The Trinity is illogical and irrational.
If The Son = God and The Father = God and the Spirit = God then The Son = The Father = The Spirit.
Which obviously is not the case since all three interact with each other as separate entities and did different things in the biblical stories.
The Son, The Father and The Spirit can form God together but not each be totally God.
1+1+1 = 3 and not 1.
1/3 + 1/3 + 1/3 equals to 1 of course. But that's not what the Christian dogma says.
So is there anyone in here claiming that the Trinity can be explained logically and rationally?
The Trinity is illogical and irrational.
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Re: The Trinity is illogical and irrational.
Post #201[Replying to marco]
"To be fair - though I disagree with the image and likeness stuff - no one is claiming we're exact replicas otherwise I'd be writing this without using my fingers. I think the Trinity notion is enough impossibility without introducing extra items of impossibility not quite claimed."
Certainly not exactly.
Image and likeness comes down by degrees. There are spheres/atmospheres (spiritual)
by which the divine influx is regulated. By comparison we have our sun with its atmospheres which regulate its heat and light (correspondences).
'As in heaven so upon the earth' or as NewAgers say, as above so bellow.
"To be fair - though I disagree with the image and likeness stuff - no one is claiming we're exact replicas otherwise I'd be writing this without using my fingers. I think the Trinity notion is enough impossibility without introducing extra items of impossibility not quite claimed."
Certainly not exactly.
Image and likeness comes down by degrees. There are spheres/atmospheres (spiritual)
by which the divine influx is regulated. By comparison we have our sun with its atmospheres which regulate its heat and light (correspondences).
'As in heaven so upon the earth' or as NewAgers say, as above so bellow.
Re: The Trinity is illogical and irrational.
Post #202Monta wrote: [Replying to marco]
"To be fair - though I disagree with the image and likeness stuff - no one is claiming we're exact replicas otherwise I'd be writing this without using my fingers. I think the Trinity notion is enough impossibility without introducing extra items of impossibility not quite claimed."
Certainly not exactly.
Image and likeness comes down by degrees. There are spheres/atmospheres (spiritual) by which the divine influx is regulated. By comparison we have our sun with its atmospheres which regulate its heat and light (correspondences).
'As in heaven so upon the earth' or as NewAgers say, as above so bellow.
Well this is "certainly not exactly" the easiest thing to follow. I assume you are not cruelly playing with my ineffective brain here.
I am not a student of God's anatomy and the divine influx sounds absorbing but pretty impenetrable, for me anyway. If this is an attempt to match the mystery of the Trinity with another one you have succeeded.
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Willum
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Re: The Trinity is illogical and irrational.
Post #203[Replying to marco]
Perhaps the trinity is:
Mind - Body - Soul.
Piggy-backing off the idea we we're created in his image. God has three orthogonal components, we have three analogous components.
God the mind.
The Holy Spirit the soul.
Jesus the body.
Perhaps the trinity is:
Mind - Body - Soul.
Piggy-backing off the idea we we're created in his image. God has three orthogonal components, we have three analogous components.
God the mind.
The Holy Spirit the soul.
Jesus the body.
I will never understand how someone who claims to know the ultimate truth, of God, believes they deserve respect, when they cannot distinguish it from a fairy-tale.
You know, science and logic are hard: Religion and fairy tales might be more your speed.
To continue to argue for the Hebrew invention of God is actually an insult to the very concept of a God. - Divine Insight
You know, science and logic are hard: Religion and fairy tales might be more your speed.
To continue to argue for the Hebrew invention of God is actually an insult to the very concept of a God. - Divine Insight
Re: The Trinity is illogical and irrational.
Post #204Hi Willum. The problem with the three orthogonal components making up the body is that when you remove the mind, say, you don't have a whole body. The mind is not the entire body. Each person of the Trinity is reckoned to be God.Willum wrote: [Replying to marco]
Perhaps the trinity is:
Mind - Body - Soul.
Piggy-backing off the idea we we're created in his image. God has three orthogonal components, we have three analogous components.
God the mind.
The Holy Spirit the soul.
Jesus the body.
Incidentally I didn't suggest mind, body and soul for an analogy of the Trinity.
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Willum
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Re: The Trinity is illogical and irrational.
Post #205[Replying to post 204 by marco]
Good, point, but obviously we are not perfect copies, and indeed have waste and reproductive organs God doesn't need.
So in as much as reality must fail, I think that analogy can be reasonably allowed to fail. Neither are we immortal, perfect, and so on, and our "Mind-Body-Soul," should be expected to analogous failings.
Good, point, but obviously we are not perfect copies, and indeed have waste and reproductive organs God doesn't need.
So in as much as reality must fail, I think that analogy can be reasonably allowed to fail. Neither are we immortal, perfect, and so on, and our "Mind-Body-Soul," should be expected to analogous failings.
I will never understand how someone who claims to know the ultimate truth, of God, believes they deserve respect, when they cannot distinguish it from a fairy-tale.
You know, science and logic are hard: Religion and fairy tales might be more your speed.
To continue to argue for the Hebrew invention of God is actually an insult to the very concept of a God. - Divine Insight
You know, science and logic are hard: Religion and fairy tales might be more your speed.
To continue to argue for the Hebrew invention of God is actually an insult to the very concept of a God. - Divine Insight
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ttruscott
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Re: The Trinity is illogical and irrational.
Post #206Opinion noted and rejected for being an illogical emotional knee jerk. Being in HIS image does not give us HIS divine attributes unless you want to prove this flight of fancy.Monta wrote: [Replying to post 198 by ttruscott]
"There are three divine people who have a divine unity as well as their divine individuality and that Unity has the name of YHWH."
So, if we are image and likeness we should also have three people with their individuality.
I think its called split personality.
PCE Theology as I see it...
We had an existence with a free will in Sheol before the creation of the physical universe. Here we chose to be able to become holy or to be eternally evil in YHWH's sight. Then the physical universe was created and all sinners were sent to earth.
This theology debunks the need to base Christianity upon the blasphemy of creating us in Adam's sin.
We had an existence with a free will in Sheol before the creation of the physical universe. Here we chose to be able to become holy or to be eternally evil in YHWH's sight. Then the physical universe was created and all sinners were sent to earth.
This theology debunks the need to base Christianity upon the blasphemy of creating us in Adam's sin.
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ttruscott
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Re: The Trinity is illogical and irrational.
Post #207[quote="Willum"]
[Replying to marco]
Perhaps the trinity is:
Mind - Body - Soul..../quote]
The Trinty is three persons in one Unity, not three parts of one person...pretty tough stuff.
[Replying to marco]
Perhaps the trinity is:
Mind - Body - Soul..../quote]
The Trinty is three persons in one Unity, not three parts of one person...pretty tough stuff.
PCE Theology as I see it...
We had an existence with a free will in Sheol before the creation of the physical universe. Here we chose to be able to become holy or to be eternally evil in YHWH's sight. Then the physical universe was created and all sinners were sent to earth.
This theology debunks the need to base Christianity upon the blasphemy of creating us in Adam's sin.
We had an existence with a free will in Sheol before the creation of the physical universe. Here we chose to be able to become holy or to be eternally evil in YHWH's sight. Then the physical universe was created and all sinners were sent to earth.
This theology debunks the need to base Christianity upon the blasphemy of creating us in Adam's sin.
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Willum
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Re: The Trinity is illogical and irrational.
Post #208[Replying to post 207 by ttruscott]
Thank you for chiming in with your one-liner.
It is unhelpful, and unsubstantiated.
Put another way, talk is cheap, show me.
My explanation has the advantage of working...
Thank you for chiming in with your one-liner.
It is unhelpful, and unsubstantiated.
Put another way, talk is cheap, show me.
My explanation has the advantage of working...
I will never understand how someone who claims to know the ultimate truth, of God, believes they deserve respect, when they cannot distinguish it from a fairy-tale.
You know, science and logic are hard: Religion and fairy tales might be more your speed.
To continue to argue for the Hebrew invention of God is actually an insult to the very concept of a God. - Divine Insight
You know, science and logic are hard: Religion and fairy tales might be more your speed.
To continue to argue for the Hebrew invention of God is actually an insult to the very concept of a God. - Divine Insight
Re: The Trinity is illogical and irrational.
Post #209ttruscott wrote:Back to split personality. Three headed monster ( no disrespect to God but this is exactly how it is portraid).Willum wrote: [Replying to marco]
Perhaps the trinity is:
Mind - Body - Soul..../quote]
The Trinty is three persons in one Unity, not three parts of one person...pretty tough stuff.
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liamconnor
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Re: The Trinity is illogical and irrational.
Post #210Can we not exercise some humility? Do you really think that Plato, Plotinus, Augustine, Boethius, Aquinas etc. etc. etc. etc. could be debunked by YOU on some random www. forum? That these guys had never studied "arithmetic"...?Celsus wrote: The Trinity is illogical and irrational.
If The Son = God and The Father = God and the Spirit = God then The Son = The Father = The Spirit.
Which obviously is not the case since all three interact with each other as separate entities and did different things in the biblical stories.
The Son, The Father and The Spirit can form God together but not each be totally God.
1+1+1 = 3 and not 1.
1/3 + 1/3 + 1/3 equals to 1 of course. But that's not what the Christian dogma says.
So is there anyone in here claiming that the Trinity can be explained logically and rationally?
