Moderator: Moderators
If God really loved the people of the world so much, why could he not come up with a plan that would have more people saved?John 3:16 wrote:For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.
Cathar1950 wrote:Biker:You are right God doesn’t prove anything to us. How do you know God isn’t insecure? After all isn’t he is a Jealous God? I don’t think his issue is that obvious or you would have presented it better then a desire to have him come down and personally “plainly and unambiguously demonstrated His existence" just for anyone! The problem is that you think he did and because the reported demonstration is good enough for you it should be good enough for everyone. You say it is the bible, which shows us that the bible is where you place your faith and everything else is secondary. If most including Mack don’t believe your bible and the trust in its ambiguous and varied messages then maybe the problem isn’t with us humans. Maybe the problem is with the humans that so willingly believe what they want to believe from rather questionable sources about ultimate reality. My mind is not made up and I am not going to speak for others but your mind seems closed and I would suspect it is from fear that you are unable to entertain other ideas and doubts. My complaint is not what God is or isn’t doing. I take issue with your claims concerning the bible and your interpretation, which seems largely a projected scheme that makes Jesus a God that died for your sins so you can feel like everything is fixed except what you blame on the unbeliever.I answered the question ,you don't like the answer.God is going to prove nothing to you, he has nothing to prove to you. Is God insecure,NO.Obviously your issue with unbelief is that God has not come down off His throne and personally " plainly and unambiguously demonstrated His existence" just for you! The problem is HE DID, but you don't like the demonstration!
This is very simple,God has a plan,its written down, its called the bible.You among others can accept it or not.Most don't including you.I do,I believe the bible therefore it is true to me and for me, sadly, it is not for you. I guess we will see how it works out in the end. Just make sure your opinion is right is about all I could offer you,because your mind is made up as is mine. What in your great wisdom, would you have done differently,or do differently,since you don't like the way the nonGod is doing?
A historical figure named Jesus made claims to other historical figures. This historical figure Jesus demonstrated historical miracles as witnessed by various historical figures.These accounts written down by eyewitnesses record various claims by this historical figure Jesus, volumes of corraborating evidence of which I am not going to futally go into for you,its available readily if you truly desire to honestly investigate. This historical Jesus as I say has made claims:As to His divinity!Cathar1950 wrote:Biker:You are right God doesn’t prove anything to us. How do you know God isn’t insecure? After all isn’t he is a Jealous God? I don’t think his issue is that obvious or you would have presented it better then a desire to have him come down and personally “plainly and unambiguously demonstrated His existence" just for anyone! The problem is that you think he did and because the reported demonstration is good enough for you it should be good enough for everyone. You say it is the bible, which shows us that the bible is where you place your faith and everything else is secondary. If most including Mack don’t believe your bible and the trust in its ambiguous and varied messages then maybe the problem isn’t with us humans. Maybe the problem is with the humans that so willingly believe what they want to believe from rather questionable sources about ultimate reality. My mind is not made up and I am not going to speak for others but your mind seems closed and I would suspect it is from fear that you are unable to entertain other ideas and doubts. My complaint is not what God is or isn’t doing. I take issue with your claims concerning the bible and your interpretation, which seems largely a projected scheme that makes Jesus a God that died for your sins so you can feel like everything is fixed except what you blame on the unbeliever.I answered the question ,you don't like the answer.God is going to prove nothing to you, he has nothing to prove to you. Is God insecure,NO.Obviously your issue with unbelief is that God has not come down off His throne and personally " plainly and unambiguously demonstrated His existence" just for you! The problem is HE DID, but you don't like the demonstration!
This is very simple,God has a plan,its written down, its called the bible.You among others can accept it or not.Most don't including you.I do,I believe the bible therefore it is true to me and for me, sadly, it is not for you. I guess we will see how it works out in the end. Just make sure your opinion is right is about all I could offer you,because your mind is made up as is mine. What in your great wisdom, would you have done differently,or do differently,since you don't like the way the nonGod is doing?
Hum. None of your sources knew the historical Jesus. And no, the so called 'Old testament' does not acknowledge Jesus as a Messiah..Biker wrote:A historical figure named Jesus made claims to other historical figures. This historical figure Jesus demonstrated historical miracles as witnessed by various historical figures.These accounts written down by eyewitnesses record various claims by this historical figure Jesus, volumes of corraborating evidence of which I am not going to futally go into for you,its available readily if you truly desire to honestly investigate. This historical Jesus as I say has made claims:As to His divinity!Cathar1950 wrote:Biker:You are right God doesn’t prove anything to us. How do you know God isn’t insecure? After all isn’t he is a Jealous God? I don’t think his issue is that obvious or you would have presented it better then a desire to have him come down and personally “plainly and unambiguously demonstrated His existence" just for anyone! The problem is that you think he did and because the reported demonstration is good enough for you it should be good enough for everyone. You say it is the bible, which shows us that the bible is where you place your faith and everything else is secondary. If most including Mack don’t believe your bible and the trust in its ambiguous and varied messages then maybe the problem isn’t with us humans. Maybe the problem is with the humans that so willingly believe what they want to believe from rather questionable sources about ultimate reality. My mind is not made up and I am not going to speak for others but your mind seems closed and I would suspect it is from fear that you are unable to entertain other ideas and doubts. My complaint is not what God is or isn’t doing. I take issue with your claims concerning the bible and your interpretation, which seems largely a projected scheme that makes Jesus a God that died for your sins so you can feel like everything is fixed except what you blame on the unbeliever.I answered the question ,you don't like the answer.God is going to prove nothing to you, he has nothing to prove to you. Is God insecure,NO.Obviously your issue with unbelief is that God has not come down off His throne and personally " plainly and unambiguously demonstrated His existence" just for you! The problem is HE DID, but you don't like the demonstration!
This is very simple,God has a plan,its written down, its called the bible.You among others can accept it or not.Most don't including you.I do,I believe the bible therefore it is true to me and for me, sadly, it is not for you. I guess we will see how it works out in the end. Just make sure your opinion is right is about all I could offer you,because your mind is made up as is mine. What in your great wisdom, would you have done differently,or do differently,since you don't like the way the nonGod is doing?
As Jehovah,Isa.40:3,with Matt.3:3;Jehovah of glory,Psa.24:7,10, with 1 Cor.2:8;Jas.2:1;Jehovah our righteousness,Jer.23:5,6, with 1 Cor. 1:30; Jehovah above all,Psa.97:9,with John 3:31; Jehovah the first and the last,Isa.44:6, with Rev.1:17; Isa.48:12-16,with Rev. 22:13; Jehovahs fellow and equal,Zech.13:7;with Phil.2:6;Jehovah of Hosts,Isa.6:1-3,with John 12:41;Isa.8:13,14, with 1 Peter. 2:8; Jehovah, Psa. 110:1, with Matt.22:42-45;Jehovah the shepherd,Isa. 40:10,11;with Heb.13:20; Jehovah, for whose glory all things were created, Prov.16:4, with Col. 1:16;Jehovah the messenger of the coveant,Mal. 3:1,with Luke 7:27.
Invoked as Jehovah,Joel 2:32, with 1 Cor.1:2; as the eternal God and creator, Psa. 102:24-27,with Heb.1:8,10-12; the mighty God ,Isa.9:6; the great God and Savior, Hos.1:7,with Tit.2:13;God over all,Rom. 9:5; God the Judge , Eccl.12:14, with 1Cor. 4:5; 2Cor.5:10;2 Tim.4:1; Emmanuel, Isa.7:14, with Matt. 1:23; King of kings and Lord of lords, Dan.10:17, with Rev.1:5;17:14; the Holy one, 1 Sam. 2:2with Acts3:14;The Lord from heaven, 1Cor.15:47; Lord of the sabbath,Gen.2:3,With Matt.12:8; Lord of all, Acts 10:36;Rom.10:11-13; Son of God, Matt. 26:63-67; the only begotten Son of the Father,John 1:14,18; 3:16,18; 1John4:9. His blood is called the blood of God, Acts 20:28.One wiyh the Father, John 10:30,38; 12:45; 14:7-10;17:10. As sending the Spirit equally with the Father, John 14:16, with John 15:26. As unsearchable equally with the Father, Prov.30:4; Matt. 11:27. As Creator of all things, Isa.. 40:28;John 1:3; Col.1:16; supporter and preserver of all things, Neh. 9:6, with Col. 1:17; Heb. 1:3. ACKNOWLEDGED by OLD TESTAMENT saints, Gen.17:1,with Gen.48:15,16; 32:24-30, with Hos. 12:3-5; Judg.6:22-24; 13:21,22; Job 19: 25-27.
Explain to me "ultimate reality?" "My mind is closed", I asked you various questions about claims you make, Im still waiting, perhaps if you answerd me you might enlighten me!What am I blaming on the unbeliever?
Jesus claims to be divine, alot,in many places,obviosly, He is right or He is crazy! I say He is THE Messiah, Savior.I say Jesus is the only way to eternal life,there is no other way. Not in observance of the Law given to Moses, not in muhammed,not in budda,not in living a "good life",not wishing,not in cleverly devised schemes.Just in this peculiar plan spelled out in the bible.If you have a better way let me know, as I asked earlier, how would you do it?
Biker
Hmm prove it!goat wrote:Hum. None of your sources knew the historical Jesus. And no, the so called 'Old testament' does not acknowledge Jesus as a Messiah..Biker wrote:A historical figure named Jesus made claims to other historical figures. This historical figure Jesus demonstrated historical miracles as witnessed by various historical figures.These accounts written down by eyewitnesses record various claims by this historical figure Jesus, volumes of corraborating evidence of which I am not going to futally go into for you,its available readily if you truly desire to honestly investigate. This historical Jesus as I say has made claims:As to His divinity!Cathar1950 wrote:Biker:You are right God doesn’t prove anything to us. How do you know God isn’t insecure? After all isn’t he is a Jealous God? I don’t think his issue is that obvious or you would have presented it better then a desire to have him come down and personally “plainly and unambiguously demonstrated His existence" just for anyone! The problem is that you think he did and because the reported demonstration is good enough for you it should be good enough for everyone. You say it is the bible, which shows us that the bible is where you place your faith and everything else is secondary. If most including Mack don’t believe your bible and the trust in its ambiguous and varied messages then maybe the problem isn’t with us humans. Maybe the problem is with the humans that so willingly believe what they want to believe from rather questionable sources about ultimate reality. My mind is not made up and I am not going to speak for others but your mind seems closed and I would suspect it is from fear that you are unable to entertain other ideas and doubts. My complaint is not what God is or isn’t doing. I take issue with your claims concerning the bible and your interpretation, which seems largely a projected scheme that makes Jesus a God that died for your sins so you can feel like everything is fixed except what you blame on the unbeliever.I answered the question ,you don't like the answer.God is going to prove nothing to you, he has nothing to prove to you. Is God insecure,NO.Obviously your issue with unbelief is that God has not come down off His throne and personally " plainly and unambiguously demonstrated His existence" just for you! The problem is HE DID, but you don't like the demonstration!
This is very simple,God has a plan,its written down, its called the bible.You among others can accept it or not.Most don't including you.I do,I believe the bible therefore it is true to me and for me, sadly, it is not for you. I guess we will see how it works out in the end. Just make sure your opinion is right is about all I could offer you,because your mind is made up as is mine. What in your great wisdom, would you have done differently,or do differently,since you don't like the way the nonGod is doing?
As Jehovah,Isa.40:3,with Matt.3:3;Jehovah of glory,Psa.24:7,10, with 1 Cor.2:8;Jas.2:1;Jehovah our righteousness,Jer.23:5,6, with 1 Cor. 1:30; Jehovah above all,Psa.97:9,with John 3:31; Jehovah the first and the last,Isa.44:6, with Rev.1:17; Isa.48:12-16,with Rev. 22:13; Jehovahs fellow and equal,Zech.13:7;with Phil.2:6;Jehovah of Hosts,Isa.6:1-3,with John 12:41;Isa.8:13,14, with 1 Peter. 2:8; Jehovah, Psa. 110:1, with Matt.22:42-45;Jehovah the shepherd,Isa. 40:10,11;with Heb.13:20; Jehovah, for whose glory all things were created, Prov.16:4, with Col. 1:16;Jehovah the messenger of the coveant,Mal. 3:1,with Luke 7:27.
Invoked as Jehovah,Joel 2:32, with 1 Cor.1:2; as the eternal God and creator, Psa. 102:24-27,with Heb.1:8,10-12; the mighty God ,Isa.9:6; the great God and Savior, Hos.1:7,with Tit.2:13;God over all,Rom. 9:5; God the Judge , Eccl.12:14, with 1Cor. 4:5; 2Cor.5:10;2 Tim.4:1; Emmanuel, Isa.7:14, with Matt. 1:23; King of kings and Lord of lords, Dan.10:17, with Rev.1:5;17:14; the Holy one, 1 Sam. 2:2with Acts3:14;The Lord from heaven, 1Cor.15:47; Lord of the sabbath,Gen.2:3,With Matt.12:8; Lord of all, Acts 10:36;Rom.10:11-13; Son of God, Matt. 26:63-67; the only begotten Son of the Father,John 1:14,18; 3:16,18; 1John4:9. His blood is called the blood of God, Acts 20:28.One wiyh the Father, John 10:30,38; 12:45; 14:7-10;17:10. As sending the Spirit equally with the Father, John 14:16, with John 15:26. As unsearchable equally with the Father, Prov.30:4; Matt. 11:27. As Creator of all things, Isa.. 40:28;John 1:3; Col.1:16; supporter and preserver of all things, Neh. 9:6, with Col. 1:17; Heb. 1:3. ACKNOWLEDGED by OLD TESTAMENT saints, Gen.17:1,with Gen.48:15,16; 32:24-30, with Hos. 12:3-5; Judg.6:22-24; 13:21,22; Job 19: 25-27.
Explain to me "ultimate reality?" "My mind is closed", I asked you various questions about claims you make, Im still waiting, perhaps if you answerd me you might enlighten me!What am I blaming on the unbeliever?
Jesus claims to be divine, alot,in many places,obviosly, He is right or He is crazy! I say He is THE Messiah, Savior.I say Jesus is the only way to eternal life,there is no other way. Not in observance of the Law given to Moses, not in muhammed,not in budda,not in living a "good life",not wishing,not in cleverly devised schemes.Just in this peculiar plan spelled out in the bible.If you have a better way let me know, as I asked earlier, how would you do it?
Biker
Jesus did not do what is needed for the Messiah. He did not kick out the forigners, nor was there world peace after him. He did not have children to carry on afterward. THose are just some of the messanic requirement from the old testament.Biker wrote:Hmm prove it!goat wrote:Hum. None of your sources knew the historical Jesus. And no, the so called 'Old testament' does not acknowledge Jesus as a Messiah..Biker wrote:A historical figure named Jesus made claims to other historical figures. This historical figure Jesus demonstrated historical miracles as witnessed by various historical figures.These accounts written down by eyewitnesses record various claims by this historical figure Jesus, volumes of corraborating evidence of which I am not going to futally go into for you,its available readily if you truly desire to honestly investigate. This historical Jesus as I say has made claims:As to His divinity!Cathar1950 wrote:Biker:You are right God doesn’t prove anything to us. How do you know God isn’t insecure? After all isn’t he is a Jealous God? I don’t think his issue is that obvious or you would have presented it better then a desire to have him come down and personally “plainly and unambiguously demonstrated His existence" just for anyone! The problem is that you think he did and because the reported demonstration is good enough for you it should be good enough for everyone. You say it is the bible, which shows us that the bible is where you place your faith and everything else is secondary. If most including Mack don’t believe your bible and the trust in its ambiguous and varied messages then maybe the problem isn’t with us humans. Maybe the problem is with the humans that so willingly believe what they want to believe from rather questionable sources about ultimate reality. My mind is not made up and I am not going to speak for others but your mind seems closed and I would suspect it is from fear that you are unable to entertain other ideas and doubts. My complaint is not what God is or isn’t doing. I take issue with your claims concerning the bible and your interpretation, which seems largely a projected scheme that makes Jesus a God that died for your sins so you can feel like everything is fixed except what you blame on the unbeliever.I answered the question ,you don't like the answer.God is going to prove nothing to you, he has nothing to prove to you. Is God insecure,NO.Obviously your issue with unbelief is that God has not come down off His throne and personally " plainly and unambiguously demonstrated His existence" just for you! The problem is HE DID, but you don't like the demonstration!
This is very simple,God has a plan,its written down, its called the bible.You among others can accept it or not.Most don't including you.I do,I believe the bible therefore it is true to me and for me, sadly, it is not for you. I guess we will see how it works out in the end. Just make sure your opinion is right is about all I could offer you,because your mind is made up as is mine. What in your great wisdom, would you have done differently,or do differently,since you don't like the way the nonGod is doing?
As Jehovah,Isa.40:3,with Matt.3:3;Jehovah of glory,Psa.24:7,10, with 1 Cor.2:8;Jas.2:1;Jehovah our righteousness,Jer.23:5,6, with 1 Cor. 1:30; Jehovah above all,Psa.97:9,with John 3:31; Jehovah the first and the last,Isa.44:6, with Rev.1:17; Isa.48:12-16,with Rev. 22:13; Jehovahs fellow and equal,Zech.13:7;with Phil.2:6;Jehovah of Hosts,Isa.6:1-3,with John 12:41;Isa.8:13,14, with 1 Peter. 2:8; Jehovah, Psa. 110:1, with Matt.22:42-45;Jehovah the shepherd,Isa. 40:10,11;with Heb.13:20; Jehovah, for whose glory all things were created, Prov.16:4, with Col. 1:16;Jehovah the messenger of the coveant,Mal. 3:1,with Luke 7:27.
Invoked as Jehovah,Joel 2:32, with 1 Cor.1:2; as the eternal God and creator, Psa. 102:24-27,with Heb.1:8,10-12; the mighty God ,Isa.9:6; the great God and Savior, Hos.1:7,with Tit.2:13;God over all,Rom. 9:5; God the Judge , Eccl.12:14, with 1Cor. 4:5; 2Cor.5:10;2 Tim.4:1; Emmanuel, Isa.7:14, with Matt. 1:23; King of kings and Lord of lords, Dan.10:17, with Rev.1:5;17:14; the Holy one, 1 Sam. 2:2with Acts3:14;The Lord from heaven, 1Cor.15:47; Lord of the sabbath,Gen.2:3,With Matt.12:8; Lord of all, Acts 10:36;Rom.10:11-13; Son of God, Matt. 26:63-67; the only begotten Son of the Father,John 1:14,18; 3:16,18; 1John4:9. His blood is called the blood of God, Acts 20:28.One wiyh the Father, John 10:30,38; 12:45; 14:7-10;17:10. As sending the Spirit equally with the Father, John 14:16, with John 15:26. As unsearchable equally with the Father, Prov.30:4; Matt. 11:27. As Creator of all things, Isa.. 40:28;John 1:3; Col.1:16; supporter and preserver of all things, Neh. 9:6, with Col. 1:17; Heb. 1:3. ACKNOWLEDGED by OLD TESTAMENT saints, Gen.17:1,with Gen.48:15,16; 32:24-30, with Hos. 12:3-5; Judg.6:22-24; 13:21,22; Job 19: 25-27.
Explain to me "ultimate reality?" "My mind is closed", I asked you various questions about claims you make, Im still waiting, perhaps if you answerd me you might enlighten me!What am I blaming on the unbeliever?
Jesus claims to be divine, alot,in many places,obviosly, He is right or He is crazy! I say He is THE Messiah, Savior.I say Jesus is the only way to eternal life,there is no other way. Not in observance of the Law given to Moses, not in muhammed,not in budda,not in living a "good life",not wishing,not in cleverly devised schemes.Just in this peculiar plan spelled out in the bible.If you have a better way let me know, as I asked earlier, how would you do it?
Biker
Biker
There is more abundant and accurate manuscript evidence for the New Testament thanfor ANY other book from the ancient world. There are more manuscripts copied with greater accuracy and earlier dating than for any secular classic from antiquity.goat wrote:Hum. None of your sources knew the historical Jesus. And no, the so called 'Old testament' does not acknowledge Jesus as a Messiah..Biker wrote:A historical figure named Jesus made claims to other historical figures. This historical figure Jesus demonstrated historical miracles as witnessed by various historical figures.These accounts written down by eyewitnesses record various claims by this historical figure Jesus, volumes of corraborating evidence of which I am not going to futally go into for you,its available readily if you truly desire to honestly investigate. This historical Jesus as I say has made claims:As to His divinity!Cathar1950 wrote:Biker:You are right God doesn’t prove anything to us. How do you know God isn’t insecure? After all isn’t he is a Jealous God? I don’t think his issue is that obvious or you would have presented it better then a desire to have him come down and personally “plainly and unambiguously demonstrated His existence" just for anyone! The problem is that you think he did and because the reported demonstration is good enough for you it should be good enough for everyone. You say it is the bible, which shows us that the bible is where you place your faith and everything else is secondary. If most including Mack don’t believe your bible and the trust in its ambiguous and varied messages then maybe the problem isn’t with us humans. Maybe the problem is with the humans that so willingly believe what they want to believe from rather questionable sources about ultimate reality. My mind is not made up and I am not going to speak for others but your mind seems closed and I would suspect it is from fear that you are unable to entertain other ideas and doubts. My complaint is not what God is or isn’t doing. I take issue with your claims concerning the bible and your interpretation, which seems largely a projected scheme that makes Jesus a God that died for your sins so you can feel like everything is fixed except what you blame on the unbeliever.I answered the question ,you don't like the answer.God is going to prove nothing to you, he has nothing to prove to you. Is God insecure,NO.Obviously your issue with unbelief is that God has not come down off His throne and personally " plainly and unambiguously demonstrated His existence" just for you! The problem is HE DID, but you don't like the demonstration!
This is very simple,God has a plan,its written down, its called the bible.You among others can accept it or not.Most don't including you.I do,I believe the bible therefore it is true to me and for me, sadly, it is not for you. I guess we will see how it works out in the end. Just make sure your opinion is right is about all I could offer you,because your mind is made up as is mine. What in your great wisdom, would you have done differently,or do differently,since you don't like the way the nonGod is doing?
As Jehovah,Isa.40:3,with Matt.3:3;Jehovah of glory,Psa.24:7,10, with 1 Cor.2:8;Jas.2:1;Jehovah our righteousness,Jer.23:5,6, with 1 Cor. 1:30; Jehovah above all,Psa.97:9,with John 3:31; Jehovah the first and the last,Isa.44:6, with Rev.1:17; Isa.48:12-16,with Rev. 22:13; Jehovahs fellow and equal,Zech.13:7;with Phil.2:6;Jehovah of Hosts,Isa.6:1-3,with John 12:41;Isa.8:13,14, with 1 Peter. 2:8; Jehovah, Psa. 110:1, with Matt.22:42-45;Jehovah the shepherd,Isa. 40:10,11;with Heb.13:20; Jehovah, for whose glory all things were created, Prov.16:4, with Col. 1:16;Jehovah the messenger of the coveant,Mal. 3:1,with Luke 7:27.
Invoked as Jehovah,Joel 2:32, with 1 Cor.1:2; as the eternal God and creator, Psa. 102:24-27,with Heb.1:8,10-12; the mighty God ,Isa.9:6; the great God and Savior, Hos.1:7,with Tit.2:13;God over all,Rom. 9:5; God the Judge , Eccl.12:14, with 1Cor. 4:5; 2Cor.5:10;2 Tim.4:1; Emmanuel, Isa.7:14, with Matt. 1:23; King of kings and Lord of lords, Dan.10:17, with Rev.1:5;17:14; the Holy one, 1 Sam. 2:2with Acts3:14;The Lord from heaven, 1Cor.15:47; Lord of the sabbath,Gen.2:3,With Matt.12:8; Lord of all, Acts 10:36;Rom.10:11-13; Son of God, Matt. 26:63-67; the only begotten Son of the Father,John 1:14,18; 3:16,18; 1John4:9. His blood is called the blood of God, Acts 20:28.One wiyh the Father, John 10:30,38; 12:45; 14:7-10;17:10. As sending the Spirit equally with the Father, John 14:16, with John 15:26. As unsearchable equally with the Father, Prov.30:4; Matt. 11:27. As Creator of all things, Isa.. 40:28;John 1:3; Col.1:16; supporter and preserver of all things, Neh. 9:6, with Col. 1:17; Heb. 1:3. ACKNOWLEDGED by OLD TESTAMENT saints, Gen.17:1,with Gen.48:15,16; 32:24-30, with Hos. 12:3-5; Judg.6:22-24; 13:21,22; Job 19: 25-27.
Explain to me "ultimate reality?" "My mind is closed", I asked you various questions about claims you make, Im still waiting, perhaps if you answerd me you might enlighten me!What am I blaming on the unbeliever?
Jesus claims to be divine, alot,in many places,obviosly, He is right or He is crazy! I say He is THE Messiah, Savior.I say Jesus is the only way to eternal life,there is no other way. Not in observance of the Law given to Moses, not in muhammed,not in budda,not in living a "good life",not wishing,not in cleverly devised schemes.Just in this peculiar plan spelled out in the bible.If you have a better way let me know, as I asked earlier, how would you do it?
Biker
I do not agree with your first statement.I agree with your next 3 as you understand it!goat wrote:Jesus did not do what is needed for the Messiah. He did not kick out the forigners, nor was there world peace after him. He did not have children to carry on afterward. THose are just some of the messanic requirement from the old testament.Biker wrote:Hmm prove it!goat wrote:Hum. None of your sources knew the historical Jesus. And no, the so called 'Old testament' does not acknowledge Jesus as a Messiah..Biker wrote:A historical figure named Jesus made claims to other historical figures. This historical figure Jesus demonstrated historical miracles as witnessed by various historical figures.These accounts written down by eyewitnesses record various claims by this historical figure Jesus, volumes of corraborating evidence of which I am not going to futally go into for you,its available readily if you truly desire to honestly investigate. This historical Jesus as I say has made claims:As to His divinity!Cathar1950 wrote:Biker:You are right God doesn’t prove anything to us. How do you know God isn’t insecure? After all isn’t he is a Jealous God? I don’t think his issue is that obvious or you would have presented it better then a desire to have him come down and personally “plainly and unambiguously demonstrated His existence" just for anyone! The problem is that you think he did and because the reported demonstration is good enough for you it should be good enough for everyone. You say it is the bible, which shows us that the bible is where you place your faith and everything else is secondary. If most including Mack don’t believe your bible and the trust in its ambiguous and varied messages then maybe the problem isn’t with us humans. Maybe the problem is with the humans that so willingly believe what they want to believe from rather questionable sources about ultimate reality. My mind is not made up and I am not going to speak for others but your mind seems closed and I would suspect it is from fear that you are unable to entertain other ideas and doubts. My complaint is not what God is or isn’t doing. I take issue with your claims concerning the bible and your interpretation, which seems largely a projected scheme that makes Jesus a God that died for your sins so you can feel like everything is fixed except what you blame on the unbeliever.I answered the question ,you don't like the answer.God is going to prove nothing to you, he has nothing to prove to you. Is God insecure,NO.Obviously your issue with unbelief is that God has not come down off His throne and personally " plainly and unambiguously demonstrated His existence" just for you! The problem is HE DID, but you don't like the demonstration!
This is very simple,God has a plan,its written down, its called the bible.You among others can accept it or not.Most don't including you.I do,I believe the bible therefore it is true to me and for me, sadly, it is not for you. I guess we will see how it works out in the end. Just make sure your opinion is right is about all I could offer you,because your mind is made up as is mine. What in your great wisdom, would you have done differently,or do differently,since you don't like the way the nonGod is doing?
As Jehovah,Isa.40:3,with Matt.3:3;Jehovah of glory,Psa.24:7,10, with 1 Cor.2:8;Jas.2:1;Jehovah our righteousness,Jer.23:5,6, with 1 Cor. 1:30; Jehovah above all,Psa.97:9,with John 3:31; Jehovah the first and the last,Isa.44:6, with Rev.1:17; Isa.48:12-16,with Rev. 22:13; Jehovahs fellow and equal,Zech.13:7;with Phil.2:6;Jehovah of Hosts,Isa.6:1-3,with John 12:41;Isa.8:13,14, with 1 Peter. 2:8; Jehovah, Psa. 110:1, with Matt.22:42-45;Jehovah the shepherd,Isa. 40:10,11;with Heb.13:20; Jehovah, for whose glory all things were created, Prov.16:4, with Col. 1:16;Jehovah the messenger of the coveant,Mal. 3:1,with Luke 7:27.
Invoked as Jehovah,Joel 2:32, with 1 Cor.1:2; as the eternal God and creator, Psa. 102:24-27,with Heb.1:8,10-12; the mighty God ,Isa.9:6; the great God and Savior, Hos.1:7,with Tit.2:13;God over all,Rom. 9:5; God the Judge , Eccl.12:14, with 1Cor. 4:5; 2Cor.5:10;2 Tim.4:1; Emmanuel, Isa.7:14, with Matt. 1:23; King of kings and Lord of lords, Dan.10:17, with Rev.1:5;17:14; the Holy one, 1 Sam. 2:2with Acts3:14;The Lord from heaven, 1Cor.15:47; Lord of the sabbath,Gen.2:3,With Matt.12:8; Lord of all, Acts 10:36;Rom.10:11-13; Son of God, Matt. 26:63-67; the only begotten Son of the Father,John 1:14,18; 3:16,18; 1John4:9. His blood is called the blood of God, Acts 20:28.One wiyh the Father, John 10:30,38; 12:45; 14:7-10;17:10. As sending the Spirit equally with the Father, John 14:16, with John 15:26. As unsearchable equally with the Father, Prov.30:4; Matt. 11:27. As Creator of all things, Isa.. 40:28;John 1:3; Col.1:16; supporter and preserver of all things, Neh. 9:6, with Col. 1:17; Heb. 1:3. ACKNOWLEDGED by OLD TESTAMENT saints, Gen.17:1,with Gen.48:15,16; 32:24-30, with Hos. 12:3-5; Judg.6:22-24; 13:21,22; Job 19: 25-27.
Explain to me "ultimate reality?" "My mind is closed", I asked you various questions about claims you make, Im still waiting, perhaps if you answerd me you might enlighten me!What am I blaming on the unbeliever?
Jesus claims to be divine, alot,in many places,obviosly, He is right or He is crazy! I say He is THE Messiah, Savior.I say Jesus is the only way to eternal life,there is no other way. Not in observance of the Law given to Moses, not in muhammed,not in budda,not in living a "good life",not wishing,not in cleverly devised schemes.Just in this peculiar plan spelled out in the bible.If you have a better way let me know, as I asked earlier, how would you do it?
Biker
Biker
And this means it is true?? No, it does not. All it means is that those people who had copies of it thought it was important.Biker wrote:There is more abundant and accurate manuscript evidence for the New Testament thanfor ANY other book from the ancient world. There are more manuscripts copied with greater accuracy and earlier dating than for any secular classic from antiquity.goat wrote:Hum. None of your sources knew the historical Jesus. And no, the so called 'Old testament' does not acknowledge Jesus as a Messiah..Biker wrote:A historical figure named Jesus made claims to other historical figures. This historical figure Jesus demonstrated historical miracles as witnessed by various historical figures.These accounts written down by eyewitnesses record various claims by this historical figure Jesus, volumes of corraborating evidence of which I am not going to futally go into for you,its available readily if you truly desire to honestly investigate. This historical Jesus as I say has made claims:As to His divinity!Cathar1950 wrote:Biker:You are right God doesn’t prove anything to us. How do you know God isn’t insecure? After all isn’t he is a Jealous God? I don’t think his issue is that obvious or you would have presented it better then a desire to have him come down and personally “plainly and unambiguously demonstrated His existence" just for anyone! The problem is that you think he did and because the reported demonstration is good enough for you it should be good enough for everyone. You say it is the bible, which shows us that the bible is where you place your faith and everything else is secondary. If most including Mack don’t believe your bible and the trust in its ambiguous and varied messages then maybe the problem isn’t with us humans. Maybe the problem is with the humans that so willingly believe what they want to believe from rather questionable sources about ultimate reality. My mind is not made up and I am not going to speak for others but your mind seems closed and I would suspect it is from fear that you are unable to entertain other ideas and doubts. My complaint is not what God is or isn’t doing. I take issue with your claims concerning the bible and your interpretation, which seems largely a projected scheme that makes Jesus a God that died for your sins so you can feel like everything is fixed except what you blame on the unbeliever.I answered the question ,you don't like the answer.God is going to prove nothing to you, he has nothing to prove to you. Is God insecure,NO.Obviously your issue with unbelief is that God has not come down off His throne and personally " plainly and unambiguously demonstrated His existence" just for you! The problem is HE DID, but you don't like the demonstration!
This is very simple,God has a plan,its written down, its called the bible.You among others can accept it or not.Most don't including you.I do,I believe the bible therefore it is true to me and for me, sadly, it is not for you. I guess we will see how it works out in the end. Just make sure your opinion is right is about all I could offer you,because your mind is made up as is mine. What in your great wisdom, would you have done differently,or do differently,since you don't like the way the nonGod is doing?
As Jehovah,Isa.40:3,with Matt.3:3;Jehovah of glory,Psa.24:7,10, with 1 Cor.2:8;Jas.2:1;Jehovah our righteousness,Jer.23:5,6, with 1 Cor. 1:30; Jehovah above all,Psa.97:9,with John 3:31; Jehovah the first and the last,Isa.44:6, with Rev.1:17; Isa.48:12-16,with Rev. 22:13; Jehovahs fellow and equal,Zech.13:7;with Phil.2:6;Jehovah of Hosts,Isa.6:1-3,with John 12:41;Isa.8:13,14, with 1 Peter. 2:8; Jehovah, Psa. 110:1, with Matt.22:42-45;Jehovah the shepherd,Isa. 40:10,11;with Heb.13:20; Jehovah, for whose glory all things were created, Prov.16:4, with Col. 1:16;Jehovah the messenger of the coveant,Mal. 3:1,with Luke 7:27.
Invoked as Jehovah,Joel 2:32, with 1 Cor.1:2; as the eternal God and creator, Psa. 102:24-27,with Heb.1:8,10-12; the mighty God ,Isa.9:6; the great God and Savior, Hos.1:7,with Tit.2:13;God over all,Rom. 9:5; God the Judge , Eccl.12:14, with 1Cor. 4:5; 2Cor.5:10;2 Tim.4:1; Emmanuel, Isa.7:14, with Matt. 1:23; King of kings and Lord of lords, Dan.10:17, with Rev.1:5;17:14; the Holy one, 1 Sam. 2:2with Acts3:14;The Lord from heaven, 1Cor.15:47; Lord of the sabbath,Gen.2:3,With Matt.12:8; Lord of all, Acts 10:36;Rom.10:11-13; Son of God, Matt. 26:63-67; the only begotten Son of the Father,John 1:14,18; 3:16,18; 1John4:9. His blood is called the blood of God, Acts 20:28.One wiyh the Father, John 10:30,38; 12:45; 14:7-10;17:10. As sending the Spirit equally with the Father, John 14:16, with John 15:26. As unsearchable equally with the Father, Prov.30:4; Matt. 11:27. As Creator of all things, Isa.. 40:28;John 1:3; Col.1:16; supporter and preserver of all things, Neh. 9:6, with Col. 1:17; Heb. 1:3. ACKNOWLEDGED by OLD TESTAMENT saints, Gen.17:1,with Gen.48:15,16; 32:24-30, with Hos. 12:3-5; Judg.6:22-24; 13:21,22; Job 19: 25-27.
Explain to me "ultimate reality?" "My mind is closed", I asked you various questions about claims you make, Im still waiting, perhaps if you answerd me you might enlighten me!What am I blaming on the unbeliever?
Jesus claims to be divine, alot,in many places,obviosly, He is right or He is crazy! I say He is THE Messiah, Savior.I say Jesus is the only way to eternal life,there is no other way. Not in observance of the Law given to Moses, not in muhammed,not in budda,not in living a "good life",not wishing,not in cleverly devised schemes.Just in this peculiar plan spelled out in the bible.If you have a better way let me know, as I asked earlier, how would you do it?
Biker
Biker
Your concerns with Jesus Christ not fulfilling Messianic prophesy,stem merely from a timing or sequency issue not wrong Messiah.goat wrote:Jesus did not do what is needed for the Messiah. He did not kick out the forigners, nor was there world peace after him. He did not have children to carry on afterward. THose are just some of the messanic requirement from the old testament.Biker wrote:Hmm prove it!goat wrote:Hum. None of your sources knew the historical Jesus. And no, the so called 'Old testament' does not acknowledge Jesus as a Messiah..Biker wrote:A historical figure named Jesus made claims to other historical figures. This historical figure Jesus demonstrated historical miracles as witnessed by various historical figures.These accounts written down by eyewitnesses record various claims by this historical figure Jesus, volumes of corraborating evidence of which I am not going to futally go into for you,its available readily if you truly desire to honestly investigate. This historical Jesus as I say has made claims:As to His divinity!Cathar1950 wrote:Biker:You are right God doesn’t prove anything to us. How do you know God isn’t insecure? After all isn’t he is a Jealous God? I don’t think his issue is that obvious or you would have presented it better then a desire to have him come down and personally “plainly and unambiguously demonstrated His existence" just for anyone! The problem is that you think he did and because the reported demonstration is good enough for you it should be good enough for everyone. You say it is the bible, which shows us that the bible is where you place your faith and everything else is secondary. If most including Mack don’t believe your bible and the trust in its ambiguous and varied messages then maybe the problem isn’t with us humans. Maybe the problem is with the humans that so willingly believe what they want to believe from rather questionable sources about ultimate reality. My mind is not made up and I am not going to speak for others but your mind seems closed and I would suspect it is from fear that you are unable to entertain other ideas and doubts. My complaint is not what God is or isn’t doing. I take issue with your claims concerning the bible and your interpretation, which seems largely a projected scheme that makes Jesus a God that died for your sins so you can feel like everything is fixed except what you blame on the unbeliever.I answered the question ,you don't like the answer.God is going to prove nothing to you, he has nothing to prove to you. Is God insecure,NO.Obviously your issue with unbelief is that God has not come down off His throne and personally " plainly and unambiguously demonstrated His existence" just for you! The problem is HE DID, but you don't like the demonstration!
This is very simple,God has a plan,its written down, its called the bible.You among others can accept it or not.Most don't including you.I do,I believe the bible therefore it is true to me and for me, sadly, it is not for you. I guess we will see how it works out in the end. Just make sure your opinion is right is about all I could offer you,because your mind is made up as is mine. What in your great wisdom, would you have done differently,or do differently,since you don't like the way the nonGod is doing?
As Jehovah,Isa.40:3,with Matt.3:3;Jehovah of glory,Psa.24:7,10, with 1 Cor.2:8;Jas.2:1;Jehovah our righteousness,Jer.23:5,6, with 1 Cor. 1:30; Jehovah above all,Psa.97:9,with John 3:31; Jehovah the first and the last,Isa.44:6, with Rev.1:17; Isa.48:12-16,with Rev. 22:13; Jehovahs fellow and equal,Zech.13:7;with Phil.2:6;Jehovah of Hosts,Isa.6:1-3,with John 12:41;Isa.8:13,14, with 1 Peter. 2:8; Jehovah, Psa. 110:1, with Matt.22:42-45;Jehovah the shepherd,Isa. 40:10,11;with Heb.13:20; Jehovah, for whose glory all things were created, Prov.16:4, with Col. 1:16;Jehovah the messenger of the coveant,Mal. 3:1,with Luke 7:27.
Invoked as Jehovah,Joel 2:32, with 1 Cor.1:2; as the eternal God and creator, Psa. 102:24-27,with Heb.1:8,10-12; the mighty God ,Isa.9:6; the great God and Savior, Hos.1:7,with Tit.2:13;God over all,Rom. 9:5; God the Judge , Eccl.12:14, with 1Cor. 4:5; 2Cor.5:10;2 Tim.4:1; Emmanuel, Isa.7:14, with Matt. 1:23; King of kings and Lord of lords, Dan.10:17, with Rev.1:5;17:14; the Holy one, 1 Sam. 2:2with Acts3:14;The Lord from heaven, 1Cor.15:47; Lord of the sabbath,Gen.2:3,With Matt.12:8; Lord of all, Acts 10:36;Rom.10:11-13; Son of God, Matt. 26:63-67; the only begotten Son of the Father,John 1:14,18; 3:16,18; 1John4:9. His blood is called the blood of God, Acts 20:28.One wiyh the Father, John 10:30,38; 12:45; 14:7-10;17:10. As sending the Spirit equally with the Father, John 14:16, with John 15:26. As unsearchable equally with the Father, Prov.30:4; Matt. 11:27. As Creator of all things, Isa.. 40:28;John 1:3; Col.1:16; supporter and preserver of all things, Neh. 9:6, with Col. 1:17; Heb. 1:3. ACKNOWLEDGED by OLD TESTAMENT saints, Gen.17:1,with Gen.48:15,16; 32:24-30, with Hos. 12:3-5; Judg.6:22-24; 13:21,22; Job 19: 25-27.
Explain to me "ultimate reality?" "My mind is closed", I asked you various questions about claims you make, Im still waiting, perhaps if you answerd me you might enlighten me!What am I blaming on the unbeliever?
Jesus claims to be divine, alot,in many places,obviosly, He is right or He is crazy! I say He is THE Messiah, Savior.I say Jesus is the only way to eternal life,there is no other way. Not in observance of the Law given to Moses, not in muhammed,not in budda,not in living a "good life",not wishing,not in cleverly devised schemes.Just in this peculiar plan spelled out in the bible.If you have a better way let me know, as I asked earlier, how would you do it?
Biker
Biker
He, actually, did nothing. Until all the requirements are fullfilled (and none were), then Jesus is not the messiah.Biker wrote: Your concerns with Jesus Christ not fulfilling Messianic prophesy,stem merely from a timing or sequency issue not wrong Messiah.
