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Assuming choice is possible, how does a person go about freely choosing to believe in god?
Is such a thing even possible? Doesn't there have to be an overwhelmingly convincing element that comes into play before such a belief can take place? And why would we settle on that particular element rather than some other element, which might not be convincing at all? Wouldn't picking that convincing element because that's what it is, be stacking the deck? And how would we become aware of such an element?
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Can We Choose To Believe In God?.
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Re: Can We Choose To Believe In God?.
Post #11[Replying to Aetixintro in post #2]
Regarding my claim on religious people and Atheists/non-believers, it's backed by brain chemistry (blood samples/blood in the head-scanning, right side) and AI analysis. I agree that searching, young Atheists and non-believers are "statistical outliers" and are likely to fall in line later in time.
Good?
Regarding my claim on religious people and Atheists/non-believers, it's backed by brain chemistry (blood samples/blood in the head-scanning, right side) and AI analysis. I agree that searching, young Atheists and non-believers are "statistical outliers" and are likely to fall in line later in time.
Good?
I'm cool! - Stronger Religion every day! Also by "mathematical Religion", the eternal forms, God closing the door on corrupt humanity, possibly!
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Re: Can We Choose To Believe In God?.
Post #12Simply claiming what you suggest backs up your claim, isn't a presentation of evidence.Aetixintro wrote: ↑Sun Oct 10, 2021 6:42 am
Regarding my claim on religious people and Atheists/non-believers, it's backed by brain chemistry (blood samples/blood in the head-scanning, right side) and AI analysis.
This is nothing but another unsupported claim and includes zero evidence.I agree that searching, young Atheists and non-believers are "statistical outliers" and are likely to fall in line later in time.
Not even close.
Good?
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To be clear: Atheism is not a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods; it is a lack of belief in gods.
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Not believing isn't the same as believing not.
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I must assume that knowing is better than not knowing, venturing than not venturing; and that magic and illusion, however rich, however alluring, ultimately weaken the human spirit.
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Not believing isn't the same as believing not.
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I must assume that knowing is better than not knowing, venturing than not venturing; and that magic and illusion, however rich, however alluring, ultimately weaken the human spirit.
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Re: Can We Choose To Believe In God?.
Post #13A silly remark of course, but I am curious as to why you would make such a claim. If you honestly believe that what you say here is because of something you've read, please share your sources. If you have no such evidence then the alternatives are completely understandable.Aetixintro wrote: ↑Sun Oct 10, 2021 6:42 am [Replying to Aetixintro in post #2]
Regarding my claim on religious people and Atheists/non-believers,
["Healthy people become religious and (technically) insane [people] become Atheist and non-believers. IMO."]
it's backed by brain chemistry (blood samples/blood in the head-scanning, right side) and AI analysis.
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Re: Can We Choose To Believe In God?.
Post #14It seems to me that belief is, at bottom, a disposition. Dispositions, by their very nature, are not the products of choice but are instead objects of conscious experience of which we become aware and which seem to play some causal role in influencing how, or what, we choose.Miles wrote: ↑Sat Aug 14, 2021 4:11 pm .
Assuming choice is possible, how does a person go about freely choosing to believe in god?
Is such a thing even possible? Doesn't there have to be an overwhelmingly convincing element that comes into play before such a belief can take place? And why would we settle on that particular element rather than some other element, which might not be convincing at all? Wouldn't picking that convincing element because that's what it is, be stacking the deck? And how would we become aware of such an element?
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For example, I did not select my belief that a computer sits before me upon which I could, in principle, type this sentence. Nor can I choose to genuinely believe that no such computer exists. Rather, I have become aware of the fact that I do believe my computer exists and it is this belief which serves as a causal precursor to my choice to begin typing.
As it is with my belief in my computer, so it is (as far as I can tell) with all beliefs.
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Re: Can We Choose To Believe In God?.
Post #15There are many arguments for and against the existence of God but the decision for belief in God is not, generally speaking, an intellectual one based on abstract argument. It is deeper than that. The intellectual arguments are post hoc justifications for one's position for or against belief in God.
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Re: Can We Choose To Believe In God?.
Post #16And I disagree. I consider belief to be a conscious acceptance of something that lacks evidence enough to be considered a fact.Ionian_Tradition wrote: ↑Thu Oct 14, 2021 2:33 amIt seems to me that belief is, at bottom, a disposition.Miles wrote: ↑Sat Aug 14, 2021 4:11 pm .
Assuming choice is possible, how does a person go about freely choosing to believe in god?
Is such a thing even possible? Doesn't there have to be an overwhelmingly convincing element that comes into play before such a belief can take place? And why would we settle on that particular element rather than some other element, which might not be convincing at all? Wouldn't picking that convincing element because that's what it is, be stacking the deck? And how would we become aware of such an element?
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Re: Can We Choose To Believe In God?.
Post #17Genuine mental assent is not a choice. If you doubt this, you need only refer to your own inability to choose (in this very moment) to genuinely accept as true any belief you sincerely hold to be false.Miles wrote: ↑Thu Oct 14, 2021 2:28 pmAnd I disagree. I consider belief to be a conscious acceptance of something that lacks evidence enough to be considered a fact.Ionian_Tradition wrote: ↑Thu Oct 14, 2021 2:33 amIt seems to me that belief is, at bottom, a disposition.Miles wrote: ↑Sat Aug 14, 2021 4:11 pm .
Assuming choice is possible, how does a person go about freely choosing to believe in god?
Is such a thing even possible? Doesn't there have to be an overwhelmingly convincing element that comes into play before such a belief can take place? And why would we settle on that particular element rather than some other element, which might not be convincing at all? Wouldn't picking that convincing element because that's what it is, be stacking the deck? And how would we become aware of such an element?
.
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Re: Can We Choose To Believe In God?.
Post #18Never said choice was involved. The acceptance is wholly determined.Ionian_Tradition wrote: ↑Fri Oct 15, 2021 2:33 amGenuine mental assent is not a choice. If you doubt this, you need only refer to your own inability to choose (in this very moment) to genuinely accept as true any belief you sincerely hold to be false.Miles wrote: ↑Thu Oct 14, 2021 2:28 pmAnd I disagree. I consider belief to be a conscious acceptance of something that lacks evidence enough to be considered a fact.Ionian_Tradition wrote: ↑Thu Oct 14, 2021 2:33 amIt seems to me that belief is, at bottom, a disposition.Miles wrote: ↑Sat Aug 14, 2021 4:11 pm .
Assuming choice is possible, how does a person go about freely choosing to believe in god?
Is such a thing even possible? Doesn't there have to be an overwhelmingly convincing element that comes into play before such a belief can take place? And why would we settle on that particular element rather than some other element, which might not be convincing at all? Wouldn't picking that convincing element because that's what it is, be stacking the deck? And how would we become aware of such an element?
.
.
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Re: Can We Choose To Believe In God?.
Post #19Then your disagreement with me (if indeed there is one) would seem rather trivial given that my aim was to show that belief is non-volitional (i.e. deterministic).Miles wrote: ↑Fri Oct 15, 2021 3:21 pmNever said choice was involved. The acceptance is wholly determined.Ionian_Tradition wrote: ↑Fri Oct 15, 2021 2:33 amGenuine mental assent is not a choice. If you doubt this, you need only refer to your own inability to choose (in this very moment) to genuinely accept as true any belief you sincerely hold to be false.Miles wrote: ↑Thu Oct 14, 2021 2:28 pmAnd I disagree. I consider belief to be a conscious acceptance of something that lacks evidence enough to be considered a fact.Ionian_Tradition wrote: ↑Thu Oct 14, 2021 2:33 amIt seems to me that belief is, at bottom, a disposition.Miles wrote: ↑Sat Aug 14, 2021 4:11 pm .
Assuming choice is possible, how does a person go about freely choosing to believe in god?
Is such a thing even possible? Doesn't there have to be an overwhelmingly convincing element that comes into play before such a belief can take place? And why would we settle on that particular element rather than some other element, which might not be convincing at all? Wouldn't picking that convincing element because that's what it is, be stacking the deck? And how would we become aware of such an element?
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Re: Can We Choose To Believe In God?.
Post #20Not trivial at all. You said that it seems to you that belief is, at bottom, a disposition, and I don't consider belief to be a disposition at all, but rather an acceptance.Ionian_Tradition wrote: ↑Mon Oct 18, 2021 1:52 amThen your disagreement with me (if indeed there is one) would seem rather trivial given that my aim was to show that belief is non-volitional (i.e. deterministic).Miles wrote: ↑Fri Oct 15, 2021 3:21 pmNever said choice was involved. The acceptance is wholly determined.Ionian_Tradition wrote: ↑Fri Oct 15, 2021 2:33 amGenuine mental assent is not a choice. If you doubt this, you need only refer to your own inability to choose (in this very moment) to genuinely accept as true any belief you sincerely hold to be false.Miles wrote: ↑Thu Oct 14, 2021 2:28 pmAnd I disagree. I consider belief to be a conscious acceptance of something that lacks evidence enough to be considered a fact.Ionian_Tradition wrote: ↑Thu Oct 14, 2021 2:33 amIt seems to me that belief is, at bottom, a disposition.Miles wrote: ↑Sat Aug 14, 2021 4:11 pm .
Assuming choice is possible, how does a person go about freely choosing to believe in god?
Is such a thing even possible? Doesn't there have to be an overwhelmingly convincing element that comes into play before such a belief can take place? And why would we settle on that particular element rather than some other element, which might not be convincing at all? Wouldn't picking that convincing element because that's what it is, be stacking the deck? And how would we become aware of such an element?
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Disposition being a person's inherent qualities of mind and character.
[source: Oxford Languages]
Acceptance being agreement with or belief in an idea, opinion, or explanation.
[source: Oxford Languages]
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