The Bible is not the word of God

[DrProctopus]

A bunch of people who believed that God was talking to them wrote down what they believed God was saying.

The more relevant or successful scriptures were kept and eventually composed into the OT.

Something similar happend after Jesus did his thing, and the NT was produced.


Nowhere in this process do I see any reason to believe that every single word in the Bible is the word of God. Why should I believe someone when they claim to speak for God?

So, the point of debate is this:

Is there actually any decent reason to believe that the Bible is 100% the word of God?

[ministerkris]

First of all... bible codes in the Torah and (which naturally implies then, that) throughout the bible as well ARE REAL: the top scientific minds in the world and experts from across the globe who set out to prove it wrong at any cost have never been successful in doing anything but ended up proving it right, for themselves. Furthermore, it is statistically IMPOSSIBLE for it to be a coincidence that these messages appear. And NO YOU CANNOT DO IT IN ANY BOOK, OR ANY BOOK for that matter- name one. You cannot because it is not there. Only God, as an author- or the concept of an all-powerful, all-knowing deity- could possibly create a work of writings and codes this incredibly complex and unique in its truth-telling capability; and its capacity to relate to WHAT IS REAL, or WHAT ACTUALLY EXISTS in the world: past, present, and future.

No one can deny that The Bible is the word of God anymore, based on the discovery of these awe-inspiring codes.

Now- think about it- when God said: "NO ONE CAN ADD ANYTHING OR TAKE ANYTHING AWAY FROM" these scriptures, or the words of these prophets... and even considering the fact that "EVERYTHING" IS ALREADY THERE, in the Torah (ie., everything you need, everything that was ever created, everything for instruction, etc.)... He did not at that time specify that there was never to be another prophet, prophecy, or continued scriptures in the future. What He meant was that nothing was to added or taken away from those words that had already been spoken up to that point-- don't change what has already been written. He didn't say that nothing more was to be written in the future. Jesus, however, (or one of His apostles in the NT- or something-) DID specify that "NO MORE NEW PROPHETS" were to come after Jesus (He would be a tough act to follow).


You can take Him down from the status of "messiah" to "prophet" and not insult my sense of what people can UNDERSTAND OR CALL REASONABLE- or based on (or in comparison to) facts of reality and history. But you cannot take Him down from the level of "prophet" to "rabbi"; because what rabbi has ever been made as famous as this and who was ever known to heal the sick, or raise the dead, or bring new teachings for the better understanding of the Jews and non-Jews of future generations of modern men to come? Just a rabbi? Just a teacher? Why, then did they kill the poor teacher?

You also can't take Him down from the cross, and you can't take me to one single place on earth where His bones or mortal remains (like the rest of the rabbis and ourselves have when we die) are to be located- or ever were known- or even rumored- to be located- BECAUSE THEY AREN'T THERE.

P.S. At the moment of death, even the Roman soldiers (the world's greatest and most accurate historians) who had mocked and killed Him said "Surely this was the son of God" about Jesus.

P.P.s. It was prophecied in our precious OT that His own people would reject Him.

[SeekingTheTruth]

They killed Jesus because he broke the Sabbath. And if you know anything
since we had the Holy Temple people are put to death for that.

You don't think that there are rabbies that have the power to heal the sick?

You just don't know about it because you've never heard it. Look up in Goole about The BAAL SHEM TOV, The LUBAVITCHER REBBE, and these great kabbalistic rabbies.

Jesus performed his miracles because he knew the 72 Letter name of G-d which gave him the power to.

[ministerkris]

Think about it. If you argue that there is a God, at all; then He must be everything he says He is- and therefore- would not lie to us. Nor would He be capable of anything less than perfection and consistency and everything you can rely on.

Plus how about the fact that EVERY SINGLE PROPHECY (thousands of them; well, at least hundreds) HAS COME TRUE SO FAR... which if the first half of the prophecies all came true; is it not reasonale to believe that the second half will as well?

bartok888 in san francisco

[SeekingTheTruth]

If Jesus is ''messiah'' then why did he die?

Who did he redeem?

Why is this world still evil?

And if you believe that hes coming back it says that once a man dies he can not be the Messiah. Thats what happened in the Jewish world approx 15 years ago. Many many people believed that the Lubbavitcher Rebbe
was the Messiah. Look him up and read the unbelievable stories about him.
Anyway, he passed away, may he rest in peace, and that ended that belief that he was messiah.

[McCulloch]

... the top scientific minds in the world and experts from across the globe who set out to prove it wrong at any cost have never been successful in doing anything but ended up proving it right, for themselves.

Would you please list some of these "top scientific minds and experts"? I don't remember reading any of this in any of the science journals. Here are some experts who are willing to put their names down to say the Bible codes are bogus:

• Institute of Mathematical Statistics
• Institute of Mathematical Statistics
• Brendan McKay
• MARK PERAKH
• Barry Simon, IBM Professor of Mathematics and Theoretical Physics at Caltech
• Various writers.

And here is some silly person who claims there are Bible Coded messages in the KJV, as if God himself supervised the translation in 1611! http://www.revelation13.net/KingJames.html

No one can deny that The Bible is the word of God anymore, based on the discovery of these awe-inspiring codes.

You'll have to do better than that!

Jesus, however, (or one of His apostles in the NT- or something-) DID specify that "NO MORE NEW PROPHETS" were to come after Jesus (He would be a tough act to follow).

Would it be too much to ask that you actually look up the passage that you claim teaches this?

You also can't take Him down from the cross, and you can't take me to one single place on earth where His bones or mortal remains (like the rest of the rabbis and ourselves have when we die) are to be located- or ever were known- or even rumored- to be located- BECAUSE THEY AREN'T THERE.

No, they are where most bones of first century people are. Decayed beyond recognition.

[Nick Hallandale]

Ryoga said:
Nick where do you want me to put that mountain? LOL

About 10 miles west of my house.

Ryoga said:
I imagine 3 or 4 thousand years ago few would argue about what the word of GOD was. 2 thousand years ago Jesus the supposed authority on the Word of God even being referred to as the Word made Flesh indicated by his teachings what the Word of God was from the OT.[/.

Since you mentioned that Jesus said that the OT is the word of God, I want to point out one of Jesus' teachings......Matthew 23:1-3 KJV
""1Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples,

2Saying The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:

3All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.""

Let me emphasize the important part of verse 2.....
""All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do""
So how come the Christians aren't observing and doing what the Jews say to do?

[Nick Hallandale]

JOER SAID:

The NT had me convinced of Jesus' teachings at 13 or 14. and I haven't left since. But I have revisited the OT and found that all of Jesus' teachings were taught repeatedly in the OT. Unfortunately most of the teachers were killed because people didn't like being told what they were doing was wrong.

You believe that the NT and its ways overrides the OT?
They why didn't G-d who gave the OT to the Jews that it was to be for all their days and that you cant ad nor subtract from it ( which then the NT shouldn't even exist). And why wouldn't the G-d let the Jews know thats He decided to change the right religions.
-Are you trying to say the whoever abides by the Torah and only the Torah is not practicing the religion correctly.
-Why would you take the apostles word over G-d's? It doesn't make sense to me.

Moses said......... Deuteronomy 4:2 KJV
Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.

Moses said a second time Deuteronomy 12:32 KJV If he said it twice you know it's really important.
What thing soever I command you, observe to do it: thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it.

It is obvious that the Christians have added and diminished from God's commands in the OT.......otherwise they would be Jews.
But here is the dilemma.....If the OT is false....could the NT possibly be true?
Obviously the NT cannot be true unless the OT is true.
So why don't Christians obey the OT commands of God?
1Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples,

2Saying The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:

3All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.

[Nick Hallandale]

Thanks for your questions. We are on the right track.

Why would the Creator of the Universe reveal Himself and His will to just a small (relatively) ethnic group?[

.

Didn't you ever read in the Bible that God was going to make Israel a nation of Kings and Priests?
Kings lead the people and Priests teach the people about God.

1But in the last days it shall come to pass, that the mountain of the house of the LORD shall be established in the top of the mountains, and it shall be exalted above the hills; and people shall flow unto it.

2And many nations shall come, and say, Come, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, and to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for the law shall go forth of Zion, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.

3And he shall judge among many people, and rebuke strong nations afar off; and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up a sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.

4But they shall sit every man under his vine and under his fig tree; and none shall make them afraid: for the mouth of the LORD of hosts hath spoken it.

5For all people will walk every one in the name of his god, and we will walk in the name of the LORD our God for ever and ever.Micah 4:1-5KJV

[SeekingTheTruth]

NICK wrote:

Didn't you ever read in the Bible that God was going to make Israel a nation of Kings and Priests?
Kings lead the people and Priests teach the people about God.

1But in the last days it shall come to pass, that the mountain of the house of the LORD shall be established in the top of the mountains, and it shall be exalted above the hills; and people shall flow unto it.

2And many nations shall come, and say, Come, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, and to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for the law shall go forth of Zion, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.

3And he shall judge among many people, and rebuke strong nations afar off; and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up a sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.

4But they shall sit every man under his vine and under his fig tree; and none shall make them afraid: for the mouth of the LORD of hosts hath spoken it.

5For all people will walk every one in the name of his god, and we will walk in the name of the LORD our God for ever and ever.Micah 4:1-5

He is right one the money. This is a prophecy too and it is speaking about the Final Redemption. May it come soon.

[Nick Hallandale]

Plus how about the fact that EVERY SINGLE PROPHECY (thousands of them; well, at least hundreds) HAS COME TRUE SO FAR... which if the first half of the prophecies all came true; is it not reasonale to believe that the second half will as well?
bartok888 in san francisco

OK Minister Kris....I'm sure that at the very least, you think that Jesus was a great prophet.
Show me some of the prophecies of Jesus that have come true.