Biblical Contradictions

achilles12604 · Post by **achilles12604** » Sat Aug 26, 2006 11:24 pm

Ok. I looked over the last few pages of topics and I couldn't find one dedicated to this discussion (much to my surprise). Therefore I am starting it.

What are the biblical contradictions which the atheists keep refering to and what are the answers by apologists.

Ready, set . . . GO!

upallnite · Post by **upallnite** » Sun Aug 27, 2006 2:56 am

http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/ ... tions.html

Is that what you were looking for. I just did a google search and got 2,620,000 for biblical contradictions in 0.15 seconds.

Do you know of an appologist that is correcting these?

achilles12604 · Post by **achilles12604** » Sun Aug 27, 2006 3:02 am

upallnite wrote:http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/ ... tions.html

Is that what you were looking for. I just did a google search and got 2,620,000 for biblical contradictions in 0.15 seconds.

Do you know of an appologist that is correcting these?

Actually I was hopeful that someone would kindly present one or two they thought were the most detrimental or something like that. A huge list doesn't really help much since the thread you posted has "contradictions" which arn't even contradictions for men much less God.

Example :

War or Peace?
EXO 15:3 The LORD is a man of war: the LORD is his name.

ROM 15:33 Now the God of peace be with you all. Amen.

Kings were expected to keep the Peace as well as defend his country. There is no contradiction even for men much less God.

This is the kind of stuff which caused me to post this thread. If a young person reads this they may find a contradition they can not explain, however for anyone with any knowledge of the basics of Feudal rule, this is NOT a contradiction no matter how much the atheist crowd wishes it to be.

Lets try and focus on some good ones rather than spouting lists which have a few good ones and a ton of horrible ones.

upallnite · Post by **upallnite** » Sun Aug 27, 2006 6:40 am

Well lets start with that first one.

If I punch someone in the nose then say I am non-violent would you not think that something is wrong with that? I would.

You cannot represent peace and war. Peace thru war is just another view forced on a culture. Or is the god you are refering to not good with diplomacy?

achilles12604 · Post by **achilles12604** » Sun Aug 27, 2006 7:02 am

upallnite wrote:Well lets start with that first one.

If I punch someone in the nose then say I am non-violent would you not think that something is wrong with that? I would.

You cannot represent peace and war. Peace thru war is just another view forced on a culture. Or is the god you are refering to not good with diplomacy?

What would you say to a good king who took care of his people but as soon as either he was challenged by one of his own or he was attacked by another kingdom, he gave up and refused to fight because he was such a nice guy?

Nw lets look at the other side, what would you say to a king who protected everyone in his kingdom and the entire country was well run and under great control, and no one ever attacked because all other nations were afraid of this king, but he also had absolutly no love and punished even little mistakes with great brutality?

Ok. If you insist that there is a contradiction then you have to pick one king or the other. No one could ever be both loving and strong at the same time.

You pick.

bernee51 · Post by **bernee51** » Sun Aug 27, 2006 7:22 am

achilles12604 wrote:Ok. I looked over the last few pages of topics and I couldn't find one dedicated to this discussion (much to my surprise). Therefore I am starting it.

What are the biblical contradictions which the atheists keep refering to and what are the answers by apologists.

Ready, set . . . GO!

How about, Exodus 33:20 states: "And he said, ‘Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live." This verse is confirmed by John 1:18, which states, "No man hath seen God at any time." Yet there are instances in which the contrary is recorded: Exodus 33:11 (just 9 verses prior to the former) states, "And the Lord spake to Moses face to face, as a man speaketh to a friend." Job 42:5 states, "I have heard of thee by the hearing of the ear: but now mine eye seeth thee." (The context of the verse in Job is clarified by the first verse of the chapter, which states, "Then Job answered the Lord, and said…," indicating that he is speaking to God and about God.)

achilles12604 · Post by **achilles12604** » Sun Aug 27, 2006 7:55 am

bernee51 wrote:
achilles12604 wrote:Ok. I looked over the last few pages of topics and I couldn't find one dedicated to this discussion (much to my surprise). Therefore I am starting it.

What are the biblical contradictions which the atheists keep refering to and what are the answers by apologists.

Ready, set . . . GO!
How about, Exodus 33:20 states: "And he said, ‘Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live." This verse is confirmed by John 1:18, which states, "No man hath seen God at any time." Yet there are instances in which the contrary is recorded: Exodus 33:11 (just 9 verses prior to the former) states, "And the Lord spake to Moses face to face, as a man speaketh to a friend." Job 42:5 states, "I have heard of thee by the hearing of the ear: but now mine eye seeth thee." (The context of the verse in Job is clarified by the first verse of the chapter, which states, "Then Job answered the Lord, and said…," indicating that he is speaking to God and about God.)

First I am going to pull up the verses and get a full view of what was written.

Exodus 33:20 18 Then Moses said, "Now show me your glory."

19 And the LORD said, "I will cause all my goodness to pass in front of you, and I will proclaim my name, the LORD, in your presence. I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. 20 But," he said, "you cannot see my face, for no one may see me and live."

21 Then the LORD said, "There is a place near me where you may stand on a rock. 22 When my glory passes by, I will put you in a cleft in the rock and cover you with my hand until I have passed by. 23 Then I will remove my hand and you will see my back; but my face must not be seen."

First, Moses is talking with God and only when Moses asks to see God's glory, does God mention Moses not being able to see him. The emphasis is defiantly on or about his Glory. Then the Lord uses the word Face (presuming the copiest didn't make an error which may be possible but lets play it out like they didn't). This seems that the Lord would equate his face with his Glory.

1 John 18 "16From the fullness of his grace we have all received one blessing after another. 17For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. 18No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only,[e][f]who is at the Father's side, has made him known."

This mirrors verse 20 from Exodus where he says "No one must see me." Now you have to decide if the writer of John (who was a Jew) who must have known what verse he was citing which is likely this same one Bernee found, intended to agree with the Old Testament Scriptures. Since John mirrors almost exactly the phrase in Exodus, I would say he meant this in the same fashion as was written there, with the emphasis on the Lord's face, rather than any part of him. It seems that it is his Glory which is ultimately protected.

Those two agree and since the wording is very similar and John is making a reference which matches the writing of Exodus, I think we can assume that either he was citing that writing or at least he was aware of it when he wrote.

Exodus 33:11 "10 Whenever the people saw the pillar of cloud standing at the entrance to the tent, they all stood and worshiped, each at the entrance to his tent. 11 The LORD would speak to Moses face to face, as a man speaks with his friend. Then Moses would return to the camp, but his young aide Joshua son of Nun did not leave the tent."

I can see where one might claim a contradiction here. The literal words used are "face". However speaking face to face may also refer to speaking directly, not literally face to face. I think this is not to far fetched because before the "face to face" the Lord is described as a cloud descending, which would indicate no physical body parts to see, and right after "face to face" the author is careful to insert "as to a friend." This would indicate to me that the Lord spoke directly to moses clearly and as a friend, but he did not necessarily reveal his Glory or his "face".

An example would be a bank robber with a mask or two people conversing at a halloween party. The parties involved speak face to face and as friends(maybe not friends in the case of the robber but you get the idea), but the faces are still hidden and "safe". I can have an entire conversation face to face with someone, and they never have to see my face at all to do it. And if I am asked about it later in court or something "I talked to him face to face." and I wouldn't be lying.

Lastly,

Job 4 "You said, 'Listen now, and I will speak;
I will question you,
and you shall answer me.'

5 My ears had heard of you
but now my eyes have seen you.

6 Therefore I despise myself
and repent in dust and ashes."

This one is less of a problem than the exodus verse because no where does it say Job say a part of God he was not supposed to. Moses saw God's back, so there is absolutely no contradiction with this passage.

I think if you wished to take everything exactly word for word (which is what I am sure the non-christians in this crowd will do), you could find a contradiction. However, after analysing this just now, I do not see a problem. In short, what we are not allowed to see is God's Glory. The greatest support for this is the distinction God makes in Exodus 33 : 18-23. He is very clear that his Glory must not be revealed but that seeing parts of him would be ok. This is where a contradiction falls down here.

Anyone else have any thoughts?

wuntext · Post by **wuntext** » Sun Aug 27, 2006 8:44 am

achilles12604 wrote:Ok. I looked over the last few pages of topics and I couldn't find one dedicated to this discussion (much to my surprise). Therefore I am starting it.

What are the biblical contradictions which the atheists keep refering to and what are the answers by apologists.

Ready, set . . . GO!

Who was Joseph's father?

Matt 1:16 "... and Jacob was the father of Joseph, the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.

Luke 3:23 "... being the son (as was supposed) of Joseph, the son of Heli"

Lotan · Post by **Lotan** » Sun Aug 27, 2006 9:28 am

Oooo...ooo...I've got one!

The bible says that Jesus' apostles continued to worship at the Temple after his death. What's up with that?

Goat · Post by **Goat** » Sun Aug 27, 2006 9:37 am

achilles12604 wrote:Ok. I looked over the last few pages of topics and I couldn't find one dedicated to this discussion (much to my surprise). Therefore I am starting it.

What are the biblical contradictions which the atheists keep refering to and what are the answers by apologists.

Ready, set . . . GO!

How did Judas die, and who bought the field of blood?

What year was Jesus born?

Debating Christianity and Religion

Biblical Contradictions

Where do you draw the line on Biblical inerrancy?

Biblical Contradictions

Re: Biblical Contradictions

Re: Biblical Contradictions

Re: Biblical Contradictions

Re: Biblical Contradictions