Muslims and Israelites killing people

[agnosticatheist]

1. Christians, do you find the killings carried out by muslims to be horrifying and disgusting?

2. Do you find the killings carried out by the israelites to be horrifying and disgusting?

[marco]

And one group that fell under his heel were believers and clergy, who by the 30s had ceased to be a threat to the Bolshevik government. They were seized solely because they practiced belief.

That's one group. There were others. So the attack was directed at enemies of communism, theist AND non-theist.

And some of them were victims who bore his wrath – most likely because he directed that wrath against them because he had been expelled from a seminary for advocating views inimical to Christianity.

Revenge is a common motivation. You are coming up with multiple reasons for Stalin's pogroms. Basically he wanted to get rid of people.

From your perspective, both the Bible and the Communist Manifesto are the writings of men. Neither of them is holy. The fact that you atheists refuse to accept is that atheist were inspired by Marx’s work to exterminate believers. “We weren’t inspired by a book� is patently false:

I find the "we" ridiculous. Were YOU in Paris defending Muhammad? Let's discuss things objectively.

Communists took a hard-line to spread communism. You want to call them atheists - they might have been ornithologists as well. They were spreading communism. Had they been atheistically driven to kill, there would have been no necessity to kill other atheists.

quote

]I didn’t say that they were interchangeable. I said that communism isn’t communism proper w/o atheism.

Is it not? Christianity is a type of communism. Much of what Jesus taught is communism - all men are equal. The political brand that Stalin and Mao took up required murder - Mao said that power comes from the barrel of a gun. This is another discussion, and divorced from atheism. Bertrand Russell, that famous atheist, was a pacifist. His atheism led him to the belief it is wrong to kill other people. Atheism does not declare that homosexuals or sinning girls have to be stoned. Religion does. You NEVER address this.

Your hypothesis that atheism drives people to murder in the same way that religion does - for me - makes no sense. Atheism demands nothing at all. And remember, SOME religious people kill for their god - not all. However, Islam seems more prone to obeying God's instructions on the death penalty for sexual sin than does modern Christianity. It is not that the Christian God has stopped demanding - he's been ignored.

[Monta]

[Replying to post 98 by JLB32168]

"The communists were inspired by atheism to abolish morality because it supported bourgeois interests, was the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, the soul of soulless conditions, the opium of the people and an illusory happiness – a thing that had to be abolished for the people to have real happiness. If the people wished to keep this illusory happiness but embrace all of the other tenets of communism it was irrelevant. They were out of luck and shipped off to the gulags or worked to death on communal farms."

Russian communism under Stalin was unique in that it was not run by Russians but most were foreigners (as in Lenin) and Jews, 87%. Jewish' religion was their politics and politcs was their religion and the aim was to crush Christianity in Russia.
30.000 clergy killed. almost every church if not flattened it was stripped of anything worth stripping. That is hatred.

Proclaiming religion does not mean you are not an atheist in the heart
and being an atheist does not mean you don't have your personal litlle god you worship.

[rikuoamero]

[Replying to post 101 by Monta]

but most were foreigners (as in Lenin)

Lenin was born in what was called Simbirsk, now Ulyanovsk.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ulyanovsk

The city, originally founded as Simbirsk (Симби�р�к), is the birthplace of Alexander Kerensky and Vladimir Lenin (originally named Ulyanov), for whom it was renamed in 1924.

Proclaiming religion does not mean you are not an atheist in the heart
and being an atheist does not mean you don't have your personal litlle god you worship.

I agree. Examples of Communist leaders have been brought up in this thread time and again, and by and large, they all had personality cults. They were worshipped basically.
Look at North Korea today. Officially, religion is banned there, but they ban religion that worships anything that is not the ruling Kim family.

[Monta]

[Replying to post 102 by rikuoamero]


"Lenin was born in what was called Simbirsk, now Ulyanovsk.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ulyanovsk"

Thanks for that. He lived in exile
and returned to Russia 1917.

[KenRU]

Atheist zealots are quite capable of being inspired by their atheism to commit monstrous acts.

Is this sentence equally true?

"Vegan zealots are quite capable of being inspired by their veganism to commit monstrous acts."

or this?

"Bald people zealots are quite capable of being inspired by their lack of hair to commit monstrous acts."


If all are equally true, then your point has as much weight as saying "people need air to breathe".

-all the best

[JLB32168]

If all are equally true, then your point has as much weight as saying "people need air to breathe".

I know it’s upsetting to be told that atheism inspires human atrocities (e.g. the communist dictators weren’t butchers who happened to be atheist but atheism was made official policy as well as the elimination of religion and the religious if they persisted in their error) but we are all better served by accepting the truth and not deceiving ourselves.

[KenRU]

If all are equally true, then your point has as much weight as saying "people need air to breathe".

I know it’s upsetting to be told that atheism inspires human atrocities (e.g. the communist dictators weren’t butchers who happened to be atheist but atheism was made official policy as well as the elimination of religion and the religious if they persisted in their error) but we are all better served by accepting the truth and not deceiving ourselves.

You mean like accepting the fact that you have yet to answer my questions? Is it more upsetting than that? Lol.

What is a Theists Worldview, JLB? I still haven't rec'd that answer yet.

"Atheist zealots are quite capable of being inspired by their atheism to commit monstrous acts."

I'll ask again: Are these sentences as equally true as yours?

"Vegan zealots are quite capable of being inspired by their veganism to commit monstrous acts."

or this?

"Bald people zealots are quite capable of being inspired by their lack of hair to commit monstrous acts."


I await your wisdom.

[JLB32168]

You mean like accepting the fact that you have yet to answer my questions? Is it more upsetting than that?

Your questions are distractions, K – to distract from the reality that atheism inspired the murder of millions of men and women religious solely because they refused to apostatize.

[KenRU]

You mean like accepting the fact that you have yet to answer my questions? Is it more upsetting than that?

Your questions are distractions, K – to distract from the reality that atheism inspired the murder of millions of men and women religious solely because they refused to apostatize.

Then it should be quite easy to show how they are a distraction. Instead of just saying "You're wrong, I'm right." Repeatedly.

I still await you enlightening me.

[JLB32168]

Then it should be quite easy to show how they are a distraction. Instead of just saying "You're wrong, I'm right." Repeatedly.

I've shown that atheist governments made atheism and the elimination of religion (and the religious if they persisted in their error) official state policy. After that, I didn't need to say that I was right and you were wrong. The evidence does the talking for me, and there's no need for me to indulge this conversation any longer.

Have a wonderful Thursday.