The Bible is not the word of God

[DrProctopus]

A bunch of people who believed that God was talking to them wrote down what they believed God was saying.

The more relevant or successful scriptures were kept and eventually composed into the OT.

Something similar happend after Jesus did his thing, and the NT was produced.


Nowhere in this process do I see any reason to believe that every single word in the Bible is the word of God. Why should I believe someone when they claim to speak for God?

So, the point of debate is this:

Is there actually any decent reason to believe that the Bible is 100% the word of God?

[bartok888]

What you are really arguing for, it appears, is a theory of chaos where sometimes God's word is truth and sometimes it is not. If you believe that we came from an impersonal begining, this could be possible. But if you believe that man has personality because he came from a personal God, which explains the difference between man and non-man (since we were created in His image), then you recognize the chasm between us and God as we are finite and He is infinite in our roles as created vs. creator. Therefore, if God is who He says He is, then we can presume to rely on everything He says to be 100% dependable and that the full inspiration of the scriptures will not fail us, or steer us wrong. God is powerful enough to make sure even we don't screw His word up; because, as He said, His word goes out and does not come back void- rather it accomplishes what it was intended to do. Not some of the time. All of the time.


Very interesting and inspiring teachings of the rabbis. I am sure that many sick people have been healed who believed that the rabbi's prayers would heal them. In fact, all of the eye-witness accounts of the healings of Jesus were very specific in noting that Jesus let it be known unmistakably to those that were healed by Him that it was "their faith" that made them whole- not the name of His Father; although I am sure that there is a great deal of power in knowledge of this kind.

But moreover, have any rabbis ever actually restored sight to the blind, or made a full blown case of leprocy disappear, raise a man from the dead, actually walk on water, have demons recognize them in fear and flee at the mention of their name, or make a deaf mute hear and talk in an instant???

And yes, alot of people thought they were the messiah until they got dead. Then everybody woke up and smelled the coffee and realized that it was just another man- which is the real reason why they killed Jesus- because they wanted to but couldn't quite argue that to heal someone on the sabbath is to violate it, and thus condemn Jesus with the easy application of Jewish law. Then they wanted to claim it was because He had lied, saying He was the son of God, in so many words- but the semantics got in the way of making that super clear for everyone. But certainly, the real motivation was to have this phony who claims to be king of the jews exposed to His many and growing number of followers... and boy, satan thought he had it in the bag.

But then-- one of the most persuasive eye-witness accounts of all time is that of the women who found the empty tomb and all of the details of the encounter and the way in which the witnesses behaved immediately afterwards and how they subsequently relayed the information: all fits in to a totally believeable historical truth-- and WHO ROLLED AWAY THE STONE?, by the way which had been sealed and secured... and there is no way possible that even one roman soldier would have fallen asleep on such an important watch, let alone all four of them who knew that to fall asleep on a roman watch for a soldier meant you die the way they did: an excellent deterrant to incompetence.

But most of all, don't you think that the Roman leaders were livid when they heard the news of being "raised from the dead" and you had better believe they did EVERYTHING in their power which was formidable, to say the least, to discredit the apostles/ and/or find the body or even a portion of the remains to prove the story wrong?--- WHERE ARE THE BONES-- see, they aren't there and they never were because that's why Jesus changed everything because He rose from the dead- which no one had ever done before or since- see, Hell couldn't keep Him which is why we call Him the son of God... and because He conquered death, the difference is that although there is still evil in the world... for the first and ONLY TIME IN THE HISTORY OF RELIGION DO WE NOW HAVE A MEANS OF SALVATION and the forgiveness of sins, through Christ who messed satan up, big-time.

[ENIGMA]

What you are really arguing for, it appears, is a theory of chaos where sometimes God's word is truth and sometimes it is not. If you believe that we came from an impersonal begining, this could be possible. But if you believe that man has personality because he came from a personal God, which explains the difference between man and non-man (since we were created in His image), then you recognize the chasm between us and God as we are finite and He is infinite in our roles as created vs. creator. Therefore, if God is who He says He is, then we can presume to rely on everything He says to be 100% dependable and that the full inspiration of the scriptures will not fail us, or steer us wrong. God is powerful enough to make sure even we don't screw His word up; because, as He said, His word goes out and does not come back void- rather it accomplishes what it was intended to do. Not some of the time. All of the time.

So the Inquisition was an intended result of God's word?

But then-- one of the most persuasive eye-witness accounts of all time is that of the women who found the empty tomb and all of the details of the encounter and the way in which the witnesses behaved immediately afterwards and how they subsequently relayed the information: all fits in to a totally believeable historical truth-- and WHO ROLLED AWAY THE STONE?, by the way which had been sealed and secured...

Presumably someone who was able to get equal or greater mechanical leverage on the stone than the guy who rolled it there in the first place.

and there is no way possible that even one roman soldier would have fallen asleep on such an important watch, let alone all four of them who knew that to fall asleep on a roman watch for a soldier meant you die the way they did: an excellent deterrant to incompetence.

Why take a bribe to confess to a crime that gets you executed?

What good is money if you aren't around to spend it?

[MrWhy]

Nowhere in this process do I see any reason to believe that every single word in the Bible is the word of God. Why should I believe someone when they claim to speak for God?

So, the point of debate is this:

Is there actually any decent reason to believe that the Bible is 100% the word of God?

There is no reason to believe any of the Bible is the word of god.

Unless there is information in scripture that could have only come from a god (one with supernatural power), then that scripture is just the product of human imagination and labor. Historical detail, even corroborated historical facts about human or geological events are not evidence that a god was the source, because historical accounts do not require revelation from a god. Accounts of miracles are also not evidence of a god unless they were corroborated by numerous non-scripture writers who were not involved with the religious movement. Even those accounts would have to be the results of close continuous observation before they would have any value as evidence.

Today, we would not accept stories of miracles or miraculous predictions without substantial proof. Why would we believe a two thousand year old story about a dead person coming back to life? Stories of common or even rare natural events can get by with a few testimonial accounts, but supernatural events should require a great deal of evidence.

To confirm god as the source for scripture, you need prophecies with specific detail information that could have only come from a god.

If the Bible is not the direct or indirect word of a god, then there is no evidence that the god exist.

[Nick Hallandale]

The Bible is not the word of God. If it were it would be perfect.
Christians brag that the Bible is a history book.
I don't think that the New Testament is a good history book.
It contains errors.

Consider the following ......Mark 6:17 KJV
For Herod himself had sent forth and laid hold upon John, and bound him in prison for Herodias' sake, his brother Philip's wife: for he had married her.

Mark said that John the Baptist had been imprisoned by Herod Antipas because Herod Antipas had married, Herodias, the wife of his brother, Phillip.

Now compare the following from Encarta .......
Herod Antipas (21BC- AD39), tetrarch of Galilee and Perea (4BC- AD39), son of Herod the Great. Although comparatively little is known of his reign, he appears to have governed ably. Antipas possessed the cunning of his father but lacked his diplomacy and talent for war. He divorced his first wife, the daughter of Aretas IV (reigned 9BC- AD40), king of the Nabataeans, and married Herodias, former wife of his half brother Herod, thus precipitating a war with Aretas in which Antipas was defeated. He was censured for his marriage by John the Baptist, whose execution Antipas was enticed into ordering (see Mark 6:14-29) by the machinations of Herodias through her daughter, Salome. Later, at the urging of his ambitious wife, Antipas went to Rome and demanded of Emperor Caligula that he be granted the title of king. Instead, Caligula deposed and banished him to Lugdunum (Lyon) in Gaul. Antipas is the Herod most frequently mentioned in the New Testament of the Bible; it was to him that Jesus Christ was sent by Pontius Pilate, procurator of Judea (see Luke 23:7-15).


Encarta says that Herod Antipas married Herodias, the former wife of his brother, Herod, and not Phillip as the NT says in Mark's Gospel.

[Cephus]

Think about it. If you argue that there is a God, at all; then He must be everything he says He is- and therefore- would not lie to us. Nor would He be capable of anything less than perfection and consistency and everything you can rely on.

That does not follow logically at all. Even if you want to believe there is a God, that does not, in any way, shape or form, imply that said God is trustworthy. In fact, if you look at Satan, he's got the power of a god from our standpoint, yet he's the Prince of Lies. You're insisting on things that you can never demonstrate nor prove from anything but blind faith.

Plus how about the fact that EVERY SINGLE PROPHECY (thousands of them; well, at least hundreds) HAS COME TRUE SO FAR... which if the first half of the prophecies all came true; is it not reasonale to believe that the second half will as well?

Please demonstrate a single prophecy that is specific in detail so that we can tell exactly what was prophecied BEFORE THE EVENT.

We'll wait.

[Cephus]

But moreover, have any rabbis ever actually restored sight to the blind, or made a full blown case of leprocy disappear, raise a man from the dead, actually walk on water, have demons recognize them in fear and flee at the mention of their name, or make a deaf mute hear and talk in an instant???

Why don't you produce independent medical records that show that Jesus did any of the above? All you have are CLAIMS and MYTHS that claim he did.

Sheesh, your blind faith is just ridiculous, maybe you could have someone look at that.

[SeekingTheTruth]

And yes, alot of people thought they were the messiah until they got dead. Then everybody woke up and smelled the coffee and realized that it was just another man- which is the real reason why they killed Jesus- because they wanted to but couldn't quite argue that to heal someone on the sabbath is to violate it, and thus condemn Jesus with the easy application of Jewish law. Then they wanted to claim it was because He had lied, saying He was the son of God, in so many words- but the semantics got in the way of making that super clear for everyone. But certainly, the real motivation was to have this phony who claims to be king of the jews exposed to His many and growing number of followers... and boy, satan thought he had it in the bag.

But then-- one of the most persuasive eye-witness accounts of all time is that of the women who found the empty tomb and all of the details of the encounter and the way in which the witnesses behaved immediately afterwards and how they subsequently relayed the information: all fits in to a totally believeable historical truth-- and WHO ROLLED AWAY THE STONE?, by the way which had been sealed and secured... and there is no way possible that even one roman soldier would have fallen asleep on such an important watch, let alone all four of them who knew that to fall asleep on a roman watch for a soldier meant you die the way they did: an excellent deterrant to incompetence.

Wasn't the story of ''Jesus's Rise from the Dead'' written after his crusification. A long time after his crusification by his followers. So by them telling somebeody elses ''eye-witness'' that makes it true?

First you need to prove that the NT is true and the word of G-d. One fault in it and thats the end of it. Once you can prove that it is true, then we can believe everything written in it. Till then, its a far-fetched story which I can't believe.

[SeekingTheTruth]

Please demonstrate a single prophecy that is specific in detail so that we can tell exactly what was prophecied BEFORE THE EVENT.

Cephur it seems you use logic in your statements.
Please wait till monday when I am supposed to recieve a list of some (from the many ) prophecies.

By the way all my prophecies are taken from the Torah nothing from the NT. And if you want to buy a great book that talks about proving that G-d Created the universe and prophecies that prove the Torah buy
''Beyond A Reasonable Doubt'' by Rabbi Shmuel Waldman. It will definitely open your eyes up.

[MrWhy]

Cephur it seems you use logic in your statements.
Please wait till monday when I am supposed to recieve a list of some (from the many ) prophecies.

By the way all my prophecies are taken from the Torah nothing from the NT. And if you want to buy a great book that talks about proving that G-d Created the universe and prophecies that prove the Torah buy
''Beyond A Reasonable Doubt'' by Rabbi Shmuel Waldman. It will definitely open your eyes up.

I'm very interested prophecies. I request you post one of your favorites.

Does the book "Beyond A Reasonable Doubt" have new information or arguments? Can you post something from the book that made an impression on you?

[SeekingTheTruth]

Topper, I had a list of prophecies from the Torah and I misplaced it. I'm supposed to be getting it on Monday. If I do, I will definitely accomplish my task.