The Fall!

[POI]

Otseng stated "Yes, I believe the fall is a thing. As for why, it is out of scope for the current discussion, but can be addressed later."

Your wish has been granted.

For debate: Outside the claim being made from an ancient human writing, why is the assertion of 'the fall' a real thing?

[TRANSPONDER]

For me, no.It is one of the most absurd things in the Bible. And yet it could be made to work, but in a way that Bible -believers would probably not like. It not only looks like a deliberate stitch up but indeed was, because humans have to be put in possession of evil so they can become good enough to be with God, but without being made perfect, which would defeat the object (Like Robots'as the apologists say). It could even explain why all creation had to fall as well.

Though it doesn't explain why God then destroyed what he had enginered, but there, who said any of it had to make sense?

But the fact is that Evil has to be a Thing that is to be laid on man, even if God did it, or there is no point in the crucifixion.

[Wootah]

[Replying to POI in post #1]

Every day each person tends their garden and must watch for snakes.

That as metaphor is very real.

[TRANSPONDER]

[Replying to POI in post #1]

Every day each person tends their garden and must watch for snakes.

That as metaphor is very real.

"The fool and his money are soon parted"

That is also a 'very real' metaphor.

Whether it applies to the Eden narrative or indeed any other part of the Bible, is a matter of debate, not whether everyday happenings work as metaphors to Biblical claims.

[Wootah]

[Replying to POI in post #1]

Every day each person tends their garden and must watch for snakes.

That as metaphor is very real.

"The fool and his money are soon parted"

That is also a 'very real' metaphor.

Whether it applies to the Eden narrative or indeed any other part of the Bible, is a matter of debate, not whether everyday happenings work as metaphors to Biblical claims.

https://www.kjvsayings.com/phrase/a-foo ... oon-parted
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?s ... ersion=NIV
The wise store up choice food and olive oil,
but fools gulp theirs down.

I don't understand your point to be honest but I did search the origin of that phrase and it does go back to the Bible.

So much wisdom to take hold of if one chooses.

[TRANSPONDER]

[Replying to POI in post #1]

Every day each person tends their garden and must watch for snakes.

That as metaphor is very real.

"The fool and his money are soon parted"

That is also a 'very real' metaphor.

Whether it applies to the Eden narrative or indeed any other part of the Bible, is a matter of debate, not whether everyday happenings work as metaphors to Biblical claims.

https://www.kjvsayings.com/phrase/a-foo ... oon-parted
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?s ... ersion=NIV
The wise store up choice food and olive oil,
but fools gulp theirs down.

I don't understand your point to be honest but I did search the origin of that phrase and it does go back to the Bible.

So much wisdom to take hold of if one chooses.

Yes, and so much nonsense.

"Fine feathers make fine birds".

"Fine feathers do not make fine birds".

Both are fine, but it takes another bit of wisdom to clarify it. "Beauty is only skin deep" Fine trappings make a person look impressive, even admirable, but underneath the show, may be a real ratbag.

So with the snakes in the garden, that metaphor may apply to to those with discrimination, but it totally fails in the Eden scenario, because they had no discrimination as yet. Slice it where you like, this whole story - if true - was a set -up. If not, it doesn't matter...except that it undercuts the whole concept of Sin and the need for redemption.,

But who said it had to make sense?

[William]

Otseng stated "Yes, I believe the fall is a thing. As for why, it is out of scope for the current discussion, but can be addressed later."

Your wish has been granted.

For debate: Outside the claim being made from an ancient human writing, why is the assertion of 'the fall' a real thing?

What is "The Fall"?

[Difflugia]

What is "The Fall"?

That Genesis 3:14-19 can be extrapolated to include all of the things about the natural world that don't make sense if there were a god. Like how human beings get fallen arches and Tyrannosaurus rex started eating meat instead of coconuts.

From The Lie: Evolution by Ken Ham:

[Wootah]

So with the snakes in the garden, that metaphor may apply to to those with discrimination, but it totally fails in the Eden scenario, because they had no discrimination as yet. Slice it where you like, this whole story - if true - was a set -up. If not, it doesn't matter...except that it undercuts the whole concept of Sin and the need for redemption.,

But who said it had to make sense?

I do think the fall is a mirror in that we see what we want to see. I mean that seriously. It is an open question who is the good guy and who is the bad guy in that story.

[William]

So with the snakes in the garden, that metaphor may apply to to those with discrimination, but it totally fails in the Eden scenario, because they had no discrimination as yet. Slice it where you like, this whole story - if true - was a set -up. If not, it doesn't matter...except that it undercuts the whole concept of Sin and the need for redemption.,

But who said it had to make sense?

I do think the fall is a mirror in that we see what we want to see. I mean that seriously. It is an open question who is the good guy and who is the bad guy in that story.

It is true that we can see what we want to see, regardless of what it is the mirror actually shows.

Out of all the characters narrated in that story, which one do you most "see" yourself as?