The Trinity is illogical and irrational.

Celsus · Post by **Celsus** » Sun Jul 19, 2009 7:59 am

The Trinity is illogical and irrational.

If The Son = God and The Father = God and the Spirit = God then The Son = The Father = The Spirit.

Which obviously is not the case since all three interact with each other as separate entities and did different things in the biblical stories.

The Son, The Father and The Spirit can form God together but not each be totally God.

1+1+1 = 3 and not 1.

1/3 + 1/3 + 1/3 equals to 1 of course. But that's not what the Christian dogma says.

So is there anyone in here claiming that the Trinity can be explained logically and rationally?

marco · Post by **marco** » Thu Apr 28, 2016 5:55 pm

Blastcat wrote: [Replying to post 179 by marco]

marco wrote:
pshun2404 wrote: Paul as a father is still wholly Paul
Paul as a son is still wholly Paul
Paul as a spirit is still wholly Paul

This ain't rocket science...

Well it certainly isn't rocket science! The Trinity is a MYSTERY; it defies the human brain to define it, pshun.

The Father, Son and Holy Spirit are THREE separate persons. Distinct. Not the same.

Yes, father, son and spirit are each Paul and make up Paul. But they are NOT distinct. When the father goes to buy a paper the son doesn't stay at home.
When the Holy Spirit visits planet earth, God the Father stays in bed.

Father, son and spirit are just different names for the same person, Paul. If you think that Holy Spirit, Father and Jesus are just different names for the one God you are misunderstanding Trinity. Jesus, you will remember, prayed to the Father and said he'd send the Holy Spirit (not himself or the Father). On my fingers that makes three persons.
Some people think that 1+1+1=1, but most don't.

The idea of Trinity isn't rational. It's IRRATIONAL.

And we know where it all began and why. The Bible has too many contradictions, so people like to resolve them away by irrational decree. End of problem.

When it comes to how the Bible describes God, 1+1+1=1, end of story. Because we all know that 1=3, anyway.

I assume that this information is not for my attention, Blastcat. My comments were explanatory notes for pshun regarding the way the Trinity is defined by those as define it.

pshun2404 · Post by **pshun2404** » Thu Apr 28, 2016 7:03 pm

By those who define it? You better go back and review how the people who defined it explained it...do a search on hypostasis and persona because these are the words they used

arian · Post by **arian** » Fri Apr 29, 2016 1:32 am

Texan Christian wrote: 3 minds, 1 spiritual body. The trinity is spirit.

The son Jesus was human no? or was he spirit?
If the trinity is spirit, who is the Spirit person in the trinity? If it's God, then why the trinity?

3 minds means 3 persons, 3 individuals, yet the Bible clearly states that "God is One" as in we have but One God, not three persons making up God. The trinity doctrine takes God and divides Him up into many, of at least three separate minds, persons, yet God has commanded us to be of One Mind with Him, to have God in us as he is one with His only begotten Son, so we too can be called Children of God.

The Bible commands many to be of One Mind, and the Trinity splits even God into many minds. Don't forget to pray to Mary too, the Mother of these three gods, cause they listen to her.

God is Spirit, and no one has seen God because He is Spirit, like our mind is spirit.
God is also Holy, now if we put those two together, God is "Holy Spirit". But lo and behold there is this "person" outside or besides God who is represented in the middle of the Triangle, yet God says: "I am God, and there is no other gods besides me".

Well yeah, .. since another Infinite can't be placed outside of Infinite, One Infinite is all we need, all that can be or the first is not an Infinite.

Now the Trinity Doctrine, which was created by the Constantine Catholic Church clearly states that their three persons make up an "idea" god Please refer to the "Triangle" here

http://catholic-resources.org/Bible/Trinity.htm

The illuminati triangle with the eye in the upper middle is actually what this is really meant to represent, 3 deified individual persons that make up the "All-seeing Eye" Horus, or any of the tens of thousands of gods studied in theology, and this last Pope is finally bringing this to peoples attention. Like that God couldn't create the universe, so He let Mother nature and father Time do it since they make the right selections during evolution.

Here is another version of the Trinity-gods:

1. Father (as in the Holiest of fathers the Pope)
2. The Son (as in the sun-god Lucifer)
3. Spirit (this can be any carved/created god of any religion, the spirit/idea of that god is what's represented here)

Here, God is just an idea that ANY religion uses to bend the knees of their goats/followers, worshippers.
The Trinity in most of the Christian religions can be used as god, or any other ideas like Buddha in Buddhism, Mormo in Mormonism, Allah in Islam, Sabbath in the Seventh Day Adv., Yahweh in the JW's religion, and so on. You'll know the god of each religion by what they worship. In the US, you see god on money, it is this god that we trust.

But for us Believers, there is only One true, the only Possible One, the Infinite, Eternal Creative Mind/Spirit "I Am" who IS God, and Him we put our faith in from evidence with substance. Not blindly follow doctrines of men and their created versions of gods and goddesses.

God, the Only Possible ONE bless you.

marco · Post by **marco** » Fri Apr 29, 2016 4:36 am

pshun2404 wrote: By those who define it? You better go back and review how the people who defined it explained it...do a search on hypostasis and persona because these are the words they used

I have no problem with the definition as taken from the Athanasian Creed. You seem to misunderstand, for the example you gave to explain the Trinity is flawed.

In passing, I said "those as define it" not "those who define it." There is a subtle difference.

Bust Nak · Post by **Bust Nak** » Fri Apr 29, 2016 5:06 am

Can someone who has looked into it answer my earlier question - Why is it so important that God is not made up of three parts? A committee from he union of Jesus, the Father and Spirit seems to cover all the important *issues and logical to boot.

* The issues being 1) there has to be one and only one God, 2) the Father, Jesus and Spirit are different beings. 3) Together they are God.

Monta · Post by **Monta** » Fri Apr 29, 2016 7:05 am

[Replying to post 185 by Bust Nak]

God can not be God unless he is infinite (as to space)
and eternal (as to time).
As having three infinities is illogical and three eternities also illogical,
that means that our understanding is lacking if we think of three.

What we have is a Trinity of attributes: Father the Divine Love; Son the Divine Truth; Holy Spirit the Divine Proceeding from the Son from the Father.

This trinity is also reflected in our nature.

Bust Nak · Post by **Bust Nak** » Fri Apr 29, 2016 9:05 am

Monta wrote: God can not be God unless he is infinite (as to space)
and eternal (as to time).
As having three infinities is illogical and three eternities also illogical,
that means that our understanding is lacking if we think of three.

Why can't 3 individuals all be infinite and eternal? That's what Trinitians are saying anyway when they say Jesus is God infinite and eternal, the Father is God infinite and eternal and the Holy Spirit is God infinite and eternal. If an entity has parts then it follows the parts are as old as the entity itself, assuming they are not late additions.

What we have is a Trinity of attributes: Father the Divine Love; Son the Divine Truth; Holy Spirit the Divine Proceeding from the Son from the Father.

This trinity is also reflected in our nature.

Okay but that doesn't explain why it can't be three parts. In fact I think that is closer to the God has three parts nature.

Monta · Post by **Monta** » Fri Apr 29, 2016 11:41 am

[Replying to post 187 by Bust Nak]

Are you three parts?
Which part is speaking to us here?

marco · Post by **marco** » Fri Apr 29, 2016 12:59 pm

Monta wrote: [Replying to post 185 by Bust Nak]

God can not be God unless he is infinite (as to space)
and eternal (as to time).
As having three infinities is illogical and three eternities also illogical,
that means that our understanding is lacking if we think of three.

What we have is a Trinity of attributes: Father the Divine Love; Son the Divine Truth; Holy Spirit the Divine Proceeding from the Son from the Father.

This trinity is also reflected in our nature.

I would like to hear how you prove "three infinities" is illogical.

Between 1 and 2 there is an infinity of fractions: 1.1,1.11, 1.111, 1.1111... and between
2 and 3 there is an infinity of fractions: 2.1, 2.11, 2.111, 2.1111... and between 3 and 4 there is an infinity of fractions: 3.1, 3.11, 3.111, 3.1111...
This logically gives three infinities.

YOU may give the Trinity three attributes but the Trinity is formally defined not as possessing three attributes (it will obviously have many attributes, not just the ones you've come up with) but as being THREE distinct persons, each person being God.
The problem is that this logically means three gods, but the Trinity is defined as being one God, with three distinct persons. Since this defies reason, it is regarded as a mystery and no more is said.

The Trinity isn't reflected in our nature, at least not in mine, for we aren't gods. We have many attributes and summing them would come to more than three, not that this is of any importance.

tfvespasianus · Post by **tfvespasianus** » Fri Apr 29, 2016 1:22 pm

marco wrote:
This logically gives three infinities.

In a sense, it would depend upon how one wants to parse the question, but I would come down on the side that there are multiple â€˜infinitiesâ€™ and some are larger than others (itâ€™s true!).

Yet, this is contrasting mathematical sets (aleph numbers) with the colloquial understanding of â€˜infinityâ€™.

take care,
TFV