an Easter question

[Athetotheist]

If temple sacrifices were supposed to end with Jesus as the Messiah being the final and ultimate sacrifice, why does Ezekiel chapter 45 have sacrifices being reinstituted in the messianic age?

[A Freeman]

[Replying to Athetotheist in post #1]

Substitute animal sacrifice was done away with at the cross, and replaced with "self"-sacrifice (see: Matt. 10:38; Matt. 16:24-26; Mark 8:34; Luke 9:23; Luke 14:26-27; Thomas 6:9; Gal. 2:20; Sura 6:162; Sura 92:18-21).

Ezekiel 45, which was written in Babylon while the 2-tribed "House of Judah" was in captivity there, appears to be prophesying about two separate time frames.

Verses 1-8 deal with the Messianic age, i.e. the 1000-year rule of Christ (aka "Summer" and "the Sabbath millennium"), occurring after Judgment Day (SOON). The "Prince" referred to is, of course, Crown Prince Michael, known here on Earth as The Messiah/Christ (The One Whom God anointed to be our King).

From verses 9 onward, to the end of the chapter, the instructions are to the REMNANT of the 2-tribed "House of Judah" that would return to Jerusalem from their captivity in Babylon, to rebuild Solomon's Temple.

[Athetotheist]

[Replying to A Freeman in post #2]

Verses 1-8 deal with the Messianic age, i.e. the 1000-year rule of Christ (aka "Summer" and "the Sabbath millennium"), occurring after Judgment Day (SOON). The "Prince" referred to is, of course, Crown Prince Michael, known here on Earth as The Messiah/Christ (The One Whom God anointed to be our King).

From verses 9 onward, to the end of the chapter, the instructions are to the REMNANT of the 2-tribed "House of Judah" that would return to Jerusalem from their captivity in Babylon, to rebuild Solomon's Temple.

If verses 1-8 are set in the future messianic age with the prince (Messiah) present and verse 9 onward is set among the Jews returning from Babylon to build the second temple, why do verses 17 and 22 place the Messiah in the earlier setting, preparing offerings "to make atonement for the house of Israel" (v.17) and a sin offering for the people and for himself (v. 22)? Is there any record of a Prince/Messiah doing any of the things ascribed to such a figure in the last four verses of Ezekiel 45 at any time during the second temple period?

And if chapter 45 starts out in the future and then jumps back to the past, when are chapters 46-48 set?

[1213]

If temple sacrifices were supposed to end with Jesus as the Messiah being the final and ultimate sacrifice, why does Ezekiel chapter 45 have sacrifices being reinstituted in the messianic age?

There are also other reasons for sacrifices. they can be for example thanksgiving offerings.

Speak to the children of Israel, and tell them, When you are come into the land of your habitations, which I give to you, and will make an offering by fire to Yahweh, a burnt offering, or a sacrifice, to accomplish a vow, or as a freewill-offering, or in your set feasts, to make a sweet savor to Yahweh, of the herd, or of the flock;
Num. 15:2-3
When you sacrifice a sacrifice of thanksgiving to Yahweh, you shall sacrifice it so that you may be accepted. It shall be eaten on the same day; you shall leave none of it until the morning. I am Yahweh.
Lev. 22:29-30
Whoever offers the sacrifice of thanksgiving glorifies me, And prepares his way so that I will show God's salvation to him.
Ps. 50:23

Interesting thing is, the sacrifice was to be eaten the same day. So, to me it sounds almost like there will be a great barbecue feast in the end.

[A Freeman]

[Replying to Athetotheist in post #3]
Q: If verses 1-8 are set in the future messianic age with the prince (Messiah) present and verse 9 onward is set among the Jews returning from Babylon to build the second temple, why do verses 17 and 22 place the Messiah in the earlier setting, preparing offerings "to make atonement for the house of Israel" (v.17) and a sin offering for the people and for himself (v. 22)? Is there any record of a Prince/Messiah doing any of the things ascribed to such a figure in the last four verses of Ezekiel 45 at any time during the second temple period?

A: You do realize that the Spiritual-Being/Soul we refer to as The Messiah/Christ -- the firstborn/first-created Son of God (Col. 1:12-15; Rev. 3:14) -- has been here MANY times over the past 6000 years, and has spoken to and guided ALL of the prophets, don't you?

A few examples:

The Messiah/Christ incarnated inside of Melchizedek (Gen. 14:18-20; John 8:58 KJV; Heb. 6:20 - 7:4);

Genesis 14:18-20
14:18 And Melchizedek king of Salem (Peace) brought forth bread and wine: and he [was] the priest of the Most High God.
14:19 And he blessed him, and said, Blessed [be] Abram by the Most High God, possessor of heaven and earth:
14:20 And blessed be the Most High God, which hath delivered thine enemies into thy hand. And he gave him tithes of all.

John 8:56-58 KJV
8:56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.
8:57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?
8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am (see: John 17:5).

The Messiah/Christ appearing to Moses in the burning bush, and then leading Moses and the Israelites through the wilderness of sin as "the Angel of The Lord" (Exod. 23:20-23;

Exodus 3:1-3
3:1 Now Moses kept the flock of Jethro his father in law, the priest of Midian: and he led the flock to the backside of the desert, and came to the mountain of God, [even] to Horeb.
3:2 And the angel of the "I AM" appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush: and he looked, and, behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush [was] not consumed.
3:3 And Moses said, I will now turn aside, and see this great sight, why the bush is not burnt.

Exodus 23:20-23
23:20 Behold, I send an Angel before thee, to keep thee in The Way (ch. 18:20; Deut. 11:28; 31:29; John 14:6), and to bring thee into the place which I have prepared.
23:21 Beware of him, and obey his voice (Mark 9:7), provoke him not; for he will not pardon your transgressions: for My name [is] in him.
23:22 But if thou shalt indeed obey his voice, and do all that I speak; then I will be an enemy unto thine enemies, and an adversary unto thine adversaries.
23:23 For Mine Angel shall go before thee, and bring thee in unto the Amorites, and the Hittites, and the Perizzites, and the Canaanites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites: and I will cut them off.

The Messiah/Christ incarnated inside of Elijah: Compare: 2 kings 2:11 to John 3:13, and also the returning of the mantle from Elisha/John the Baptist to Elijah/Christ - 2 kings 2:13 to Matt. 3:16, where "Elias" is Elisha, NOT Elijah Matt. 17:12-13;

The Messiah/Christ as "The Word of God (the "I AM")" or "The Word of The Lord", speaking to the Prophets either physically or as the Holy Spirit (our connection to Father/God/the "I AM" - see: John 14:15-18; John 16:7, NOT some third character in a pagan 3=1 nonsensical deity), e.g.:

Ezekiel 1:3 The Word of the "I AM" came expressly unto Ezekiel the priest, the son of Buzi, in the land of the Chaldeans by the river Chebar; and the hand of the "I AM" was there upon him.

The Messiah/Christ incarnated inside of Jesus (John 1:10-14, among dozens and dozens of other verses);

The Messiah/Christ as the Holy Spirit, guiding the disciples and apostles (Acts 2:3-4); and

The Messiah/Christ in His current incarnation as EliJAH (Mal. 4).

So, bearing the above in mind, the context of the verses in question, and the fact that for the past 2000 years there has only been ONE High-Priest/Mediator/connection between God and men: The Messiah/Christ, why would anyone assume that Ezekiel 45:17-22 are referencing the coming 1000 year reign of The Messiah/Christ on Earth instead of the period of time when the temple was rebuilt, 500 years before the birth of Jesus?

Ezekiel 45:17-22
45:17 And it shall be The Prince's part [to give] burnt offerings, and meat offerings, and drink offerings, in the feasts, and in the new moons, and in the Sabbaths, in all solemnities of the "House of Israel": he shall prepare the sin offering, and the meat offering, and the burnt offering, and the peace offerings, to make reconciliation for the "House of Israel" (foreshadowing the sacrifice made by The Messiah/Christ/Prince on the cross).
45:18 Thus saith the Lord "I AM"; In the first [month], in the first [day] of the month, thou shalt take a young bullock without blemish, and cleanse The Sanctuary (clearly referring to the physical second temple, aka Herod's Temple, and also clearly NOT referring to the coming 1000 year reign of Christ on Earth - Rev. 21:22):
45:19 And the priest shall take of the blood of the sin offering, and put [it] upon the posts of The House, and upon the four corners of the settle of the altar, and upon the posts of the gate of the inner court.
45:20 And so thou shalt do the seventh [day] of the month for every one that erreth, and for [him that is] simple: so shall ye reconcile The House (again, clearly referring to the physical second temple, aka Herod's Temple, and also clearly NOT referring to the coming 1000 year reign of Christ on Earth - Rev. 21:22).
45:21 In the first [month], in the fourteenth day of the month, ye shall have The Passover, a feast of seven days; unleavened bread shall be eaten.
45:22 And upon that day shall The Prince prepare for himself and for all the people of the land a bullock [for] a sin offering (all of which is the ordinance of substitute animal sacrifice, which was done away with at the cross - Eph. 2:14-15; Col. 2:13-14).

Q: And if chapter 45 starts out in the future and then jumps back to the past, when are chapters 46-48 set?

A: Using the above logical, scripturally-backed convention, where do you believe chapters 46-48 are set?

[Athetotheist]

[Replying to A Freeman in post #5]

You do realize that the Spiritual-Being/Soul we refer to as The Messiah/Christ -- the firstborn/first-created Son of God (Col. 1:12-15; Rev. 3:14) -- has been here MANY times over the past 6000 years, and has spoken to and guided ALL of the prophets, don't you?

Melchizedek
Elijah
Jesus
EliJAH

Are you suggesting that the "Messiah" can conveniently be whoever is on hand at the moment?

So, bearing the above in mind, the context of the verses in question, and the fact that for the past 2000 years there has only been ONE High-Priest/Mediator/connection between God and men: The Messiah/Christ, why would anyone assume that Ezekiel 45:17-22 are referencing the coming 1000 year reign of The Messiah/Christ on Earth instead of the period of time when the temple was rebuilt, 500 years before the birth of Jesus?

In Ezekiel the "Prince", whom you identify as the Messiah, offers a different set of sacrifices from those prescribed in the Torah:

Numbers 28:16-----no bull of purification
Ezekiel 45:21–22-----1 bull of purification

Numbers 28:17–22-----2 bulls, 1 ram, 1 goat, 7 lambs, three-tenths of choice flour for a bull and two-tenths for a ram
Ezekiel 45:23–24-----7 bulls, 7 rams, 1 goat, no lambs, 1 ephah and 1 hin of oil for each animal

Numbers 29:12-34-----13 bulls (down to 7), 2 rams, 1 goat, 14 lambs, three-tenths of choice flour mixed with oil for each bull, lamb, and ram
Ezekiel 45:25-----7 bulls, 7 rams, 1 goat, no lambs, 1 ephah and 1 hin of oil for each animal


In Ezekiel, all the tribes of Israel are present (48:23-34). During the second temple period, most of them were still scattered.

[Athetotheist]

[Replying to 1213 in post #4]

There are also other reasons for sacrifices. they can be for example thanksgiving offerings.

Then it shall be the prince’s part to give burnt offerings, grain offerings, and drink offerings, at the feasts, the New Moons, the Sabbaths, and at all the appointed seasons of the house of Israel. He shall prepare the sin offering, the grain offering, the burnt offering, and the peace offerings to make atonement for the house of Israel.
(Ezekiel 45:17)

[A Freeman]

Matthew 15:24 But he (Jesus) answered and said, I am not sent but unto the "lost sheep" of the "House of Israel" (the Ten "Lost" Tribes of Israel).

[Athetotheist]

[Replying to A Freeman in post #8]

Matthew 15:24 But he (Jesus) answered and said, I am not sent but unto the "lost sheep" of the "House of Israel" (the Ten "Lost" Tribes of Israel).

Sent to "prepare the sin offering, the grain offering, the burnt offering, and the peace offerings to make atonement for the house of Israel"?

Then why sacrifice himself?

[A Freeman]

[Replying to Athetotheist in post #9]

For multiple reasons.

The Lamb of God, who also happens to be the King of Israel, was sacrificed as a substitute for the sins of the entire nation. The entire nation had earned the death penalty according to The Law, for failing to keep their/our end of the Covenant (see: Deut. 28).

Secondly, as our Teacher and Example, the Sacrifice made by Prince Michael/Christ taught and exemplified "self" sacrifice for the good of everyone. It should be self-evident that it's impossible to do God's Will while still serving the "self", i.e. the selfish desires of the human/flesh (see: Matt. 6:24; Luke 9:23; Luke 14:26-27). It should be equally obvious that until people learn to destroy their egos and selfishness, all of which serves the flesh/human (which is influenced and controlled by Lucifer/Satan/Iblis), there will always be conflict and war, at every level, which will invariably lead to Armageddon.

God's Will isn't something mysterious; it begins with keeping His Law, which contains His Commandments, His Statutes and His Judgements, which are part of His Perfect System of Governance (with no forked-tongue politicians) and His Perfect System of Justice (with no attorneys and black-robed judges making six-figure salaries). Of course His Law also provides us with the perfect agricultural policy (where the land is rested every seventh year, where there are no GM crops, and where there are no poisonous chemical fertilizers, pesticides, fungicides, herbicides, insecticides, etc.), the perfect economic policy (with no usury, and with built-in debt relief), and the perfect healthy diet.

Is Ezekiel 45:17 not foreshadowing all of these things, with Prince Michael/Christ being sent in the body of Jesus to make reconciliation for the "House of Israel"?

Ezekiel 45:17 And it shall be The Prince's part [to give] burnt offerings, and meat offerings, and drink offerings, in the feasts, and in the new moons, and in the Sabbaths, in all solemnities of the "House of Israel": he shall prepare the sin offering*, and the meat offering**, and the burnt offering***, and the peace offerings****, to make reconciliation for the "House of Israel".

*John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

**John 4:34 Jesus saith unto them, My meat is to do the Will of Him that sent me, and to finish His work.

***Matthew 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Spirit, and [with] fire:

****Luke 2:11-14
2:11 For unto you is born this day in the City of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord.
2:12 And this [shall be] a sign unto you; Ye shall find the babe wrapped in swaddling clothes, lying in a manger.
2:13 And suddenly there was with the angel a multitude of the heavenly host praising God, and saying,
2:14 Glory to God in the highest, and on Earth PEACE, good will toward men.

A further, and very obvious reason why Jesus had to be sacrificed is to show this faithless world (Luke 18:8) that there IS Spiritual Life after the death of the human body.

John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the Words (Truth) that I speak unto you, [they] are spirit, and [they] are Life.