The Trinity is illogical and irrational.

Celsus · Post by **Celsus** » Sun Jul 19, 2009 7:59 am

The Trinity is illogical and irrational.

If The Son = God and The Father = God and the Spirit = God then The Son = The Father = The Spirit.

Which obviously is not the case since all three interact with each other as separate entities and did different things in the biblical stories.

The Son, The Father and The Spirit can form God together but not each be totally God.

1+1+1 = 3 and not 1.

1/3 + 1/3 + 1/3 equals to 1 of course. But that's not what the Christian dogma says.

So is there anyone in here claiming that the Trinity can be explained logically and rationally?

marco · Post by **marco** » Thu Apr 28, 2016 5:33 am

Willum wrote: The trinity, which I prefer to think of as unity, 1 x 1 x 1 = 1 has non-pagan origins. Or like looking at a three sided gem. It appears differently, depending on perspective/aspect. For fiction, I don't know why the concept is so difficult to grasp.

Hi Willum, I like the 1x1x1 = 1 idea. There is something clever in taking a unit, multiplying it, and still retaining a single unit. For those who think we are being unnecessarily restrictive in appointing three persons, we could accommodate 4 by this method 1x1x1x1 = 1. I like it.

I'm not sure of your three sided gem, though, for one side of the gem isn't the entire gem, a requirement for the Christian Trinity. Nor does the Trinity depend on "perspective" - each facet is a god no matter how you view it. Go well.

Bust Nak · Post by **Bust Nak** » Thu Apr 28, 2016 8:18 am

OpenYourEyes wrote: It's actually not that hard. There's 3 beings but one identity. Just think of multiple personality people - a more coherent form of it, of course.

Texan Christian wrote: The trinity is the belief that the father, son, and holy spirit are the same being, in 3 different spirits so to speak. a rather bad anology I personally use would be something of three minds in one body, something like that (sorry for the bad analogy)

That would have been easy to understand, if only Trinitians do not flat out say it's heretical to treat God as one committee of three beings. Why is that such a sticking point? One God with three parts would have been logical and so easy to understand. Why is it so important to insist each personality is the whole God and not one third of God?

pshun2404 · Post by **pshun2404** » Thu Apr 28, 2016 9:12 am

Paul as a father is still wholly Paul
Paul as a son is still wholly Paul
Paul as a spirit is still wholly Paul

This ain't rocket science...

Bust Nak · Post by **Bust Nak** » Thu Apr 28, 2016 10:00 am

[Replying to post 173 by pshun2404]

Paul as a father is still wholly Paul the son, Paul the son is still wholly Paul the spirit, Paul the spirit is still Paul the father. Of course this isn't rocket science, it's logical. The same cannot be said for the Trinity.

Zzyzx · Post by **Zzyzx** » Thu Apr 28, 2016 10:23 am

.

pshun2404 wrote: Paul as a father is still wholly Paul
Paul as a son is still wholly Paul
Paul as a spirit is still wholly Paul

Is "Paul the son" the son of "Paul the father"?

pshun2404 wrote: This ain't rocket science...

On THAT we agree.

If scientists calculated 1+1+1=1 rockets wouldn't get off the ground.

Texan Christian · Post by **Texan Christian** » Thu Apr 28, 2016 10:28 am

3 minds, 1 spiritual body. The trinity is spirit.

Blastcat · Post by **Blastcat** » Thu Apr 28, 2016 10:37 am

Texan Christian wrote: 3 minds, 1 spiritual body. The trinity is spirit.

The problem with THAT is.. it makes no SENSE.

You might as well try to convince rational people that 1+1=1

MAYBE you can convince yourself or irrational people of that..
Good luck.

pshun2404 · Post by **pshun2404** » Thu Apr 28, 2016 1:10 pm

[Replying to Zzyzx]

No and neither is YHVH, the Son, descendent from YHVH, the Father, after the biological model of procreation....YHVH the Father did not pre-exist YHVH the Son. YHVH is eternally both! Our nature reflects His but is not equal to His. YHVH IS the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit and we are a father, a son, and a spirit...one in essence and nature yet three in persona.

We can only understand to the degree He reveals Himself to or in us. Even the ancient concept linguistically labelled "the Memra" is but a way we can begin to wrap our mind around it. But while in this flesh we cannot be in the presence of His essence for we would be consumed (just like if we were suddenly within the essence of the Sun but that consumption would have purely physical causes). The "Mystery" is not something to be solved, it is something to be entered into....

marco · Post by **marco** » Thu Apr 28, 2016 3:52 pm

pshun2404 wrote: Paul as a father is still wholly Paul
Paul as a son is still wholly Paul
Paul as a spirit is still wholly Paul

This ain't rocket science...

Well it certainly isn't rocket science! The Trinity is a MYSTERY; it defies the human brain to define it, pshun.

The Father, Son and Holy Spirit are THREE separate persons. Distinct. Not the same.

Yes, father, son and spirit are each Paul and make up Paul. But they are NOT distinct. When the father goes to buy a paper the son doesn't stay at home.
When the Holy Spirit visits planet earth, God the Father stays in bed.

Father, son and spirit are just different names for the same person, Paul. If you think that Holy Spirit, Father and Jesus are just different names for the one God you are misunderstanding Trinity. Jesus, you will remember, prayed to the Father and said he'd send the Holy Spirit (not himself or the Father). On my fingers that makes three persons.

Blastcat · Post by **Blastcat** » Thu Apr 28, 2016 3:57 pm

[Replying to post 179 by marco]

marco wrote:
pshun2404 wrote: Paul as a father is still wholly Paul
Paul as a son is still wholly Paul
Paul as a spirit is still wholly Paul

This ain't rocket science...

Well it certainly isn't rocket science! The Trinity is a MYSTERY; it defies the human brain to define it, pshun.

The Father, Son and Holy Spirit are THREE separate persons. Distinct. Not the same.

Yes, father, son and spirit are each Paul and make up Paul. But they are NOT distinct. When the father goes to buy a paper the son doesn't stay at home.
When the Holy Spirit visits planet earth, God the Father stays in bed.

Father, son and spirit are just different names for the same person, Paul. If you think that Holy Spirit, Father and Jesus are just different names for the one God you are misunderstanding Trinity. Jesus, you will remember, prayed to the Father and said he'd send the Holy Spirit (not himself or the Father). On my fingers that makes three persons.

Some people think that 1+1+1=1, but most don't.

The idea of Trinity isn't rational. It's IRRATIONAL.

And we know where it all began and why. The Bible has too many contradictions, so people like to resolve them away by irrational decree. End of problem.

When it comes to how the Bible describes God, 1+1+1=1, end of story. Because we all know that 1=3, anyway.

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The Trinity is illogical and irrational.

The Trinity is illogical and irrational.

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