Is God imperfect or simply indifferent?

[Justin108]

Assuming for argument sake that Mark 16:16 and Revelations 21:8 are both true in suggesting that unbelievers are condemned

If God fails to convince each and every one of us that he exists, this either implies that
a) God was unable to convince us he exists (implying imperfection)
b) God did not care to try to convince all of us (implying apathy)

Is God imperfect? Or simply apathetic in our salvation?

[Talishi]

Then what's wrong with Allah killing sinners to show them how serious sin is?

Funny how it's never actually Allah doing the killing, it's always some fella with a bomb vest who says Allah says do the killing who takes out Muslim women and children in a market.

[ttruscott]

Verse 9:5 teaches Muslims to commit mass-murder. The kafirs must either convert to Islam, who would keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate (zakat), or be murdered.

Christians love to rail against the many verses in the Quran that command Muslims to kill non-Muslims, but they also ignore the verses in the Bible commanding the same thing and things that are every bit as barbaric.

imCo
Our GOD has a name and a title: HIS name is YHWH and HIS title is GOD. Allah is not GOD...he has usurped that title but knows better than to usurp the name. Do you have proof he did not?

Only GOD who knows the hearts of all knows who is worthy of death. Allah, as a usurper does not....he calls for murder not justice.

[alexxcJRO]

[Replying to post 92 by ttruscott]

“imCo
Our GOD has a name and a title: HIS name is YHWH and HIS title is GOD. Allah is not GOD...he has usurped that title but knows better than to usurp the name. Do you have proof he did not?

Only GOD who knows the hearts of all knows who is worthy of death. Allah, as a usurper does not....he calls for murder not justice.�

Dammn man your so certain of yourself.

“The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts.�
Bertrand Russell

First I did not make the positive claim that Yahweh is the true God or Allah.
I didn’t made any positive claims about Allah.
My only positive claim was that both the Bible and the Quran teach the murder of infidels; and I provided proof to support my claim; quotes from the books themselves.

You came and talk nonsense out of your ass.
You came and made several positive claims.

1. Yahweh is the true God and not Allah. Please provide positive evidence to support your claim.
2. Allah usurped the title therefore he exists also but he is not a god but a lesser being. Please provide positive evidence to support your claim.
3. Yahweh knows the hearts of all but Allah does not.
Please provide positive evidence to support your claim.

Observation: The bible says to kill every man or woman who broke the commandment "Thou shalt have no other gods"

There is no justice, just intolerance and murder.
No different then what the Quran teaches.

Deuteronomy 17
“2 If a man or woman living among you in one of the towns the Lord gives you is found doing evil in the eyes of the Lord your God in violation of his covenant, 3 and contrary to my command has worshiped other gods, bowing down to them or to the sun or the moon or the stars in the sky, 4 and this has been brought to your attention, then you must investigate it thoroughly. If it is true and it has been proved that this detestable thing has been done in Israel, 5 take the man or woman who has done this evil deed to your city gate and stone that person to death.�

But in other verse in the bible says that you are free to choose not to serve the LORD(Yahweh), but other gods if thats what you desire.
“15 But if serving the LORD seems undesirable to you, then choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods your ancestors served beyond the Euphrates, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you are living. But as for me and my household, we will serve the LORD.�
(Joshua 24:15)
Talking about contradiction and inconsistency, perfect example.
[/b]

[Elijah John]

Dammn man your so certain of yourself....

You came and talk nonsense out of your ass...

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[JehovahsWitness]

Deuteronomy 17
“2 If a man or woman living among you in one of the towns the Lord gives you is found doing evil in the eyes of the Lord your God in violation of his covenant, 3 and contrary to my command has worshiped other gods, bowing down to them or to the sun or the moon or the stars in the sky, 4 and this has been brought to your attention, then you must investigate it thoroughly. If it is true and it has been proved that this detestable thing has been done in Israel, 5 take the man or woman who has done this evil deed to your city gate and stone that person to death.�

If one looks objectively and does not suffers from massive bias both the Quran and the Bible teaches the murder of infidels and none is superior on this matter then the other.

I don't know enough about the Quran to comment about it, but I do know the bible doesn't authorize the random killing of non-believers.

Joshua and his army was authorized to wipe out specific Cananite nations during a specific period. Other than that, the nation were simply authorized to defend their given territory.

As Deut 17:2 you quoted illustrate, there were capital crimes under the ancient Hebrew national law code, but this was imposed on believers and those resident within the nation, not on "infidels". It was also not a blanket call for death, but totaly dependent on whether a law was proven to have been broken.

[alexxcJRO]

[Replying to post 95 by JehovahsWitness]

“I don't know enough about the Quran to comment about it, but I do know the bible doesn't authorize the random killing of non-believers.

Joshua and his army was authorized to wipe out specific Cananite nations during a specific period. Other than that, the nation were simply authorized to defend their given territory.

As Deut 17:2 you quoted illustrate, there were capital crimes under the ancient Hebrew national law code, but this was imposed on believers and those resident within the nation, not on "infidels". It was also not a blanket call for death, but totaly dependent on whether a law was proven to have been broken.�

Wrong. Your guilty of confirmation bias.

Although not a formal logical fallacy, confirmation bias is simply the tendency for individuals to favor information or data that support their beliefs. It is also the tendency for people to only seek out information that supports their a priori, or pre-existing, conclusions, and subsequently ignores evidence that might refute that pre-existing conclusion.

Technically, confirmation bias is a type of cognitive bias and a form of selection bias, which seeks data that confirm the hypothesis under study.

Avoiding confirmation bias is an important part of rationalism. The scientific method, itself, was developed to remove biases. In science, it is achieved by setting up problems so that you must find ways of disproving your hypothesis (see falsifiability).

Let’s see what infidels means:

infidel
ˈɪnfɪd(ə)l/Submit
archaic
noun
1.
a person who has no religion or whose religion is not that of the majority.
"a crusade against infidels and heretics"
synonyms: unbeliever, disbeliever, non-believer, heathen, pagan, idolater, idolatress, heretic, agnostic, atheist, non-theist, nihilist, apostate, freethinker, libertine, dissenter, nonconformist;
https://www.google.ro/search?client=ope ... 8&oe=UTF-8

Conclusion1: infidel = non-believer = idolater

Deuteronomy 17
“2 If a man or woman living among you in one of the towns the Lord gives you is found doing evil in the eyes of the Lord your God in violation of his covenant, 3 and contrary to my command has worshiped other gods, bowing down to them or to the sun or the moon or the stars in the sky, 4 and this has been brought to your attention, then you must investigate it thoroughly. If it is true and it has been proved that this detestable thing has been done in Israel, 5 take the man or woman who has done this evil deed to your city gate and stone that person to death.�

The Bible clearly says any man and woman that worships other gods (therefore non-believers -> therefore infidels) found in Israel will be stoned to death.

Observation: It does not matter if it happens only in Israel or all over the globe.
I didn't said the Bible and the Quran teaches to murder infidels(non-believers, idolaters) all over the globe.
I just said that the Bible and the Quran teaches to murder infidels(non-believers, idolaters); and that is it. Got it?

Quran 9:5
"Then, when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush. But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then leave their way free. Lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful."

The Quran clearly says anyone find guilty of idolatry(therefore non-believers-> therefore infidels)shall be capture and slayed, killed.

Conclusion2: Both Bible and Quran teach the murder of infidels(non-believers, idolaters).

Therefore what you said is nonsense.

[JehovahsWitness]

The Bible clearly says any man and woman that worships other gods (therefore non-believers -> therefore infidels) found in Israel will be stoned to death.

You are merely repeating the point I made. I was pointing out that the bible in no way make a blanket statement that all infidels be executed anywhere on the planet they may be found and regardless of the time (century) or circumstances they may be in.

The death penalty was imposed on those within the Nations borders (ie to residents of the country, subject to the law of the land), while that nation existed as an independent State. There is nothing in the bible that suggests this particularity can legitimately be extrapolated to be considered a call for death for all unbelievers everywhere stretching from that time to our modern era and applicable no matter where those individuals may be on the planet (I am not suggesting that is what you implied, I am simply making the observation).



JW

[alexxcJRO]

[Replying to post 97 by JehovahsWitness]

“You are merely repeating the point I made. I was pointing out that the bible in no way make a blanket statement that all infidels be executed anywhere on the planet they may be found and regardless of the time (century) or circumstances they may be in.
The death penalty was imposed on those within the Nations borders (ie to residents of the country, subject to the law of the land), while that nation existed as an independent State. There is nothing in the bible that suggests this particularity can legitimately be extrapolated to be considered a call for death for all unbelievers everywhere stretching from that time to our modern era and applicable no matter where those individuals may be on the planet (I am not suggesting that is what you implied, I am simply making the observation).�

Q: Why are you boring me, can’t you read?

Q: Why are you trying to change the subject, huh? Why are you trying to weasel out of the rabbit hole you entered and created?

You said in post 95:
“As Deut 17:2 you quoted illustrate, there were capital crimes under the ancient Hebrew national law code, but this was imposed on believers and those resident within the nation, not on "infidels".�

Q: You said the punishment was imposed on believers and not on infidels(non-believers), did you not?

Q: Worshiping other gods, means you don’t believe in the Yahweh, no? Therefore that makes you a non-believer, therefore an infidel, no?

I proved you wrong, that both the Bible and the Quran teach the death of infidels.

It does not matter if it happens only in Israel or all over the globe. It does not matter if it applies only in the ancient time.

Observation:About the extrapolation you mention, the same can say the ordinary muslim(not the fanatic, extremist kind, terrorists and the like).

But and this is a big but …. i don’t care, because:

1. I didn't said the Bible and the Quran teaches to murder infidels(non-believers, idolaters) all over the globe.
2. I didn't said the Bible and the Quran teaches to murder infidels(non-believers, idolaters) in the past, present, future.

I simply just said that the Bible and the Quran teaches to murder infidels(non-believers, idolaters); and that is it. Got it? Are you sure you got it?:))

Q: So its ok that they were intolerant with and murdered infidels(non-believers) in the ancient times in the state of Israel?

Q: It’s ok because it happened only in the past, a limited period of time only in a limited area : Israel, huh?

Your saying basically :
-Nahh, no issue here, it’s k they were killed only back then, only in Israel.

Q: Are you for real? Seriously?

[JehovahsWitness]

Q: Why are you boring me, can’t you read?

Q: Why are you trying to change the subject, huh? Why are you trying to weasel out of the rabbit hole you entered and created?

I find your remarks particularly discourteous. You are neither obliged to read my comments not to reply to them, but I do not expect to be insulted during a debate or an exchange.

Feel free to ignore any posts of mine you find uniteresting or irrelevant.

JW

[JehovahsWitness]

But and this is a big but …. i don’t care, because:

1. I didn't said the Bible and the Quran teaches to murder infidels(non-believers, idolaters) all over the globe.
2. I didn't said the Bible and the Quran teaches to murder infidels(non-believers, idolaters) in the past, present, future.

There is nothing in the bible that suggests this particularity can legitimately be extrapolated to be considered a call for death for all unbelievers everywhere stretching from that time to our modern era and applicable no matter where those individuals may be on the planet (I am not suggesting that is what you implied, I am simply making the observation).

JW

I didn't suggest you did (see above). I do however feel that it is relevant in making a comparison between the Quran and the bible to point out the geographical, legal and chronological constraints that exist in the bible's stipulation on the subject of "non-believers"; which is why I pointed this out.

Outside of the specific wars that Joshua conducted to obtain control of the "Promised land" and those subsequently fought to defend those territories, the killing of unbelievers was not sanctioned unless the individual lived in the territory ("believer" or not) coming under the Mosaic Law code (the national law of the land).

Christians are not authorized in the bible to take a life under any circumstance.

JW