, that we must unbelieve things that are untrue or hostile to God, we are part of the relationship.

[Tcg]

It's worth just pondering anyway, that we all have a "God" for some it is themselves...

Nope. I don't and I'm not alone in that.


Tcg

[Tcg]

[Replying to Tcg in post #71]

I was in the same boat. For decades I searched for god - and thought I found it. But I realized I could convince myself of anything if I tried hard enough, especially growing up in a small, christian town, unable to learn about other religions and POVs until later in life.
I've found that the claim of 'god reveals himself to those who seek' is nothing but bunk. It's a way for believers to justify their own faith AND the fact that others haven't found what they claim is real and will 'reveal himself to those that look for him'. Nothing more.

Never forget that religion is a love affair. If you do not love God, you will not find Him. If you do, you will.

Best wishes, 2RM,

It's more like one of those romance novels. It's fantasy, but some people enjoy them.


Tcg

[Sherlock Holmes]

It's worth just pondering anyway, that we all have a "God" for some it is themselves...

Nope. I don't and I'm not alone in that.


Tcg

We're all subject to someone's will even if it's our own.

[Tcg]

It's worth just pondering anyway, that we all have a "God" for some it is themselves...

Nope. I don't and I'm not alone in that.


Tcg

We're all subject to someone's will even if it's our own.

That brings up a whole other kettle of fish as some don't accept that free will is a reality. In any case, it doesn't change the fact that I have no god/gods and that I am not alone in that. Oddly, for some theists, worshiping god/gods is so important to them that they can't imagine anyone else not sharing their devotion to a god or gods of some sort. It would be like someone telling me they don't like Brussel sprouts and I responded by telling them that everybody loves Brussel sprouts. Well, guess what? Some people don't.


Tcg

[Sherlock Holmes]

It's worth just pondering anyway, that we all have a "God" for some it is themselves...

Nope. I don't and I'm not alone in that.


Tcg

We're all subject to someone's will even if it's our own.

That brings up a whole other kettle of fish as some don't accept that free will is a reality. In any case, it doesn't change the fact that I have no god/gods and that I am not alone in that.

Yes free will does come up and its far from clear scripturally whether we have it or not (not that scripture is relevant to you of course). Referring to ourselves, our idols as "God" is something found in the Bible, so that's where I get this analogy.

Oddly, for some theists, worshiping god/gods is so important to them that they can't imagine anyone else not sharing their devotion to a god or gods of some sort.

Yes there are fanatics, much as some atheists like Richard Dawkins regard anyone not sharing his atheistic beliefs as suffering from a delusion (and the guy's not even an MD!).

It would be like someone telling me they don't like Brussel sprouts and I responded by telling them that everybody loves Brussel sprouts. Well, guess what? Some people don't.

I used to hate them, but if they're grilled I find they can be OK.