JWs and Contradition

[POI]

The JW.org website states they are not antiscience. This sounds like a rational position. (i.e.):

"Although Jehovahs Witnesses believe in creation, we are not antiscience. We believe that true science and the Bible are compatible."

JW.org also states:

"Evil and suffering. These began when one of Gods angels rebelled. (John 8:44) This angel, who after his rebellion was called "Satan" and "Devil," persuaded the first human couple to join him, and the consequences have been disastrous for their descendants. (Genesis 3:1-6; Romans 5:12) In order to settle the moral issues raised by Satan, God has allowed evil and suffering, but He will not permit them to continue forever."

For debate: If no evil/suffering existed before the "fall of man", then why do we have evidence that evil/suffering existed prior to the fall of man?

Receipts #1: Dinosaurs exists prior to humans. Fossils exist, of dinosaurs sustaining injury:(http://www.forbes.com/sites/shaenamonta ... 28ccf42e8c)

Receipt #2: More dinosaur suffering: (https://www.scientificamerican.com/arti ... ing-about/)

[JehovahsWitness]

JW.org also states:

"Evil and suffering. These began when one of Gods angels rebelled. (John 8:44) This angel, who after his rebellion was called "Satan" and "Devil," persuaded the first human couple to join him, and the consequences have been disastrous for their descendants. (Genesis 3:1-6; Romans 5:12) In order to settle the moral issues raised by Satan, God has allowed evil and suffering, but He will not permit them to continue forever."

For debate: If no evil/suffering existed before the "fall of man", then why do we have evidence that evil/suffering existed prior to the fall of man?

The quote provided did not state " no evil/suffering existed before the "fall of man".

Why are you quoting Jehovahs Witnesses literature to debate a point Jehovah's Witesses do not believe or state. Of what relevance is the thread heading (and the quotation in the OP) to the debate question?

[JehovahsWitness]

The JW.org website states they are not antiscience. This sounds like a rational position. (i.e.):

"Although Jehovahs Witnesses believe in creation, we are not antiscience. We believe that true science and the Bible are compatible."

Receipts #1: Dinosaurs exists prior to humans

JEHOVAHS WITNESSES ARE NOT " CREATIONISTS "



1. Jehovah's Witnesses do not hold that humans existed before dinosaurs.

2. JWs believe the Bible narrative indicates land and sea creatures were created many millennia before man appeared on the scene; the largest of which may have been long extinct before humans were created.

[JehovahsWitness]

Receipts #1: ...Fossils exist, of dinosaurs sustaining injury

Receipt #2: More dinosaur suffering:

1. It seems evident the quotation cited was in reference to HUMAN (or animal) suffering that comes about as a result of evil, rather than pain of physical injury or natural (created) processes
https://www.jw.org/en/jehovahs-witnesse ... s-beliefs/

2. Jehovah Witness believe animals were not created to live forever and that a measure of pain through natural processes, the death (or even extinction) of some creatures, including dinosaurs is not necessarily evidence of evil.

3. Jehovah's Witnesses do not hold that animals or humans were designed to be totally free of the sensation of pain*. Only that God did not intend living creatures to suffer excessive, debililating pain that is caused by deliberate exercise of evil.


*pain is part of the body's natural defense system, so Jehovah's Witnesses believe that "suffering" pain as a result of natural processes, existed before sin and before Adam and Eve

[POI]

The quote provided did not state " no evil/suffering existed before the "fall of man".

When exactly did suffering start? Did any suffering exist before Adam and Eve?

Why are you quoting Jehovahs Witnesses literature to debate a point Jehovah's Witesses do not believe or state. Of what relevance is the thread heading (and the quotation in the OP) to the debate question?

I will await your response above.

[POI]

The JW.org website states they are not antiscience. This sounds like a rational position. (i.e.):

"Although Jehovahs Witnesses believe in creation, we are not antiscience. We believe that true science and the Bible are compatible."

Receipts #1: Dinosaurs exists prior to humans

1. Jehovah's Witnesses do not hold that humans existed before dinosaurs.

2. JWs believe the Bible narrative indicates land and sea creatures were created many millennia before man appeared on the scene; the largest of which may have been long extinct before humans were created.

1. That's not what i said at all.

2. I do not disagree at all.

[POI]

Receipts #1: ...Fossils exist, of dinosaurs sustaining injury

Receipt #2: More dinosaur suffering:

1. It seems evident the quotation cited was in reference to HUMAN suffering that comes about as a result of evil, rather than the pain of physical injury.
https://www.jw.org/en/jehovahs-witnesse ... s-beliefs/

2. Jehovah Witness believe animals were not created to live forever and that the death (or even extinction) of some creatures is not necessarily evidence of evil.

3. Jehovah's Witnesses do not hold that animals or humans were designed to be totally free of the sensation of pain*. Only that God did not intend living creatures to suffer excessive, debililating pain that is caused by deliberate exercise of evil.


*pain is part of the body's natural defense system

1. Negative. The picture, directly behind the quote, shows animals too. The suffering would then logically include all of the "animal kingdom". This would have included dinosaurs.

2. The quote, which would include the entire 'animal kingdom', did not suffer before the first humans "fell".

3. See my response to point 1.

[1213]

...why do we have evidence that evil/suffering existed prior to the fall of man?

Receipts #1: Dinosaurs exists prior to humans. Fossils exist, of dinosaurs sustaining injury:(http://www.forbes.com/sites/shaenamonta ... 28ccf42e8c)

Receipt #2: More dinosaur suffering: (https://www.scientificamerican.com/arti ... ing-about/)

Why would anyone think fall of man happened after dinosaurs?

[JehovahsWitness]

Receipts #1: ...Fossils exist, of dinosaurs sustaining injury

Receipt #2: More dinosaur suffering:

1. Jehovah's Witnesses
believe that HUMAN (or animal) suffering that comes about as a result of evil, (rather than pain of physical injury or natural (created) processes) was caused by sin.
https://www.jw.org/en/jehovahs-witnesse ... s-beliefs/

2. Jehovah Witness believe animals were not created to live forever and that a measure of pain and suffering through natural processes, death (or even extinction) of some creatures, including dinosaurs is not necessarily evidence of evil.

3. Jehovah's Witnesses do not hold that animals or humans were designed to be totally free of the sensation of pain*. Only that God did not intend living creatures to suffer excessive, debililating , "unwanted" pain that is caused by deliberate exercise of evil.


4. Pain* is part of the body's natural defense system (see Awake January 8, 1978 p.9: https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/101978001) Jehovah's Witnesses believe that "suffering" pain as a result of natural processes started with the first physical creatures and existed before the sin of Adam and Eve .

CONCLUSION There is no quote from any of the Jehovah's Witnesses literature that claim suffering physical pain did not exist for man or beast before sin. JWs believe suffering and pain as a result if evil started for man and beast with the Edenic rebellion.

[JehovahsWitness]

"The Bible speaks of animals as being "born naturally to be caught and destroyed." But concerning mankind it says: "God . . . has even put eternity into their minds." (2 Peter 2:12; Ecclesiastes 3:10, 11, Byington) In other words, animals were not purposed to live forever, but man was." - Watchtower August 15, 1984 p.4

"The Bible does not comment on the disappearance of the dinosaurs. However, it does state that all things were created "because of [Gods] will," so God clearly had a purpose for making dinosaurs. (Revelation 4:11) When that purpose was fulfilled, God allowed the dinosaurs to become extinct" Awake 1990 February 8 p.5

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