Why is killing wrong?

[scorpia]

Well? Why is it, outside of religion? It is according to the law of my country, mostly, outside of debates such as euthenasia or self-defence. But then there's other countries, where it's legal say for a woman who caught her husband cheating to kill him. It's fine for them to do so in a jealous rage. Why not elsewhere? Becase it's appallling? What about the other emotions involved? How about how the jealous wife feels?

[achilles12604]

Good question. I can only answer in regards to my own limitations. First, let me state that I don't believe that religion (Christianity to be specific) does value life. I regard many of the teachings of Christ as saying life isn't valuable, that one shouldn't strive to live a long life, but a worthy one. So it isn't how long you live, but what you do in that time that matters to Christ. He warns against gaining earthly treasures because your ultimate "life" doesn't begin until after death and entrance to "eternal life".

Now, back to why killing is wrong. Because I don't see anything as greater than life. To kill another is regarding their life as worthless. It is a statement saying that this person no longer has any importance in mankind and devalues the overall worth of that person. It is one thing if you are respecting the wishes of the person in question by not going to extraordinary measures to save them if they are suffering (regardless of what their "suffering" is). But to actively kill one against their wishes is basically saying that their life isn't worth yours. How much more can you devalue one if you say they aren't worth wasting oxygen on?

My intention is not to drag this off topic but I must ask if nothing is greater than life does this include quality of life?

Jesus came so we could "have life more abundently", to have a higher quality of life through interaction with God. You refered to this with this statement

"I regard many of the teachings of Christ as saying life isn't valuable, that one shouldn't strive to live a long life, but a worthy one. "

Now if Life itself is more precious than quality of life, how does this translate for you to your line of work? I know you work in the ER and you probably have seen some really interesting things. Hypothetically if someone came in and was going to be a vegetable (Terry for example), wouldn't it be more humane of us to allow said person to die? In this case wouldn't quality of life and amount of suffering be of more value than the actual life itself?

Quality of life is a very relevant factor. Life is complex, not something that is only distinctive to length. Once you deem life as no longer important, you have that right to choose to end it by refusing life sustaining procedures, etc... However, this is your choice, not anothers. We have living wills, power of attorneys, etc.. to hypothetically (since it isn't always respected) ensure your wishes are carried out. Either way, no one is taking your life.

Yes, quality of life is an issue. But I think I addressed it pretty well above. I should have clarified my post a little better. When I say life is the most important thing, I can only define it in terms of my own interpretations. Yes, life is the most important. That encompasses all its parameters. Life is lived to its greatest extent at which point it must be determined by each individual when it is no longer a life but instead a suffering existence. The overwhelming emphasis is placed on choice. If you choose, as a stranger or even one who knows me but not respecting my choices as laid out in my living will, to end my life or continue it despite my directions, then you are no longer respecting my life. You are placing my life in your parameters. You devalue my life by doing so.

Thank you for the clarification. I think I understand now.

One could argue that your interpretation of the value of life is addressed via quality of life in your above statement. But I can't seem to grab that. Instead, I see few passages in which Christ actually stressed abundance of life in regards to length or quality as opposed to stressing how this material life shouldn't be valued, rather tolerated and lived in meekness to prove our worthiness of this ultimate "eternal life". I can't think of one passage that actually encourages the poor and the meek to strive for equality and advancement of ones position or class. Perhaps you can help me here????

I can try but I fear I shall fail as my views on this matter are severally colored (biased) by the holy spirit and my preconceptions of the afterlife.

I see few passages in which Christ actually stressed abundance of life in regards to length or quality as opposed to stressing how this material life shouldn't be valued, rather tolerated and lived in meekness to prove our worthiness of this ultimate "eternal life".

This part is where I take a much different view. I read those passages not as instructions but rather as reminders. Just as a map is different than a photograph so are his teachings concerning "earning" eternal life, and how to live this one.

I see his teachings as reminders that no matter how crummy this life becomes, we can always be happy because we are looking forward to such better things to come. Hence when he teaches things like Matthew 6: 25-24

25"Therefore I tell you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat or drink; or about your body, what you will wear. Is not life more important than food, and the body more important than clothes? 26Look at the birds of the air; they do not sow or reap or store away in barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not much more valuable than they? 27Who of you by worrying can add a single hour to his life?

28"And why do you worry about clothes? See how the lilies of the field grow. They do not labor or spin. 29Yet I tell you that not even Solomon in all his splendor was dressed like one of these. 30If that is how God clothes the grass of the field, which is here today and tomorrow is thrown into the fire, will he not much more clothe you, O you of little faith? 31So do not worry, saying, 'What shall we eat?' or 'What shall we drink?' or 'What shall we wear?' 32For the pagans run after all these things, and your heavenly Father knows that you need them. 33But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well. 34Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own.

I do not read this as "Don't try to survive because God will take care of everything for you" (roadmap view). I read this as "When things are rough don't worry because you know God loves you and he will take care of you." (Photograph view).

Am I making any sense at all?

[Greatest I Am]

Unfortunately there are countries that don't even recognize certain groups as human. There will always be murder that's a fact. We just haven't found the proper punishment for it. I believe in the death penalty for murderers but that doesn't agree with a lot of people.

I know of no country that nowadays does not recognize that we are all humans.
There are countries where people don't care. Most of the killing that you refer to is caused by poverty and lack of education.

Punishment may not be the answer. It does not seem to work.

Regards
DL

[Greatest I Am]

All should recognize the sanctity of life.

Should. Always that magic word; should.

Why?

Will others respect your life if you do not respect theirs. Of course not.
We need to recognize the sanctity of life because we only have one and it can be lost.

Creation is a wonderful thing, and when a lot of effort and work goes into creating something such as life it's like a cake too good looking to eat.

Yes, I have eaten many that were too good to eat.

But then there's other life like the fly in my room, and I just go ahead and kill it. Why? Flies are required in the environment, they help to decompose dead matter. But all I cared about was that it was annoying and disgusting me.

No wrong here.

All in all, it's rather hard to value life when said life ticks you off.

Think how life would be if things that tic you off where not present. Truth now. No off the hip comment.

Regards
DL

[Greatest I Am]

If I understand the question correctly, killing is wrong because society has defined it to be wrong by consensus. That's my opinion anyway. Frankly, I don't like it much, but I still think it's true .

The wrongness of the act would have to be apparent before consensus could be built against it. No?

Regards
DL

[scorpia]

Think how life would be if things that tic you off where not present. Truth now. No off the hip comment.

I'll do my best;

I don't know; Heaven? Totalitarian? Both?

Irritable as I am sometimes, to get rid of all those things which "tick me off" would require an amount of control over everything that everyone would find distasteful. And I suppose that should stop me from wanting it, but it doesn't. It may be wrong, at least to general populace, but it's still tempting. I wonder if, deep down, others feel the same?

Now, back to why killing is wrong. Because I don't see anything as greater than life. To kill another is regarding their life as worthless.

But then, why should one respect said life?

[Confused]

Confused wrote:Now, back to why killing is wrong. Because I don't see anything as greater than life. To kill another is regarding their life as worthless.

Scorpia wrote:
But then, why should one respect said life?

I think answered this with the first quote: because nothing is greater than life.

[scorpia]

I think answered this with the first quote: because nothing is greater than life.

Ah, sorry, missed that.

Well then, what if you did find something greater than life? What if you found something so irresistable?

[Confused]

I think answered this with the first quote: because nothing is greater than life.

Ah, sorry, missed that.

Well then, what if you did find something greater than life? What if you found something so irresistable?

Then I may have to review my current thoughts and revise them. I can't imagine I would ever find something of greater importance though. To get deeper than life, I think you would have to go into the spiritual realm. Perhaps to a soul. There are way to many complications added if one has to consider metaphysical constructs over physical realities. I can't conceptualize what a soul is, though I have followed the thread. For these limitations, as I stated in my first post, I can only answer it within the limitation of my own concepts.

[scorpia]

Then I may have to review my current thoughts and revise them. I can't imagine I would ever find something of greater importance though. To get deeper than life, I think you would have to go into the spiritual realm. Perhaps to a soul. There are way to many complications added if one has to consider metaphysical constructs over physical realities. I can't conceptualize what a soul is, though I have followed the thread. For these limitations, as I stated in my first post, I can only answer it within the limitation of my own concepts.

Of course there's that.

Then there's the nice roast that's obviously more greater than life since it is more important to be eaten than to consider the fluffball it came from. Lambs aren't worthy enough to live.

[Confused]

Then I may have to review my current thoughts and revise them. I can't imagine I would ever find something of greater importance though. To get deeper than life, I think you would have to go into the spiritual realm. Perhaps to a soul. There are way to many complications added if one has to consider metaphysical constructs over physical realities. I can't conceptualize what a soul is, though I have followed the thread. For these limitations, as I stated in my first post, I can only answer it within the limitation of my own concepts.

Of course there's that.

Then there's the nice roast that's obviously more greater than life since it is more important to be eaten than to consider the fluffball it came from. Lambs aren't worthy enough to live.

I knew I should be eating more meat for a reason . Yes, my view is obviously reflective of anthropocentric ( ughh, gurgle mouthwash to rinse the bad taste out) rather than a biocentric view. Guilty are charged. I shouldn't place more value on human life than life in general. A fallacy that despite frequent reassessment I can't seem to shed.