Racism in America - How should we address it?

[otseng]

George Floyds Murder Shows Once More That We Cannot Wait For White America to End Racism

George Floyd was murdered, and it was captured on camera. Minneapolis police officer Derek Chauvin had his knee pinned against Floyds neck for close to eight minutes. We heard a haunting repetition of the words "I cant breathe." Floyd cried out for his deceased mother and called out for his children as he desperately clung to life. Chauvin sat there, smug, hand in his pocket, with little regard for the man dying underneath the pressure of his knee. All of this over someone allegedly trying to use a counterfeit twenty-dollar bill at a local deli.

For debate:
- How should we address the racism in America?

[koko]

How should we address racism?

Herman Melville looked to the Bible for the appropriate lesson. In Moby Dick he presented Father Mapple (a black man described as having "large brown hands"* and a "swarthy"** forehead) who found the solution to the present discord we have on the USA:


Starboard gangway, there! side away to larboardlarboard gangway to starboard! Midships! midships!


In modern English: those of you on the extreme right (starboard), those of you on the extreme left (larboard) move to the center (midships) of the pews. STOP BEING EXTREME is his message.


Then this black man repeatedly calls his parishioners "shipmates" and gives a moral lesson on how everyone is subjected to the same immutable divine laws. That in that day and age of slavery where some regarded themselves as better than those who were darker, the Bible teaches that all are equal. Once this truth is fully recognized and dealt with accordingly, that is when society will be better.













* He paused a little; then kneeling in the pulpits bows, folded his large brown hands across his chest

** the thunders that rolled away from off his swarthy brow

[Quantrill]

If you insist on believing your clearly erroneous views, then so be it. As it says in the Bible, "let every man be persuaded in his heart". Romans 14:5

My views are Scriptural therefore not erroneous.

Quantrill

[Quantrill]

I have never seen blacks call God a racist. Ditto for Antifa. Let us see probative examples to justify this claim.

That's because blacks and people like you teach a PC Christianity. Just tell them God blessed the white people in Christianizing Europe when Paul wanted to go to Asia. (Acts 16:6-10)And point out how Africa is from Noah's son Ham, who received no blessing and a curse. Point out that Europe is from Noah's son Japheth, who received blessing from God along with Shem. (Gen. 9:24-29)

Don't forget how God chose the Jews over all other peoples. So much for 'equality'. And lest I forget, tell them about how God institutionalized slavery.

So, what do you think about these truths I just gave you? Do you believe God did these?

Quantrill

[Quantrill]

To gauge where you were coming from.


Are you aware of the forum rules? They are very particular in regard to your type of argument.

15. It is not permitted to say another person or group is not a Christian or call them a cult if the person or group identifies as Christian (this includes Catholics, Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, or any group that claims to be Christian). [link]

The opinion you follow in relation to 'what is a [true] Christian' doesn't belong as acceptable argument on this board, as far as the rules go.


Correct. I did not write that it was. What I wrote was that such conditions ("you are not my brother because [__________]" ) invite the type of attitude Racism thrives on... . I address it in theses terms.

Recognizing a distinction between a Christian and non-christian can only serve to support such attitudes which produce racism, because it leaves room for it to do so. It is a natural follow-through. Once one allows and supports distinctions as acceptable, one naturally inclines to the reprehensible...

What your opinion here is promoting/arguing for, is that non-theists "don't matter" on account that they are not your brothers.

Indeed, your opinion even promotes that "Christians who are not like me, don't matter" on account that they are not your brothers.

And what type of argument would that be. I was answering 'your' question.

I think I was very clear, much more than you are being. I don't know if you're Christian or not. My point is that I am brother to Christians only. I am not brother to those who are not. If you're not Christian, then you're not my brother. Simple as that.

You brought up the 'brother' thing. Not me. If you don't want to know, then don't ask. What's the problem, you just trying to instigate some argument to get me banned?

If I can't state what I believe the Bible is saying concerning a subject, for fear of getting banned, then I don't belong here anyway. If I can't state what I believe the Bible is saying and who and what is a Christian, then I don't belong here anyway.

One must recognize a distinction between a Christian and non-Christian. To not recognize is foolish. And, for a person who is not a Christian, his view of what a Christian should do, doesn't matter.

Again, you're pushing this brother thing. Not me.

As for racism in America, I'm sure all the PC views will be accepted. But step outside of that, it's ban time.

[William]

To gauge where you were coming from.


Are you aware of the forum rules? They are very particular in regard to your type of argument.

15. It is not permitted to say another person or group is not a Christian or call them a cult if the person or group identifies as Christian (this includes Catholics, Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, or any group that claims to be Christian). [link]

The opinion you follow in relation to 'what is a [true] Christian' doesn't belong as acceptable argument on this board, as far as the rules go.


Correct. I did not write that it was. What I wrote was that such conditions ("you are not my brother because [__________]" ) invite the type of attitude Racism thrives on... . I address it in theses terms.

Recognizing a distinction between a Christian and non-christian can only serve to support such attitudes which produce racism, because it leaves room for it to do so. It is a natural follow-through. Once one allows and supports distinctions as acceptable, one naturally inclines to the reprehensible...

What your opinion here is promoting/arguing for, is that non-theists "don't matter" on account that they are not your brothers.

Indeed, your opinion even promotes that "Christians who are not like me, don't matter" on account that they are not your brothers.

And what type of argument would that be. I was answering 'your' question.

And you answering my Q was a type of argument, and what type of argument your argument was [and continues to be] is one which prepares the ground for the seeds of racism, is my return argument.

I think I was very clear, much more than you are being. I don't know if you're Christian or not. My point is that I am brother to Christians only. I am not brother to those who are not. If you're not Christian, then you're not my brother. Simple as that.

I appreciate it is simply from your perspective but I could hold up a bible in front of a church and get a picture taken and that wouldn't give you an answer to your question.

Equally I could agree that I A M "Born-again" and "Recognize that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and only Saviour" and have "Prayed to God seeking His sacrifice for me" but what would that prove as it is mere hearsay.

For all we know, I might have a completely different idea of what "Born Again" means to your own. Then what should we do? Continue to place Botherhood to one side while we work it out? And if we cannot agree? We are "not Brothers"?

You brought up the 'brother' thing. Not me.

Actually the Thread Topic quite naturally has to factor in the brotherhood. Your own argument appears to factor it out altogether, or perhaps sorting brotherhoods into various levels.

I myself am coming from the naturalist perspective that we are all basically the same in makeup, and all start out the same in position of total ignorance. Anything branching out from that point is questionable.

But truthfully Jesus brought up the subject of brotherhood and placed himself as the only judge on the matter, because it was related to whom he calls his brother/mother/ etc...that Christians might disagree is therefore besides the point.

If you don't want to know, then don't ask.

I do want to know. The thread has a person claiming to be a "Christian" telling us that we are not all Brothers. I want to know why this argument should be accepted.

What's the problem, you just trying to instigate some argument to get me banned?

I am no prophet, but am capable of reading the signs and the patterns...which gives me a semblance. I can say that if you do not change the sharpness of your approach you will most likely crash and burn of your own making.
I say this mainly because I have witnessed this type of approach before and it always ends in the same way.

The evidence can be traced from [here] if you want to learn more for yourself.

If I can't state what I believe the Bible is saying concerning a subject, for fear of getting banned, then I don't belong here anyway. If I can't state what I believe the Bible is saying and who and what is a Christian, then I don't belong here anyway.

One must recognize a distinction between a Christian and non-Christian. To not recognize is foolish. And, for a person who is not a Christian, his view of what a Christian should do, doesn't matter.

Again, you're pushing this brother thing. Not me.

As for racism in America, I'm sure all the PC views will be accepted. But step outside of that, it's ban time.

*nods* All your choice. I hope you have success finding where you do belong if it turns out it is not here.

[emilynghiem]

The best way I know to address it is to facilitate people in groups
to share their experiences, concerns and solutions in a constructive safe environment:
www.centerhealingracism.org SEE "GUIDELINES" below used to train and facilitate people in forums
for constructive healing dialogue.

As for practical actions, I recommend anyone with contacts with local
PARTY PRECINCTS organize meetings to create COOPERATIVES for
managing Schools, medical support, and Law Enforcement by District.
www.medcoops.info www.ppcwebsite.org
www.campusplan.org www.paceuniversal.com
By reforming communities around existing public schools and police,
businesses and churches, the people in each district can best
address their own concerns and issues. and implement solutions as a team.

www.isocracytx.net/hp-org/CHRguide.html

GUIDELINES FOR SHARING

We have come together to try to learn about the disease of racism and promote a healing process.

Sharing is voluntary.

We want to create a safe, loving and respectful atmosphere.

Sharing is about one's own feelings, experiences, perceptions, etc.

We are not always going to agree or see everything the same way and that's O.K.

Each person has a right to and responsibility for his or her own feelings, thoughts, and beliefs.

It is important to avoid criticism or judgement about another person's sharing, point of view, and/or feelings.

Avoid getting tied up in debate and argument. It rarely changes anything or anyone and tends to ultimately inhibit the sharing.

We can only change ourselves. Our change and growth may, however, inspire someone else.

Refrain from singling out any individual as "representing" his or her group or issue.

It is important to give full attention to whomever is talking.

Feelings are important.

We will surely make mistakes in our efforts, but mistakes are occasions for learning and forgiving.

We may laugh and cry together, share pain, joy, fear, or anger.

Hopefully we will leave these meetings with a deeper understanding and a renewed hope for the future of humanity.
===============================

How should we address racism?

Herman Melville looked to the Bible for the appropriate lesson. In Moby Dick he presented Father Mapple (a black man described as having "large brown hands"* and a "swarthy"** forehead) who found the solution to the present discord we have on the USA:


Starboard gangway, there! side away to larboardlarboard gangway to starboard! Midships! midships!


In modern English: those of you on the extreme right (starboard), those of you on the extreme left (larboard) move to the center (midships) of the pews. STOP BEING EXTREME is his message.


Then this black man repeatedly calls his parishioners "shipmates" and gives a moral lesson on how everyone is subjected to the same immutable divine laws. That in that day and age of slavery where some regarded themselves as better than those who were darker, the Bible teaches that all are equal. Once this truth is fully recognized and dealt with accordingly, that is when society will be better.













* He paused a little; then kneeling in the pulpits bows, folded his large brown hands across his chest

** the thunders that rolled away from off his swarthy brow

[Quantrill]

And you answering my Q was a type of argument, and what type of argument your argument was [and continues to be] is one which prepares the ground for the seeds of racism, is my return argument.


I appreciate it is simply from your perspective but I could hold up a bible in front of a church and get a picture taken and that wouldn't give you an answer to your question.

Equally I could agree that I A M "Born-again" and "Recognize that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and only Saviour" and have "Prayed to God seeking His sacrifice for me" but what would that prove as it is mere hearsay.

For all we know, I might have a completely different idea of what "Born Again" means to your own. Then what should we do? Continue to place Botherhood to one side while we work it out? And if we cannot agree? We are "not Brothers"?


Actually the Thread Topic quite naturally has to factor in the brotherhood. Your own argument appears to factor it out altogether, or perhaps sorting brotherhoods into various levels.

I myself am coming from the naturalist perspective that we are all basically the same in makeup, and all start out the same in position of total ignorance. Anything branching out from that point is questionable.

But truthfully Jesus brought up the subject of brotherhood and placed himself as the only judge on the matter, because it was related to whom he calls his brother/mother/ etc...that Christians might disagree is therefore besides the point.



I do want to know. The thread has a person claiming to be a "Christian" telling us that we are not all Brothers. I want to know why this argument should be accepted.



I am no prophet, but am capable of reading the signs and the patterns...which gives me a semblance. I can say that if you do not change the sharpness of your approach you will most likely crash and burn of your own making.
I say this mainly because I have witnessed this type of approach before and it always ends in the same way.

The evidence can be traced from [here] if you want to learn more for yourself.



*nods* All your choice. I hope you have success finding where you do belong if it turns out it is not here.

I have said very plainly that only Christians are my brothers and sisters. Where you find yourself in that statement is up to you. What type of argument you can find to present in that statement is up to you. You asked. And I told you.

I didn't say you had no brothers. I said I wasn't one of them. Should that mean I cannot voice an opinion in this debate forum? In other words, I have to agree with you and all your brothers on how the argument will proceed. What kind of a debate is that? You surely feel you are right and so must make sure no one questions that. That would be too 'sharp' a response.

If you're not willing to allow another opinion, even one that you may hate and despise, what good is a debate. All you have done is to try and set a foundation for the debate to travel the direction you want it to go. And in so doing placed me under threat of being banned if I don't follow your line of thinking. You just want a 'yes' man.

Quantrill

[William]

To gauge where you were coming from.


Are you aware of the forum rules? They are very particular in regard to your type of argument.

15. It is not permitted to say another person or group is not a Christian or call them a cult if the person or group identifies as Christian (this includes Catholics, Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, or any group that claims to be Christian). [link]

The opinion you follow in relation to 'what is a [true] Christian' doesn't belong as acceptable argument on this board, as far as the rules go.


Correct. I did not write that it was. What I wrote was that such conditions ("you are not my brother because [__________]" ) invite the type of attitude Racism thrives on... . I address it in theses terms.

Recognizing a distinction between a Christian and non-christian can only serve to support such attitudes which produce racism, because it leaves room for it to do so. It is a natural follow-through. Once one allows and supports distinctions as acceptable, one naturally inclines to the reprehensible...

What your opinion here is promoting/arguing for, is that non-theists "don't matter" on account that they are not your brothers.

Indeed, your opinion even promotes that "Christians who are not like me, don't matter" on account that they are not your brothers.

And what type of argument would that be. I was answering 'your' question.

And you answering my Q was a type of argument, and what type of argument your argument was [and continues to be] is one which prepares the ground for the seeds of racism, is my return argument.

I think I was very clear, much more than you are being. I don't know if you're Christian or not. My point is that I am brother to Christians only. I am not brother to those who are not. If you're not Christian, then you're not my brother. Simple as that.

I appreciate it is simply from your perspective but I could hold up a bible in front of a church and get a picture taken and that wouldn't give you an answer to your question.

Equally I could agree that I A M "Born-again" and "Recognize that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and only Saviour" and have "Prayed to God seeking His sacrifice for me" but what would that prove as it is mere hearsay.

For all we know, I might have a completely different idea of what "Born Again" means to your own. Then what should we do? Continue to place Botherhood to one side while we work it out? And if we cannot agree? We are "not Brothers"?

You brought up the 'brother' thing. Not me.

Actually the Thread Topic quite naturally has to factor in the brotherhood. Your own argument appears to factor it out altogether, or perhaps sorting brotherhoods into various levels.

I myself am coming from the naturalist perspective that we are all basically the same in makeup, and all start out the same in position of total ignorance. Anything branching out from that point is questionable.

But truthfully Jesus brought up the subject of brotherhood and placed himself as the only judge on the matter, because it was related to whom he calls his brother/mother/ etc...that Christians might disagree is therefore besides the point.

If you don't want to know, then don't ask.

I do want to know. The thread has a person claiming to be a "Christian" telling us that we are not all Brothers. I want to know why this argument should be accepted.

What's the problem, you just trying to instigate some argument to get me banned?

I am no prophet, but am capable of reading the signs and the patterns...which gives me a semblance. I can say that if you do not change the sharpness of your approach you will most likely crash and burn of your own making.
I say this mainly because I have witnessed this type of approach before and it always ends in the same way.

The evidence can be traced from [here] if you want to learn more for yourself.

If I can't state what I believe the Bible is saying concerning a subject, for fear of getting banned, then I don't belong here anyway. If I can't state what I believe the Bible is saying and who and what is a Christian, then I don't belong here anyway.

One must recognize a distinction between a Christian and non-Christian. To not recognize is foolish. And, for a person who is not a Christian, his view of what a Christian should do, doesn't matter.

Again, you're pushing this brother thing. Not me.

As for racism in America, I'm sure all the PC views will be accepted. But step outside of that, it's ban time.

*nods* All your choice. I hope you have success finding where you do belong if it turns out it is not here.

I have said very plainly that only Christians are my brothers and sisters. Where you find yourself in that statement is up to you. What type of argument you can find to present in that statement is up to you. You asked. And I told you.

I didn't say you had no brothers. I said I wasn't one of them. Should that mean I cannot voice an opinion in this debate forum? In other words, I have to agree with you and all your brothers on how the argument will proceed. What kind of a debate is that? You surely feel you are right and so must make sure no one questions that. That would be too 'sharp' a response.

If you're not willing to allow another opinion, even one that you may hate and despise, what good is a debate. All you have done is to try and set a foundation for the debate to travel the direction you want it to go. And in so doing placed me under threat of being banned if I don't follow your line of thinking. You just want a 'yes' man.

I am satisfied that you do not wish me to refer to you as "Brother" and I am not here to push anyone's buttons, so will not be doing so. I have said what I have to say regarding this and there is no need for me to say more than that.

The sharpness of your decent requires adjusting and it is a neighborly thing for me to try and help. If the bridge is out I would try to tell anyone who might listen. If some would ask me first for credentials before they consider my opinion is worth listening to, and drive on because I have nothing they consider of value to offer, then whatever fate awaits them through that decision, is theirs to own.

Go well.

[emilynghiem]

And you answering my Q was a type of argument, and what type of argument your argument was [and continues to be] is one which prepares the ground for the seeds of racism, is my return argument.


I appreciate it is simply from your perspective but I could hold up a bible in front of a church and get a picture taken and that wouldn't give you an answer to your question.

Equally I could agree that I A M "Born-again" and "Recognize that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and only Saviour" and have "Prayed to God seeking His sacrifice for me" but what would that prove as it is mere hearsay.

For all we know, I might have a completely different idea of what "Born Again" means to your own. Then what should we do? Continue to place Botherhood to one side while we work it out? And if we cannot agree? We are "not Brothers"?


Actually the Thread Topic quite naturally has to factor in the brotherhood. Your own argument appears to factor it out altogether, or perhaps sorting brotherhoods into various levels.

I myself am coming from the naturalist perspective that we are all basically the same in makeup, and all start out the same in position of total ignorance. Anything branching out from that point is questionable.

But truthfully Jesus brought up the subject of brotherhood and placed himself as the only judge on the matter, because it was related to whom he calls his brother/mother/ etc...that Christians might disagree is therefore besides the point.



I do want to know. The thread has a person claiming to be a "Christian" telling us that we are not all Brothers. I want to know why this argument should be accepted.



I am no prophet, but am capable of reading the signs and the patterns...which gives me a semblance. I can say that if you do not change the sharpness of your approach you will most likely crash and burn of your own making.
I say this mainly because I have witnessed this type of approach before and it always ends in the same way.

The evidence can be traced from [here] if you want to learn more for yourself.



*nods* All your choice. I hope you have success finding where you do belong if it turns out it is not here.

I have said very plainly that only Christians are my brothers and sisters. Where you find yourself in that statement is up to you. What type of argument you can find to present in that statement is up to you. You asked. And I told you.

I didn't say you had no brothers. I said I wasn't one of them. Should that mean I cannot voice an opinion in this debate forum? In other words, I have to agree with you and all your brothers on how the argument will proceed. What kind of a debate is that? You surely feel you are right and so must make sure no one questions that. That would be too 'sharp' a response.

If you're not willing to allow another opinion, even one that you may hate and despise, what good is a debate. All you have done is to try and set a foundation for the debate to travel the direction you want it to go. And in so doing placed me under threat of being banned if I don't follow your line of thinking. You just want a 'yes' man.

Quantrill

Dear Quantrill
I have found Muslims and even Atheists who, because they did not reject Jesus,
but agreed to follow Scripture and receive Children of God,
operate as equal neighbors in Christ although not identifying as Christian literally.

Do you see "secular gentiles" who agree with and reconcile with Christians
but may not adopt Jesus and the laws directly
as Neighbors in Christ?

That is what I call "secular gentiles" who live by Natural Laws and believe
in Peace and Justice, or Restorative Justice, but may not call this "Jesus."

Would you accept to treat such people as Neighbors in Christ
who believe that Jesus means JUSTICE and believe in that principle
as Secular Gentiles following Natural Laws governed by Jesus as "Authority of Justice"?

[Quantrill]

Dear Quantrill
I have found Muslims and even Atheists who, because they did not reject Jesus,
but agreed to follow Scripture and receive Children of God,
operate as equal neighbors in Christ although not identifying as Christian literally.

Do you see "secular gentiles" who agree with and reconcile with Christians
but may not adopt Jesus and the laws directly
as Neighbors in Christ?

That is what I call "secular gentiles" who live by Natural Laws and believe
in Peace and Justice, or Restorative Justice, but may not call this "Jesus."

Would you accept to treat such people as Neighbors in Christ
who believe that Jesus means JUSTICE and believe in that principle
as Secular Gentiles following Natural Laws governed by Jesus as "Authority of Justice"?

Had you only asked me if I could be 'neighbor' to a Muslim or Atheist, the answer is yes, to the best of my ability. But you have included so many oxymorons and descriptions that it is impossible to answer.

You say, 'Muslims and Atheist's who do not reject Jesus'. But, they do reject Jesus.
You say, 'Muslims and Atheist's who agree to follow Scripture'. But they don't agree to follow Scripture.
You say, 'Muslims and Atheist's who agree to receive the children of God'. What does this mean?
You say, these 'Muslims and Atheists operate as equal neighbors in Christ'. Each can be a neighbor, but each is not in Christ.

As I said, I can be a 'neighbor' to any. But my being a 'neighbor' doesn't include them as Christian. Why should it need to?

As far as 'natural laws, peace, and justice', I don't call them Jesus either.

As I have said, I can be neighbor to any. But I do not treat them as 'in Christ' as they are not 'in Christ'. They can believe as they wish, but they would not be 'in Christ'.

I do not say these things to 'offend'. Yet I have learned these things are offensive to many. But I cannot deny my faith in Christ and the Bible.

Quantrill