Is apologetics a science?

[McCulloch]

Christian apologetics have always been a form of cognitive science.

Question for debate: Can Christian apologetics be considered a discipline within the field of cognitive science?

[jcrawford]

One facet of the human mind which was discovered by Sigmund Freud....

Thanks Sigmund! If left undiscovered we would still be mindless I guess.

Some people still are , regardless of what Sigmund might or might not have 'discovered'.

Some people think that their minds exist in their brains somewhere and that their brains do all their thinking for them.

[jcrawford]

One last argument, does dementia affect your SOUL? when your intelligence and cognition declines after brain injury does that affect your soul too? Do drugs that alter your awareness affect your SOUL? do chemicals that are natural affect your supernatural and immaterial SOUL?

Affirmative to all the above.

Cause they do affect cognition that you attribute to your SOUL.

Proof enough of the existence of my SOUL, since my brain knows none of the above but only serves as an informational conduit to my SOUL in the same way that computer circuits relay information all over the Internet.

So finally man, GO SELL CRAZY SOMEWHERE ELSE BECAUSE WE'RE NOT BYING HERE.

Hey man, I was invited here by McCulloch, so don't be rude to his guests or to any other Christians who are invited to post in civil debate on these forums, or else we shall just have to regard you as a poor debater with nothing better to do than to peddle your own delusions and other forms of insanity.

Besides, I offer nothing for sale or for a fee, unlike most deluded psychologists and psychiatrists who profit from driving other people crazy and then mentally lobotomizing them.

[Goat]

One facet of the human mind which was discovered by Sigmund Freud....

Thanks Sigmund! If left undiscovered we would still be mindless I guess.

Some people still are , regardless of what Sigmund might or might not have 'discovered'.

Some people think that their minds exist in their brains somewhere and that their brains do all their thinking for them.

And what objective evidence do you have this is not the case? I can demonstrate that people's emotions and thinking are altered by modifying the brain.. either through physical damage, altering it's biochemistry via drugs, or throught stimulation to various parts of the brain via electrodes or magnetic pulses.

What test do you have that shows that the mind is not a property of the connections and biochemistry of the brain? How do you show that the mind has any properties that is seperate from the brain?

Speculation and belief are nice enough, but there are some claims that are nothing more than a statement of faith.

[Cogitoergosum]

One last argument, does dementia affect your SOUL? when your intelligence and cognition declines after brain injury does that affect your soul too? Do drugs that alter your awareness affect your SOUL? do chemicals that are natural affect your supernatural and immaterial SOUL?

Affirmative to all the above.

I think here you have to stop toying around and tell us what you define as a soul bacuase obviously you are not talking about the christian soul. The fact that your soul can be altered by natural external agents means that soul is natural and not supernatural or metaphysical.

Cause they do affect cognition that you attribute to your SOUL.

Proof enough of the existence of my SOUL, since my brain knows none of the above but only serves as an informational conduit to my SOUL in the same way that computer circuits relay information all over the Internet.

no it is not proof of a soul, it is proof that your brain is the organ responsible for your thought. You'd like to believe you have a soul and so you are deluding yourself. we have a word for that: cognitive dissonance.

Besides, I offer nothing for sale or for a fee, unlike most deluded psychologists and psychiatrists who profit from driving other people crazy and then mentally lobotomizing them.

there is someone deluded here and i don't think it is psychiatrists. But nice prejudice though.

[Confused]

1) Human mind=human brain.

Show me how the brain cognizes the mind, since silence=death.

mind (mind)
1. the organ or seat of consciousness; the faculty, or brain function, by which one is aware of surroundings, and by which one experiences feelings, emotions, and desires, and is able to attend, remember, learn, reason, and make decisions.
2. the organized totality of an organism's mental and psychological processes, conscious and unconscious.
3. the characteristic thought process of a person or group.


Dorland's Medical Dictionary for Health Consumers. © 2007 by Saunders, an imprint of Elsevier, Inc. All rights reserved.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
mind (mnd)
n.
1. The human consciousness that originates in the brain and is manifested especially in thought, perception, emotion, will, memory, and imagination.
2. The collective conscious and unconscious processes in a sentient organism that direct and influence mental and physical behavior.

Medical doctors cannot and do not define my mind for me since they can neither know nor conceive of the thoughts and ideas contained in my mind without my permission to tell them.

2) How does the soul come into cognitive science?

Who is doing the cognizing, you, your brain or your soul?

Once again: mind=brain, brain=mind.

My brain is responding to stimuli to make me cognizant of my awareness. Neurons, neurochemical/transmitters, synapses, hormones, etc.... all the processes that lead me to be aware.

[Confused]

jcrawford

Of course my soul is an "actuality," since I myself am as much a living soul as you are.

No, you are as much a group of living cells as I am.

I am more than just "a group of living cells," like you claim to be, since without a personality, you may be nothing more than an group of living cells.

Since I have yet to hear any convincing argument as to what a soul actually entails, I will have to stick with science on this one and consider that life doens't necessitate a soul.

Biological life neither necessitates nor mandates the need for a soul in animals, but human beings with no souls may have a problem proving that they have even have minds.

In regards to proof: I can see you, I can't see your soul.

You obviously have an advantage over me since I can't see you, but am only communicating with your soul.

How is selection not a natural process?? If I go to the grocery store to buy some apples, will I not select the apples that are the ripest? If I go to the mall to buy a new top, will I not select the top that is appropriate for the weather outdoors? How are these supernatural concepts?

You have to use your supernatural powers of discrimination and decision-making when it comes to selecting a particular apple or "top," otherwise all apples and tops would look the same to you and you couldn't even tell the difference between an apple and "top."

True, a personality may be the closest definition one can use for a soul, but if this is the case, it is weak at best.

Why must I use supernatural powers to know which top is appropriate for the weather outside, or which apple is ripest? I use this funny thing called a brain and knowledge gained over the years to use decision making skills. This proves the brain is able to evolve to accomodate the growth of information, not supernatural powers.

[Confused]

One facet of the human mind which was discovered by Sigmund Freud....

Thanks Sigmund! If left undiscovered we would still be mindless I guess.

I think Sigmund deserves more thanks for his oral fixations on parents more than anything else. Perhaps we are mindless, we just don't know it.

[Confused]

One facet of the human mind which was discovered by Sigmund Freud....

Thanks Sigmund! If left undiscovered we would still be mindless I guess.

Some people still are , regardless of what Sigmund might or might not have 'discovered'.

Some people think that their minds exist in their brains somewhere and that their brains do all their thinking for them.

Actually, I can think of a few testerone ridden men who use "little tom" to do most of their thinking for them. But regardless, as with dementia, alzheimers, and a multitude of other neurological disorders, as certain areas of the brain malfunction: thinking, reasoning, remembering, etc.. are effected. I think that might carry a little weight behind those who think their brain does all their thinking for them (except when in presence of overwhelming estrogen)

[jcrawford]

Some people think that their minds exist in their brains somewhere and that their brains do all their thinking for them.

And what objective evidence do you have this is not the case? I can demonstrate that people's emotions and thinking are altered by modifying the brain.. either through physical damage, altering it's biochemistry via drugs, or throught stimulation to various parts of the brain via electrodes or magnetic pulses.

What test do you have that shows that the mind is not a property of the connections and biochemistry of the brain? How do you show that the mind has any properties that is seperate from the brain?

Willpower would be a case in point unless you choose to credit the brain alone with having the sole capacity to make the choice of "blowing its brains out," so to speak, and snuffing out its life in an act of suicide.

Reducing the human soul and mind to mere functions and fabrications of the brain denies personal responsibilty and choice for any human act. It is tantamount to saying that my brain thought the idea up and told me to do it, which is not much different than saying that the devil made me do it.

[McCulloch]

Willpower would be a case in point unless you choose to credit the brain alone with having the sole capacity to make the choice of "blowing its brains out," so to speak, and snuffing out its life in an act of suicide.

Reducing the human soul and mind to mere functions and fabrications of the brain denies personal responsibilty and choice for any human act. It is tantamount to saying that my brain thought the idea up and told me to do it, which is not much different than saying that the devil made me do it.

No it is not. You have missed that there is no dichotomy.
My brain thought the idea up and provided the neural impulses to my body to carry out the task. The thought and the act are all the responsibility of the human.

My soul thought the idea up and put it into my brain. That is not much different than saying that the devil made me do it.