Is the concept of Original Sin fair?

[Metatron]

I have some concerns about the fairness of Original Sin and would be interested other forum members opinion on this issue.

One of my concerns deals with the account as presented in Genesis. God tells Adam not to eat the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil otherwise he will die. Later of course, Adam and Eve are seduced by that rascally serpent, God banishes them from Eden, and death is brought into the world, etc. The problem I have with this is that by definition, not having yet partaken of the famous apple, Adam and Eve have no concept of good and evil and indeed the threat of death is meaningless to them since they also would have no understanding of what death is! Adam and Eve are innocents who have no moral compass with which to make the decision. Its like telling a toddler who has never been disciplined not to eat the really neat looking poisoned candy and then walking away and seeing what happens.


Another thing that bugs me is the implied concept of inheritability of sin, i.e. Adam and Eve sin so everyone else to the umpteenth generation is equally culpable and has a one-way ticket punched to the Really Hot Place. Where is the personal responsibility in that? Indeed, where is free will if the punishment is already in place without a decision having been made? I would think that God at least would want to punish you for the sins that YOU have committed.

Thank you for your time.

[Goat]

Have you ever thought to concider that God has feelings?

On what basis would you assume god to have feelings? Can these feelings be hurt? How can a 'perfect' being have the potential to be hurt?

Are you sure you are not anthropomorphizing again?

More evidence that man invented god as he would imagine himself to be.

Based on the numerous occations were God said in the Bible I am angry, I am a jelous God, I love my children etc... What basis do you have for assuming that God has no feelings?

How does that counter the question Are you sure you are not anthropomorphizing again?

More evidence that man invented god as he would imagine himself to be . That seems to actually reinforce that concept. We have a different understanding of God than we did back then. While God did not change, our understanding of God did change. Is our understanding of God merely a projection onto God, or is it God himself?

[Metatron]

What do you mean I don't have to worry about being condemned for it?
Do I have eternal life? Do I live in an earthly paradise free of want or pain? All of this was supposedly stripped from me before I was born thanks to original sin. Also assume for arguments sake that I'm some sort of moral paragon who never sins during my life. Do I get into heaven even if I haven't been "saved" or am I still condemned due to original sin?

If you don't ever sin I'd say you go to heaven.

Why does an omni-everything God need a bunch of flawed creations to "glorify" him? Is he so insecure that he requires the adoration of beings vastly inferior to himself? Would you feel better about yourself if an ant colony was worshiping you?

Yes but why does an omni-everything being need or even desire the adulation of beings that are lower than bacteria to him? What's the point?

No an ant colony's worship wouldn't mean much to me , but I sure hope that my son looks up to me, and will want to spend time with me. Have you ever thought to consider that God has feelings?

Yes, but your son is on the same scale is you. To God, your lower than an amoeba or paramecia. Do you have feelings for protozoans? Do you want bacteria to spend "quality time" with you?

[FiredUp4jesus]

Have you ever thought to concider that God has feelings?

On what basis would you assume god to have feelings? Can these feelings be hurt? How can a 'perfect' being have the potential to be hurt?

Are you sure you are not anthropomorphizing again?

More evidence that man invented god as he would imagine himself to be.

Based on the numerous occations were God said in the Bible I am angry, I am a jelous God, I love my children etc... What basis do you have for assuming that God has no feelings?

How does that counter the question Are you sure you are not anthropomorphizing again?

More evidence that man invented god as he would imagine himself to be . That seems to actually reinforce that concept. We have a different understanding of God than we did back then. While God did not change, our understanding of God did change. Is our understanding of God merely a projection onto God, or is it God himself?

Sounds like an excellent question for another thread, but has very little to do with the current one.

[jimvansage]

Let's not assume sin is inherited - Ezekiel 18 would contradict that idea

Ezekiel 18:20 KJV The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

Man then is responsible for his own actions - otherwise it wouldn't be fair at all.

Ezekiel 18:25-29 (NKJV) “Yet you say, ‘The way of the Lord is not fair.’ Hear now, O house of Israel, is it not My way which is fair, and your ways which are not fair? When a righteous man turns away from his righteousness, commits iniquity, and dies in it, it is because of the iniquity which he has done that he dies. Again, when a wicked man turns away from the wickedness which he committed, and does what is lawful and right, he preserves himself alive. Because he considers and turns away from all the transgressions which he committed, he shall surely live; he shall not die. Yet the house of Israel says, ‘The way of the Lord is not fair.’ O house of Israel, is it not My ways which are fair, and your ways which are not fair?

If sin was ever inherited, it was not the case in Ezekiel's day, nor in Paul's (compare Rom. 7:7-9).

[ttruscott]

I have some concerns about the fairness of Original Sin and would be interested other forum members opinion on this issue.

One of my concerns deals with the account as presented in Genesis. God tells Adam not to eat the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil otherwise he will die. Later of course, Adam and Eve are seduced by that rascally serpent, God banishes them from Eden, and death is brought into the world, etc. The problem I have with this is that by definition, not having yet partaken of the famous apple, Adam and Eve have no concept of good and evil and indeed the threat of death is meaningless to them since they also would have no understanding of what death is! Adam and Eve are innocents who have no moral compass with which to make the decision. Its like telling a toddler who has never been disciplined not to eat the really neat looking poisoned candy and then walking away and seeing what happens.


Another thing that bugs me is the implied concept of inheritability of sin, i.e. Adam and Eve sin so everyone else to the umpteenth generation is equally culpable and has a one-way ticket punched to the Really Hot Place. Where is the personal responsibility in that? Indeed, where is free will if the punishment is already in place without a decision having been made? I would think that God at least would want to punish you for the sins that YOU have committed.

Thank you for your time.

Many Bible verses suggest we are sinners from birth. Due to the doctrine of our pre-earth fall into sin being hidden until the end times, they did the best they could by a

mis-interpretation of the federal headship of Adam in which we (supposedly) are all sinful due to him

contra Ezekiel 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

which they often just ignore.

The federal headship of Adam is what makes it possible of Christ to die but once for the sins af all the sinful elect BUT is NOT THE CAUSE of their being born in sin.

All the verses whcich say we are born in sin support the proposition that we were created first, before the physical universe, and in this spirit life we were separated by our true free will decisions into the holy elect, the sinful elect and the non-elect, prepared for hell.

These pre-earth sins of the elect are the base for the doctrine of our original sin, little understood due to its hidden nature as were the divine nature of the Messiah and that HE would die and that He would be ressurected etc etc were hidden.

Peace, Ted