Questions about God...

[dualceleron]

Hi everyone,

I came across this on the web:

http://uqconnect.net/slsoc/bsq/budchr4.htm

I found the arguments there hard to refute. Can some Christian brothers and sisters help me refute the arguments there?

[Easyrider]

Bernee51 wrote: Buddha also is reputed to have walked on water and fed the multitudes along with a couple of the other party tricks attributed to Jesus.

You'll have to document that one for me, please. State the general time period this occurred (within about 50 years), and present the earliest manuscript attestation for that (including date and author), and state whether the individual who wrote about that was an eyewitness.

[HughDP]

Bernee51 wrote: Buddha also is reputed to have walked on water and fed the multitudes along with a couple of the other party tricks attributed to Jesus.

You'll have to document that one for me, please. State the general time period this occurred (within about 50 years), and present the earliest manuscript attestation for that (including date and author), and state whether the individual who wrote about that was an eyewitness.

Three monks decided to practise meditation together. They sat by the side of a lake and closed their eyes in concentration. Then suddenly, the first one stood up and said, "I forgot my mat." He stepped miraculously onto the water in front of him and walked across the lake to their hut on the other side.

When he returned, the second monk stood up and said, "I forgot to put my other underwear to dry." He too walked calmly across the water and returned the same way.

The third monk watched the first two carefully in what he decided must be the test of his own abilities. "Is your learning so superior to mine? I too can match any feat you two can perform," he declared loudly and rushed to the water's edge to walk across it. He promptly fell into the deep water.

Undeterred, the yogi climbed out of the water and tried again, only to sink into the water. Yet again he climbed out and yet again he tried, each time sinking into the water. This went on for some time as the other two monks watched.

After a while, the second monk turned to the first and said, "Do you think we should tell him where the stones are?"

[Scrotum]

Hi everyone,

I came across this on the web:

http://uqconnect.net/slsoc/bsq/budchr4.htm

I found the arguments there hard to refute. Can some Christian brothers and sisters help me refute the arguments there?

Refute what?

Its like posting a link to a page saying that the King od England exist.. Well.. HE DOES?


Buddha DID exist,l and we have LOTS of documentation telling us what he been up to. Just face it, why refute it? You should be hppy you cant refute it, it means its true, does it not ?

[Suzanne]

Bernee51 wrote: Buddha also is reputed to have walked on water and fed the multitudes along with a couple of the other party tricks attributed to Jesus.

You'll have to document that one for me, please. State the general time period this occurred (within about 50 years), and present the earliest manuscript attestation for that (including date and author), and state whether the individual who wrote about that was an eyewitness.

Three monks decided to practise meditation together. They sat by the side of a lake and closed their eyes in concentration. Then suddenly, the first one stood up and said, "I forgot my mat." He stepped miraculously onto the water in front of him and walked across the lake to their hut on the other side.

When he returned, the second monk stood up and said, "I forgot to put my other underwear to dry." He too walked calmly across the water and returned the same way.

The third monk watched the first two carefully in what he decided must be the test of his own abilities. "Is your learning so superior to mine? I too can match any feat you two can perform," he declared loudly and rushed to the water's edge to walk across it. He promptly fell into the deep water.

Undeterred, the yogi climbed out of the water and tried again, only to sink into the water. Yet again he climbed out and yet again he tried, each time sinking into the water. This went on for some time as the other two monks watched.

After a while, the second monk turned to the first and said, "Do you think we should tell him where the stones are?"

There is a Difference In The name of JESUS CHRIST, and

Buddah, Mohammand, Or any other name one may CLAIM as their lord and Savior.

APPARENTLY the truth of the Gospel that has been written of taught preached and is believed in by faith by man CHRISTIANS throughout all the GENERATIONAL ages. IS a truth that to many would just as soon not have to deal with. SO all that are against the ONLY BEGOTTEN SON OF GOD we as CHRISTIANS claim and believe in our hearts IS the CHRIST! THE ONLY BEGOTTEN OF GOD THE FATHER. CONFESSING HIS ONCE FOR ALL SACRIFICE FOR US and whosoever will believe CONFESSS and will HAVE HIS PROMISE FULFILLED in their lives. THAT BAPTISM of HIS HOLY SPIRIT. LIVING BY FAITH. KNOWING THAT THESE TRUTHS that has been written HAVE ALREADY been PROVEN TO US OR we would not stand BY THIS GOSPEL. and put up with all the PEOPLE THAT ARE AGAINST US FOR OUR FAITH OUR TRUTH OUR SPIRIT AND OUR HONEST CONFESSION OF THIS LORD AND SAVIOR that we know is RISEN and RESIDES IN OUR HEARTS TO LEAD and GUIDE US IN ALL WE SAY AND DO IN THIS LIFE. along with FORGIVING OUR TRESSPASSING AS WE FORGIVE those who TRESSPASS AGAINST US. FOR WE REALLY DO LIVE BY OUR FAITH. HAVING ALREADY HAD OUR PROOF OF HIS TRUTH OF WHAT HAS BEEN SAID WRITTEN OF HIM ... OUR SAVIOR IS ALIVE AND WELL. BUDDAH i dead , and so is Mohammand.. JESUS CHRIST has risen..and LIVES.

OF COURSE all that disagree are perfectly free to do so. all are and have the ability to deny THE WORD OF GOD, or RECIEVE THAT WORD. CHOICE!!! GOD THE FATHER GAVE MAN chooice right in the beginning.. and HE IS NOT ABOUT TO CHANGE HIS MIND ON giving MAN choice.

It is not at all surprising to me that so many make the wrong choice and DENY THE ONLY BEGOTTEN SON OF GOD . because ADAM MADE THE MISTAKE in making the wrong choice right from the start... WHY would THAT SAME MAN ever CHANGE HIS MIND to BE OBEDIENT now or ever. ????? FOR GOD is not a man to LIE, neither is He a man to repent.

AND THAT MAN WAS CREATED in the image of GOD ALMIGHTY HIS HEAVENLY FATHER. JUST BEING WHAT HE WAS in the beginning a DISOBEDIENT CHILD OF THY LORD THY GOD. CHOOSING TO DO WHAT HE THINKS TO DO AND SAY. INSTEAD OF JUST DOING what was right to do BE OBEDIENT TO the ONE THAT HAD CREATED HIM AND GIVEN HIM LIFE.

Because of this CHOICE THAT FIRST MAN MADE. all mankind dies. WE AS CHRISTIANS know we shall die. HOW DO WE KNOW THIS . because GOD IS NOT A MAN TO LIE. HE said that if the FRUIT OF THE TREE OF KNOWLEDGE OF GOOD AND EVIL WAS EATEN BY HIM.. THEN DEATH WOULD COME TO HIM.

SO IT DID AND HAS AND STILL DOES!! and IT WILL ALWAYS BE SO. BECAUSE GOD IS NOT A MAN TO LIE. YET GOD HAS made a way FOR OUR LIFE to be ETERNAL.. and IT CAN BE SO. BUT it requires FAITH TO BELIEVE IN ONES HEART THAT JESUS IS THE ONLY BEGOTTEN SON OF GOD. CONFESSING HIM AS HAVING BEEN RAISED FROM THE DEAD ,WITH THY MOUTH. THEN AND ONLY THEN SHALT THY BE SAVED.

FOR IT TAKES FAITH... TO BELIEVE IN THAT WE DO NOT SEE. BUT HAVE KNOWN BECAUSE OF HIS BAPTISM. THAT HAS been promised to be sent GIVEN and REVEALED and MANIFESTED TO ALL that HAVE believed CONFESSED THIS ONLY BEGOTTEN SON THAT GOD GAVE for the WORLD SO MUCH HE GAVE ALL HE HAD TO GIVE. the BLOOD AND LIFE OF HIS ONLY BEGOTTEN SON. WE AS CHRISTIANS FAITHFUL SPIRITFILLED BELIEVERS AND CONFESSERS OF THIS JESUS CHRIST THAT HAS come in the flesh TO the EARTH and this world TO SAVE IT FOR ALL ETERNITY.

To deny the SON is to be denied to the FATHER IN HEAVEN. there really is only one way to the Father and thatis throuigh the ONLY BEGOTTEN SON OF GOD JESUS CHRIST whom has risen andhas been given all authority in heaven and on earth.

HE NO LONGER PRAYS to the father for us WE HAVE EVERY RIGHT TO COME BEFORE THE THRONE and ask of OUR HEAVENLY FATHER OURSELVES. FOR WE HAVE believed. SOUGHT THE KINGDOM OF GOD, CONFESSED HIS SON JESUS CHRIST AS OUR LORD AND SAVIOR. as being that RISEN CHRIST WHOM now sits at the right hand of the FATHER IN HEAVEN. and WE HAVE RECIEVED HIS GOSPEL HIS GOOD NEWS THAT HAS BEEN PROPHECIED ABOUT< FULFILLED< AND MANIFESTED WITHIN OUR HEARTS AND MINDS. JUST AS PROMISED IT WOULD BE DONE . JUST AS IT HAS BEEN WRITTEN FOR US ALL ..

WE HAVE ACCEPTED HIS LOVE, HISMERCY, HIS GRACE, HIOS TRUTH, HIS LIGHT, HIS GOSPEL BY FAITH . because NONE CAN PLEASE GOD ALMIGHTY WITHOUT FAITH IN THAT GOD ALMIGHTY THAT JAS GIVEN US LIFE TO LIVE BY THROUGH AND IN HIM

AND WHEN THAT PROMISED DEATH COMES??? WE AS HIS CAN SAY DEATH where is your sting? FOR The STING OF DEATH is IN SIN.. BUT the LIFE ETERNAL IS IN HIM AND HIS ONLY BEGOTTEN AND BY HIS BAPTISM OF HIS HOLY SPIRIT THAT SAVES AND will LIVE ON IN ETERNITY in the hearts and minds of all that HAVE COME TO KNOW the TRUTH OF GOD, the FATHER, JESUS CHRIST the SON and THE HOLY SPIRIT . ALL being a witness in HEAVEN.. and are ONE!!!! LORD, ONE FAITH. and ONE BAPTISM.

CHOICE??? WE ALL HAVE A CHOICE??? WE CAN REPENT , TURN FROM OUR SINFUL WAYS BY FAITH . KNOWING THAT IT IS HIS TRUTH THAT FORGIVES. AND IT IS BY HIS BLOOD WE ARE REDEEMED. AND IT IS BY HIS FAITHFULNESS IN ALL HE HAS SAID AND DONE FOR THE WORLD THAT WE MIGHT BE SAVED. I THANK GOD FOR THE BLOOD.. THE WORD, THE SON, THAT HAS BEEN FAITHFUL TRUE AND REAL IN MY LIFE.

NO none have to CHOOSE CHRIST JESUS THE ONLY BEGOTTEN SON NOT AT ALL. YET WITHOUT THE FATHER GOD there would have been NO SON OF GOD and without the SON OF GOD there would have not been any PRMISED BAPTISM of the COMFORTER , THAT BAPTISM of the HOLY SPIRIT. NO FATHER, NO SON, NO HOLY SPIRIT. then there is no MAN WOMAN OR EARTH OR ANYTHING ELSE.. NO BLOOD NO WATER AND NO SPIRIT. NO WRITTEN WORD , NO BOOK OF LIFE, NO BIBLE, NO OLD TESTAMENT, NO NEW TESTAMENT, NO BOOK OF REVELATION. NO HEAVEN , and OF COPURSE NO HELL . SO I GUESS to DENY CHRIST IS A GREAT WAY FOR ALL TO MAKE THAT CHOICE.. BECAUSE THEN ONE CAN JUST CONTINUE MURDERING, STEALING, COMMITTING ADULTRY, HAVING SEXUAL RELATIONS WITH ANYONE AND ANYTHING THETY CHOOSE TO HAVE SEXUAL RELATIONS WITH . EVEN THEIR OWN CHILDREN OR SOMEONE ELSES I MEAN AFTER ALL IF THE WRITTEN WORD OF GOD HAS NO TRUTH AS IT HAS BEEN WRITTEN TAUGHT BELIE VED BY MANY EVER SINCE JESUS CHRIST GAVE HIS LIFE ON THE CROSS OF CALAVRY> AND GENESIS 1;1: never really happened then HEY THERE NO LONGER REMAINS ANY LAW TO ABIDE BY RIGHT??? WE AS HMANBEINGS CAN jyust do anything we want to do say anything we want to say be whatever we want to be and just not care at all about anyone for any reason because after all GOD IS NOT, the SON is not and neither is there any HOL:Y SPIRIT BAPTISM TO BE GIVEN TO ANYONE RIGHT?????? OF COURSE so tell ya what GO AHEAD and DENY THE SON make that choice because then YOU do not have to take any responsibility for anything you have ever done IN THIS LIFE. because YOU NEED NO FORGIVENESS because THERE is NO SIN GOOD OR EVIL IN the world right??? because GOD NEVER CREATED IT (THE WORLD and neither has HE done anything to save it. LET ALONG done anything for forgiveness that YOU HAVE NO NEED OF RIGHT???

I am really sorry TO TELL YOU THIS .. YOU SEE we all have sinned and we all have a need for forgivenesss. IF YOU DO NOT ALREADY UNDERSTAND HOW THAT FORGIVENESS is GIVEN. then I am truly sorryu for you .

and I do forgive you for your ETERNAL IGNORANCE TO HIS WORD, HIS SON, AND HIS SPIRIT.

IF YOU FORGIVE THE SINS OF ANY, THEY ARE FORGIVEN THEM. BUT IF YOU RETAIN THE SINS OF ANY, THEY ARE RETAINED.

THIS IS and has been written IN THAT BOOK OF BOOKS. THAT APPARENTLY does not exist because THE WORD , THE FATHER, CREATOR, GOD ALMIGHTY, HIS ONLY BEGOTTE SON, and HIS HOLY SPIRIT BAPTISM HAS NOT been WRITTEN OF ABOUT OR been MANIFESTED TO YOU THIS DAY .

REMEMBER YOU DO NOT NEED ANY FORGIVENESS because YOU HAVEnever DONE ANYTHING AT ALL TO be FORGIVEN FOR .. NOW if YOU CAN SAY YES TO THAT . YOU HAVE JUST SINNED BECAUSE YOU HAVE LIED. TO YOURSELF AND ME. and everybody else that read your yes answer.

WE ALL HAVE LIED, BEEN DISOBEDIENT, TO OUR LORD THY GOD!!!!

TO DENY THIS TRUTH is TO DENY ALL TRUTH OF HIM GOD WHOM WAS the WORD IN THE BEGINNING THAT IS written of IN GENESIS, 1;1: -and in JOHN 1; 1:-15: HIS SON AND In JOHN 14; 15:-18: & John 16; 5:-11: HIS HOLY SPIRIT... and Revelation 1;1:-3:,, 14;13:,,,20;11:-15:,,, 22; 6:-21: ,,

I believe TODAY YOU HAVE A CHOICE TO MAKE.. CHOOSE THE TRUTH OR believe A LIE.

REMEMBER the DEAD THAT DIE, IN THE Lord FROM NOW ON..

You should UNDERSTAND just WHO IS Lord and SAVIOR of YOUR LIFE.

BELIEVE IN HIS TRUTH AND NOT men that have NOT any truth IN THEM...

HAVE I LIED IN MY LIFETIME OF COURSE. am I A SINNER IN NEED OF HIS FORGIVENESS and GRACE ABSOLUTELY, MAKE NO MISTAKE ABOUT IT ...

WE ALL NEED HIS MERCY LOVE AND GRACE OF HIS TRUTH WORD< LIGHT< AND THAT FAITH HE HAS GIVEN TO EACH A MEASURE.

GOD'S WILL is that NONE PERISH!

TO be BORN ONCE is to DIE TWICE, TO be BORN TWICE, is to DIE ONCE.

JOHN 3; 3:-21: ,,,Luke 17;20:-37: John 12;31:,32:

Do not disregard the OLD TESTAMENT PROPHETS, FOR ALL THAT WAS WRITTEN THERE HAS BEEN FULFILLLED IN THE NEW TESTAMENT.

AND ALL IS REVEALED IN the BOOK OF REVELATION .. TO ANY THAT HAVE FAITH TO BELIEVE< CONFESS< AND RECIEVE HIS BAPTISM AND ENTER INTO HIS KINGDOM.. where PEACE , LOVE and OUR ETERNITY DWELLS. FOR HIS BAPTISM IS THAT BAPTISM THAT WAS WRITTEN OF THATWOULD COME GREATER THEN JOHNS WATER BAPTISM OF REPENTANCE.

JESUS CHRIST HAS FULFILLED IT ALL . THUS HE SAID, HAD WRITTEN, AND IT IS TAUGHT. FORGIVE THEM FATHER FOR THEY KNOW NOT WHAT THEY DO. "IT IS FINISHED"



One Lord, One Faith, One Baptism
Ephesians, 4;5:,6:,7:

There are three that witness on the earth.
The Spirit, BAPTISM.. the Water, BORN ONCE THROUGH THE WATER and THE WATERING of the WORD that is GIVEN FREE TO ALL that HAVE EARS to hear.. and the Blood. THERE CAN BE NO LIFE without the Blood. These three AGREE as ONE.


Life is IN THE BLOOD. SO THE LORD GOD HAS HAD WRITTEN, SAID, AND IT IS TRUTH..


MAY THE BLESSINGS OF THE FATHER IN HEAVEN , BE upon Those that have believed, will confess, and MAY THEY RECIEVE YOUR BAPTISM .. I ask this In JESUS NAME. amen.

[melikio]

It ultimately boils down to where one decides to place their faith (or is capable of placing it).

There is a type of peer/social influence in every culture, which tends to "steer" folks toward the dominant or common belief system/s.

Not that I would call any particular religion over the other, but that most of us typically decide (based upon many social and personal factors) what we shall put our faith it.

Personally, I've come to the point where I'll share what I believe and think is "right" about Christianity, but I ALWAYS leave the actual process of deciding (embracing or being devoted to) about a particular belief system to the individual. I've found that helps keep the peace between people, and perhaps at some point allows them to consider what I believe without the kind of COMPULSION that many religious people are willing to HEAP upon those they believe are "infidels" or "unbelievers".

It's mostly about "faith", not immutable evidence or truth.

-Mel-

[HughDP]

It ultimately boils down to where one decides to place their faith (or is capable of placing it).

There is a type of peer/social influence in every culture, which tends to "steer" folks toward the dominant or common belief system/s.

Not that I would call any particular religion over the other, but that most of us typically decide (based upon many social and personal factors) what we shall put our faith it.

Personally, I've come to the point where I'll share what I believe and think is "right" about Christianity, but I ALWAYS leave the actual process of deciding (embracing or being devoted to) about a particular belief system to the individual. I've found that helps keep the peace between people, and perhaps at some point allows them to consider what I believe without the kind of COMPULSION that many religious people are willing to HEAP upon those they believe are "infidels" or "unbelievers".

It's mostly about "faith", not immutable evidence or truth.

-Mel-

I think that's quite well said Melikio. People find what suits their worldview and what works for them in day-to-day life. It ranges from abject atheism through all the religions and denominantions in the world and that, as far as I'm concerned, is fine.

Different paths. We're all entitled to believe our path is the best, but I think we should try to do that with respect for other paths.

There is one thing in relation to this thread's topic that is useful to understand about Buddhism and that's that the writings and stories about the Buddha are taken in a totally different way by Buddhists than the equivalent writings of other religions are taken by their practicioners. Buddhist writings are not generally taken as 'gospel' and it matters little how much of what the Buddha did and said is myth or truth.

We (Buddhists) should not identify with Buddhism as a matter of pride or make claims that attempt to 'score points' off other religions. It's an indulgence in self-love or self-enhancement that is most un-Buddhist. One of the most important things in Buddhism is the development of a humble attitude and open mind willing to encompass everything.

It seems these comparisons between the Buddha and Christ are often seen as important to non-Buddhists but you can be assured that they're not important to Buddhists at all.

That's the real situation, but of course we're on a debating forum here and discussion about these things is fair game.

[melikio]

It seems these comparisons between the Buddha and Christ are often seen as important to non-Buddhists but you can be assured that they're not important to Buddhists at all.

I literally STOPPED making such comparisons, because to me, I did begin to notice that such a form of competition, did NOT compare to the value of "cooperation".

When I was younger, I spent a LOT of time and energy trying to understand and combat "racism" and "prejudice"; actually I still work to do the same today, it's just that I've learned how to diffuse things better than I used to (experience).

I have a friend who was deeply Buddhist (at some point in his life), and what I did was accept him as he was period. Since then, I've learned that the value of love is unmeasurable as it relates to "beliefs" and "religion". I DO NOT try to change people; I share with them what I have to share, and continue to help them live this life in whatever ways I'm capable of.

What I've learned (if I can nutshell it), is that it's more effective to make a connection to a person's heart via charity (unconditional love), than to place qualifiers and religious demands upon them, hoping to SWAY them toward what I believe.

Although I may debate here, argue this/that etc., in the final analysis I in my heart allow that person to believe as they do or do not. I may pray to my God to ask Him why they reject what I say, but I am almost absolutely certain that letting them make their own choices about "faith", is the best way. Now, there are social/religious behaviors or proclamations which must be watched or controlled (in a society such as America) because the rights one/many, are not generally allowed to TRAMPLE the rights of ALL. Some religious people have heartburn with that, but I see the intrinsic VALUE of reasonable compromises to allow diverse practices and expressions related to one's beliefs.

That's a very long way of saying I believe in being open-minded, but that's what it amounts to overall.

-Mel-

[bernee51]

Bernee51 wrote: Buddha also is reputed to have walked on water and fed the multitudes along with a couple of the other party tricks attributed to Jesus.

You'll have to document that one for me, please. State the general time period this occurred (within about 50 years), and present the earliest manuscript attestation for that (including date and author), and state whether the individual who wrote about that was an eyewitness.

Personally, I don't believe he (or your Christ) did any of these things.

It is storytelling

[Suzanne]

It ultimately boils down to where one decides to place their faith (or is capable of placing it).

There is a type of peer/social influence in every culture, which tends to "steer" folks toward the dominant or common belief system/s.

Not that I would call any particular religion over the other, but that most of us typically decide (based upon many social and personal factors) what we shall put our faith it.

Personally, I've come to the point where I'll share what I believe and think is "right" about Christianity, but I ALWAYS leave the actual process of deciding (embracing or being devoted to) about a particular belief system to the individual. I've found that helps keep the peace between people, and perhaps at some point allows them to consider what I believe without the kind of COMPULSION that many religious people are willing to HEAP upon those they believe are "infidels" or "unbelievers".

It's mostly about "faith", not immutable evidence or truth.

-Mel-

SO you do not believe that EVIDENCE OF HIS TRUTH IN HIS WORD HE HAS HAD WRITTEN, SAID, AND DONE, is ABLE TO be REAVEALED, MANIFESTED, TO ANY OF us INCLUDING YOU IS THAT RIGHT??

THAT is to bad. If that is true for you..

Because that would mean that YOu have no proof in yourself that tells you that the GOSPEL is REAL and present within you , your heart, mind and Soul.

I believe in the GOD OF CREATION . I BELIEVE IN what has been written for us all. TO LIVE BY. FAITH THAT IT IS HE NOT MANKIND THAT HAS CREATED MAN and woman, BUT IT WAS IS AND HAS been GOD ALMIGHTY THAT HAS CREATED ALL THAT is HAS BEEN and will be forever IN THE AGE TO COME . THERE is NO END TO HIM HIS WORD OR HIS KINGDOM NOR HIS SPIRIT.

[melikio]

SO you do not believe that EVIDENCE OF HIS TRUTH IN HIS WORD HE HAS HAD WRITTEN, SAID, AND DONE, is ABLE TO be REAVEALED, MANIFESTED, TO ANY OF us INCLUDING YOU IS THAT RIGHT??

In this case, "believe" = "faith". You can no more PROVE the evidence you claim, than you can prove you "believe" what you say.

THAT is to bad. If that is true for you..

No, it's not so bad. I have "faith" (don't get me wrong), but I don't have the same "faith" you are describing that I should.

Because that would mean that YOu have no proof in yourself that tells you that the GOSPEL is REAL and present within you , your heart, mind and Soul.

So, what do you THINK you really know? (Really.) You assume far too much about me; leave something to your God, before you step on His toes.

I believe in the GOD OF CREATION .

I do too; but it is based strictly upon faith, some scientific views I hold and a LOT of other stuff I cannot PROVE. It is about "faith" primarily (just s I have said all along).

I BELIEVE IN what has been written for us all. TO LIVE BY.

Ok.

FAITH THAT IT IS HE NOT MANKIND THAT HAS CREATED MAN and woman, BUT IT WAS IS AND HAS been GOD ALMIGHTY THAT HAS CREATED ALL THAT is HAS BEEN and will be forever IN THE AGE TO COME .

PROVE IT (or just "believe" it); your choice. I choose to "believe" it; and I'm as certain that I cannot prove what I believe, as I am that my computer has electrons pumping through it. It's not "logical", but I still believe things that I cannot explain (faith). [Hebrews chapter 11 makes my point, well enough.]

THERE is NO END TO HIM HIS WORD OR HIS KINGDOM NOR HIS SPIRIT.

Amen. But understand, that the full scope of what you claim is unfathomable to human beings; it is a statement of "faith". I do not fault anyone for holding this view; I only fault them for compelling others to "believe" it is true.

These are things which "God" alone (if anyone) can/will reveal to the heaart/mind of those who seek truth... it is not something which you PUSH others to accept because YOU believe in it. I didn't let people push me into positions of "faith"; and I so glad that I didn't. When my faith was tested, it withstood the storms life threw ruthlessly at it. If I had only believed in the things which others SAID I SHOULD or allegedly said have been proven, I would not believe ANYTHING today (most likely).

I've seen more than a few people who so strongly proclaim the things you do, end up NOT believing a damned thing. You see, not ALL atheists are ignorant of the things you share; in fact, most know the WORDS if not "believed" what you claim at some point/s in their past.

What's sad to me, is that some people had to see the "faith" built into their minds by OTHERS, crumble before their eyes, heart and mind... before they were FREE enough to adopt/embrace a "faith" that could truly withstand the tests or trials life would send them.

I support with ALL MY BEING, the right of people to believe as they will, and now vehemently oppose those who PUSH others into positions of "faith" or "belief".

-Mel-