The End Times Are Very Near

[axeplayer]

There is a lot of evidence supporting the idea that the end times and the rapture are very near to happening. for example, the United Nations fulfill the prophesy that very near to the end times, the world will be united as one, and there will be peace on the earth(even though we're a long way from peace). also, barcodes, credit cards etc. are an early warning to the mark of the beast being used to pay for all of our expenses. In college station, Texas, there are stores where you can pay for your groceries, appliances, etc., with your thumbprint. So what does everyone else think? Are the end times and Judgement Day near?

[Todd]

Jesus says in the Bible "I will come as a thief in the night" and he sticks to his word. Nobody will know when he comes, although it would be exciting to know, only God himself knows.

I'm just taking a wild guess on when I think (or more or less hope) that Jesus will come back. I think the earliest time would be in about 10 years, the latest around 50. I'm just praying that I'll still be alive when he comes back.

[bernee51]

Jesus says in the Bible "I will come as a thief in the night" and he sticks to his word. Nobody will know when he comes, although it would be exciting to know, only God himself knows.

How do YOU know that he will come?

I'm just taking a wild guess on when I think (or more or less hope) that Jesus will come back. I think the earliest time would be in about 10 years, the latest around 50. I'm just praying that I'll still be alive when he comes back.

On what do you base this guesstimation of the timeframe? Why would you wish to be alive at the time? What difference would it make?

[Corvus]

In all likelihood, the Book of Revelation is bit of wishful thinking for the demise of the Roman empire.

I don't see how one's choice of payment method at the supermarket checkout relates to the apocalypse. There is nothing in Revelation that suggests that, not that I remember.

Rev 13:16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:


Rev 13:17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

Alternatively to claiming this describes microchips and credit cards, the historical-critical interpretation claims that the passage simply refers to the image of the emperor on the coins of the realm. Literally speaking, no such mark appears on hand or forehead, but then, neither do the microchips or credit cards. If we are to take the historical-critcal interpretation as true, the following passage does make a lot more sense however:

Rev 13:18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number [is] Six hundred threescore [and] six.

I will quote from Wikipedia:

The beast is identified by the number 666 in the text (Rev 13:18). This is very likely an instance of gematria, an early form of Jewish mysticism. Its object is to conceal a name by substituting for it a cipher of equal numerical value to the letters composing it. When the name "Nero Caesar" is spelled with Hebrew letters as נרון קסר (NRWN QSR -- Hebrew is written without vowels.) Each letter has a corresponding numerical value. N=50, R=200, W=6 N=50, Q=100, S=60, R=200, resulting in the sum of 666.

Some Greek manuscripts of Revelation have a different number. Here the number is not 666, but 616. If Nero is alternatively spelled as NRW instead of NRWN you get 616; NRWN minus N(=50).

And since I could not express it half as clearly in my own words:

Seven heads of the beast
The seven heads of the beast are seven Roman emperors. Five of them are said to be fallen. They are Augustus, Tiberius, Caligula, Claudius, and Nero. The year of Nero's death is 68. The text goes on to say "One is", namely Vespasian, 70-79. He is the sixth emperor. The seventh "is not yet come. But when he comes his reign will be short". Titus is meant, who reigned but two years (79-81). The eighth emperor is Domitian (81-96); He is identified with the beast. He is described as the one that "was and is not and shall come up out of the bottomless pit" (xvii, 8). In verse 11 it is added: "And the beast which was and is not: the same also is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into destruction".

All this sounds like oracular language. But the clue to its solution is furnished by a popular belief largely spread at the time. The death of Nero had been witnessed by few. Chiefly in the East a notion had taken hold of the mind of the people that Nero was still alive. Gentiles, Jews, and Christians were under the illusion that he was hiding himself, and as was commonly thought, he had gone over to the Parthians, the most troublesome foes of the empire. From there they expected him to return at the head of a mighty army to avenge himself on his enemies. The existence of a belief in a Nero redivivus is attested by Tacitus and Dio Chrysostom.

Many contemporaries of the author of this book believed Nero to be alive and expected his return. The author either shared their belief or utilized it for his own purpose. Nero had made a name for himself by his cruelty and licentiousness. The Christians in particular had reason to dread him. Under him the first persecution took place. The second occurred under Domitian. But unlike the previous one, it was not confined to Italy, but spread throughout the provinces. Many Christians were put to death, many were banished (Eusebius, Hist. Eccl., III, 17-19). In this way the Book of Revelation seems to regard Domitian as a second Nero, "Nero redivivus". Hence it describes him as "the one that was, that is not, and that is to return". Hence also he counts him as the eighth and at the same time makes him one of the preceding seven, the fifth, Nero.

Note that pagan authors called Domitian a second Nero (calvus Nero, Juvenal. IV, 38). The popular belief concerning Nero's death and return seems to be referred to also in the passage (xiii, 3): "And I saw one of its heads as it were slain to death: and its death's wound was healed".

All found at the Wikipedia Book of Revelation article

[Bent]

Hi all, just came across this forum while surfing and thought I'd join up and throw my 2 cents in.

I've been thinking about the whole Revelations / End times thing lately. I do not believe a word of it myself, I am an atheist. My main concern is that it could become a self-fulfilling prophecy, simply because it's believed by a lot of people. If I remember correctly, the Armageddon is supposed to take place in what is currently Israel, and it's the battle to end them all. I wonder if there may be people in positions of power (and in control of rather nasty, destructive weaponry) who have a genuine belief in it. If they believed it strongly enough, could this influence decisions they make and actions they take? Could the simple action of preparing for it actually cause it to take place?

Just a thought. Hopefully I'm wrong!

[juliod]

If they believed it strongly enough, could this influence decisions they make and actions they take?

Yes, this is a real danger at the current time.

I was reading an article about certain right-wing churches that have specific beliefs about the End of the World. The danger is that they seem to have the ear of the current administration.

Thier view of the future is particularly dangerous. They think that soon Israel will build a new Temple, then there will be a general war in the middle east where Israel will deploy nuclear weapons. The danger is this: They want this war to come about.

Their theology states that once Israel unleashes nuclear wepons then Jesus will come back, take all the christians to heaven, and destroy the world. They expect to sit at the right hand of Jesus in paradise. But until there is a major war in the middle-east they can't sit next to Jesus. Peace in the middle-east is, to them, unthinkable.

DanZ

[youngborean]

I was reading an article about certain right-wing churches that have specific beliefs about the End of the World. The danger is that they seem to have the ear of the current administration.

Thier view of the future is particularly dangerous. They think that soon Israel will build a new Temple, then there will be a general war in the middle east where Israel will deploy nuclear weapons. The danger is this: They want this war to come about.

Their theology states that once Israel unleashes nuclear wepons then Jesus will come back, take all the christians to heaven, and destroy the world. They expect to sit at the right hand of Jesus in paradise. But until there is a major war in the middle-east they can't sit next to Jesus. Peace in the middle-east is, to them, unthinkable.

You may have read this in an article but this theological stance has no basis in the Bible. Support for Israel will only prelong the end Times since the last days are defined by the whole world coming together to war against Israel. To associate this view with Christianity it might be better to cite scripture that supports it rather than retell what you remember off the top of your head.

[juliod]

You may have read this in an article but this theological stance has no basis in the Bible.

That hardly matters. What matters is that these people think it is based on the bible.

To associate this view with Christianity it might be better to cite scripture that supports it rather than retell what you remember off the top of your head.

My memory is infallible.

Here is an article that refers to this form of christianity. It is not a minor faction.

http://truthout.org/docs_2005/013105F.shtml

DanZ

[youngborean]

This is the most ridiculous article. It is saying that because people believe in revelation it means this or that about politics without any evidence from the book itself. What substantiates the assumption you and the author of this article are making? This is the real problem with the world. That people make assumptions about other people's belief that are based on absolutely no knowledge. To cite a percentage of people that believe in the eventual fufillment of revelation is hardly evidence that their behavior is bringing it about.

That hardly matters. What matters is that these people think it is based on the bible.

Perhaps you could explain exactly what people think and how that relates specifically to Scripture, otherwise you be better served to not make assumptions based solely on feelings. You seem to be doing the same thing you accuse these "radical" christians of doing, making decisions based solely on emotion.

[juliod]

This is the most ridiculous article. It is saying that because people believe in revelation it means this or that about politics without any evidence from the book itself. What substantiates the assumption you and the author of this article are making?

Could you explain why you are angry with me and/or Bill Moyers for pointing out the existance of these people?

This thread was started by someone who believes that the world is about to end. There are quite a number of people on all these theology discussion forums that agree. Here are a couple of additional links:

http://www.raptureready.com/rap2.html

http://www.commondreams.org/views05/0211-22.htm

http://www.apostolic.net/biblicalstudies/post/

http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2003/112/43.0.html

So, what is you problem? Are you angry with me for exposing these people? Are you embarassed by them? Or do you think this should be hidden?

DanZ

[youngborean]

I am dissapointed that you are upholding a principle you seem to be against. You are associating a theology of Christianity with people's actions without any evidence. For instance, your article states:

These true believers subscribe to a fantastical theology concocted in the 19th century by a couple of immigrant preachers who took disparate passages from the Bible and wove them into a narrative that has captivated the imagination of millions of Americans. Its outline is rather simple, if bizarre: Once Israel has occupied the rest of its "bibli-cal lands," legions of the Antichrist will attack it, triggering a final showdown in the valley of Armageddon. As the Jews who have not been converted are burned, the messiah will return for the rapture. True believers will be lifted out of their clothes and transported to heaven, where, seated next to the right hand of God, they will watch their political and religious opponents suffer plagues of boils, sores, locusts and frogs during the several years of tribulation that follow.

How is this statement substantiated? Does it apply for all people who believe in revelation to be true. It is highly reductionist and makes exegetical statements without any evidence. Belief in Revelation hardly equals the actions you claimed earlier (like a desire for Israeli vigilante nuclear war), especially when the beliefs themselves as cited above have no apparent basis in scripture. Moyer is not only asserting that people who believe in the end of the world exist. He is homogenizing their theology without any evidence. He is treating them as the other without anything concrete to substantiate their actions are a result of their theology. All of these assumptions are symptomatic of an individual who criticises something that they really don't know anything about. Before the paragraph I quoted he stated specifically that:

One-third of the American electorate, if a recent Gallup Poll is accurate, believes the Bible is literally true. This past November, several million good and decent citizens went to the polls believing in what is known as the "rapture index."

He uses this statistical measure to say that millions of voters believe in the teach of an "immigrant preacher". This article is trash and it is founded on ignorance. I believe that I feel the same way about ignorance that you feel about religion.

To me, religon is synonymous with hatred, bigotry, violence, racism, sexism, xenophobia, oppression, sexual perversion, and the root cause of an untold universe of human suffering.

A real dialogue could happen about the dangers of certain interpretations of the Book of Revelations if Moyer would actually do it. Instead, in his ignorance he assumes that his hatred of Christianity can look at all Christians a homogeneous. Its scary to me and had to be addressed.