Santa, do Christians believe in him? If not, why not.

dangerdan · Post by **dangerdan** » Tue Nov 02, 2004 10:48 pm

Ok, you're probably wondering what Santa has to do with Christianity? bear with me here....

The topic of Santa was brought up in the thread "Everyone should be agnostic?, and with it brought some interesting topics to do with belief systems, well worthy of a new thread.

Now why is this in a Christianity forum? I think it has some rich insights into Christian epistemology - why they believe in some things and not others. I was pondering putting this in the philosophy sub-forum, but I feel it’s more relating to pure Christian thought (though if moderators feel otherwise then that's ok).

So, let the debate begin! I do not intend the question to be demeaning or disrespectful, but merely a candid enquiry. So with no further ado - Do Christians believe in Santa? If not, why not.

AB · Post by AB » Sat Oct 21, 2006 12:25 am

Arch wrote:
Madeline wrote:I do find that God and Santa have one thing in common, they both give gifts. God gives spiritual gifts and answered prayers.

Love,
Madeline
I find that the Christian GOD and Santa have a lot more in common than just gifts. They both don't exist. They both are creations of men. They both are designed under unreal concepts like ALL GOOD and ALL KNOWING.

And both can be explained only in the context of belief.

If God is designed by unreal concepts, why then would someone like Moses take a nation of people out from slavery into a hard journey to promise due to the instruction of his God. Seems like a big time real live sacrifice. Given those facts, there has to be something to "I Am". And I doubt Sant Claus compares.

Goat · Post by **Goat** » Sat Oct 21, 2006 9:06 am

AB wrote:
McCulloch wrote:
McCulloch wrote:I have never allowed or encouraged my kids to believe in Santa Claus.
Lotan wrote:My 10 year old still claims to believe, based on the logic that if you don't believe in Santa, he won't bring you any toys. It's an irrefutable argument!
This is the kind of self-deception that is essential for religion. Santa is an opportunity to get your children practiced in this art from an early age. My kids got and still get "Santa" presents regardless of belief. I don't encourage belief in falsehoods. Sadly, many households do with the Santa myth.
So, are you saying accepting Jesus as your savior is an act promoted by deception?

My personal belief is it self deception.

bernee51 · Post by **bernee51** » Sat Oct 21, 2006 9:20 am

AB wrote: If God is designed by unreal concepts, why then would someone like Moses take a nation of people out from slavery into a hard journey to promise due to the instruction of his God. .

Because it is a story, it is fictitious, it didn't happen. It is legend to create a history.

McCulloch · Post by **McCulloch** » Sat Oct 21, 2006 9:37 am

McCulloch wrote:This is the kind of self-deception that is essential for religion. Santa is an opportunity to get your children practiced in this art from an early age. My kids got and still get "Santa" presents regardless of belief. I don't encourage belief in falsehoods. Sadly, many households do with the Santa myth.

AB wrote:So, are you saying accepting Jesus as your savior is an act promoted by deception?

Yes, self-deception. First, you must convince yourself, contrary to all evidence that there is a continuation of your own existence after death. This kind of self-deception, wishful thinking, is quite common.
Then contrary to evidence, you extend the useful human social concepts of justice, love and forgiveness beyond human society to the universe.

AB · Post by AB » Sat Oct 21, 2006 9:59 am

bernee51 wrote:
AB wrote: If God is designed by unreal concepts, why then would someone like Moses take a nation of people out from slavery into a hard journey to promise due to the instruction of his God. .
Because it is a story, it is fictitious, it didn't happen. It is legend to create a history.

Now I understand your comments. Plainly, you don't think i t all happened. So, the Hebrews didn't leave Egypt and travel to Canaan. Better yet, there were no Hebrews in the Goshen area of Egypt at all? So, you think King David didn't exist too? So, Bablyon annexation of Jerusalem didn't happen either? Really? So, there was no Persian dominance at that time? It was just fiction?

AB · Post by AB » Sat Oct 21, 2006 10:06 am

McCulloch wrote:
McCulloch wrote:This is the kind of self-deception that is essential for religion. Santa is an opportunity to get your children practiced in this art from an early age. My kids got and still get "Santa" presents regardless of belief. I don't encourage belief in falsehoods. Sadly, many households do with the Santa myth.

AB wrote:So, are you saying accepting Jesus as your savior is an act promoted by deception?
Yes, self-deception. First, you must convince yourself, contrary to all evidence that there is a continuation of your own existence after death. This kind of self-deception, wishful thinking, is quite common.
Then contrary to evidence, you extend the useful human social concepts of justice, love and forgiveness beyond human society to the universe.

I never went through the process of "convicing myself". I was goig to hit on this, but can you clarify what you mean: "contrary to all evidence that there is a continuation of your own existence after death"? So far, none of your explanation has applied.

McCulloch · Post by **McCulloch** » Sat Oct 21, 2006 10:23 am

AB wrote:I never went through the process of "convicing myself". I was goig to hit on this, but can you clarify what you mean: "contrary to all evidence that there is a continuation of your own existence after death"? So far, none of your explanation has applied.

If you believe that your existence continues after your death, you had to somehow arrive at this belief. The evidence, rotting bodies etc point to the conclusion that when we are dead, we are dead. What evidence is there that your existence continues after you are dead? None.

AB · Post by AB » Sat Oct 21, 2006 6:14 pm

McCulloch wrote:
AB wrote:I never went through the process of "convicing myself". I was goig to hit on this, but can you clarify what you mean: "contrary to all evidence that there is a continuation of your own existence after death"? So far, none of your explanation has applied.
If you believe that your existence continues after your death, you had to somehow arrive at this belief. The evidence, rotting bodies etc point to the conclusion that when we are dead, we are dead. What evidence is there that your existence continues after you are dead? None.

You are correct that there is no "evidence" as I believe you define it for debating. But, that does not mean or prove we do not continue after our body death. When it comes to that criteria, the debate is even.

McCulloch · Post by **McCulloch** » Sun Oct 22, 2006 9:33 pm

McCulloch wrote:If you believe that your existence continues after your death, you had to somehow arrive at this belief. The evidence, rotting bodies etc point to the conclusion that when we are dead, we are dead. What evidence is there that your existence continues after you are dead? None.

AB wrote:You are correct that there is no "evidence" as I believe you define it for debating. But, that does not mean or prove we do not continue after our body death. When it comes to that criteria, the debate is even.

You admit to believing in something with no evidence. Then you seem to make the assumption that given two options: continued existence after death OR cessation of personal existence after death, that without evidence they are equally likely. This is not so. There is no reason to believe in the oxymoronic idea of life after death. Everything we know about life is that it ends with death. Rational belief in the continuation of our personal existence after death requires evidence.