Grace (and/or) Belief/Faith (and/or) Works?

[POI]

Seems there exists an unresolved topic amongst Christians... Seems as though the way to salvation is not unified among the many in which I engage. I'd wager they all have a case to support their position(s).?.?

For debate: How does one get to Heaven? What is God's criteria for His selection process? Is it by grace alone, belief/faith alone, works alone; or it is a combination of the three? Or is it maybe other? Please, not only present your case, but please also explain why the other asserted methods are incorrect.

[1213]

IF the 'law' means that Righteousness (morals) can be done by anyone, aside the hint that it is 'natural' (innate or instinct, evolved and taught) and thus religion and Godfaith is not needed to be Righteous.

Again, faith is the result of one being righteous. If person is righteous, he will be faithful to God. And if one is faithful to God, he does God's will, which means for example that he doesn't murder, lie or steal.

[POI]

my answer is no.

Hmm?

Romans 10:9-10
Because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved.

Mark 16:15-16
And he said to them, “Go into all the world and proclaim the gospel to the whole creation. Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.

John 3:16-18
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.

Hebrews 11:6
And without faith it is impossible to please him, for whoever would draw near to God must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who seek him.

***************************************

What expressed Bible verse(s) exist to bring you to this answer? Meaning, what caveat(s) exist which do not absolutely require belief?

[1213]

my answer is no.

....
What expressed Bible verse(s) exist to bring you to this answer? Meaning, what caveat(s) exist which do not absolutely require belief?

There is no scripture that says it is an absolute requirement for salvation.

Bible gives right to forgive for disciples of Jesus. That means, by the words of Jesus I can declare your sins forgiven, without any conditions.

If you forgive anyone’s sins, they have been forgiven them. If you retain anyone’s sins, they have been retained.”
John 20:23

That saves you from the judgment that would come because of sin.

However, if you after this continue in sin, it was not useful, because you would then have a new sin. That is why I believe Jesus said after forgiving:

...From now on, sin no more."
John 8:4-11

And that is why I think there needs to happen the change Jesus taught, person must be born anew and become righteous.

...That which is born of the flesh is flesh. That which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Don’t marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born anew.’
John 3:3-7
But as many as received him, to them he gave the right to be-come God’s children, to those who believe in his name: who were born not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
John 1:12-13
It is the spirit who gives life. The flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and are life.
John 6:63
He who does righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. To this end the Son of God was revealed: that he might destroy the works of the devil. Whoever is born of God doesn’t commit sin, because his seed remains in him, and he can’t sin, because he is born of God. In this the children of God are revealed, and the children of the devil. Whoever doesn’t do righteousness is not of God, neither is he who doesn’t love his brother.
1 John 3:7-10

Believing that God is real is not useful, if you are not righteous. Even demons believe.

You believe that God is one. You do well. The demons also believe, and shudder.
James 2:19

[POI]

...From now on, sin no more."
John 8:4-11

And that is why I think there needs to happen the change Jesus taught, person must be born anew and become righteous.

Either Romans 3 (or) John 8 must not be taken literally then. Otherwise, there is a conflict. Romans 3 tells the reader that the ONLY way to be saved is by Jesus-faith, as ALL fall short. (i.e.):

Romans 3 - 23 For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. 24 and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. 25 God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement, through the shedding of his blood—to be received by faith.

John 8:11 instead tells readers, "Go now and leave your life of sin".

The takeaway then becomes, which one of these two conflicting messages is not to be taken literally? Are humans capable of becoming sinless? I thought only Jesus was capable?.?.?.? If so, then why did Jesus have to die? If humans can do it without Jesus-faith, by placing trust in the scapegoat - (Jesus), then he died in vain. Just instead tell folks not to "sin" anymore.

And when I mention Jesus-faith, I'm not merely speaking about belief alone, like the devil believes but does not obey... I mean the entire topic of "faith", meaning, trust/hope/worship/prayer/etc. So basically, accept Jesus as your Lord. The lying, theft, trespassing, cheating, and any other 'sin' cannot be stopped 100%. (i.e.):

John 3:16-18
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.

Hebrews 11:6
And without faith it is impossible to please him, for whoever would draw near to God must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who seek him.

[TRANSPONDER]

my answer is no.

....
What expressed Bible verse(s) exist to bring you to this answer? Meaning, what caveat(s) exist which do not absolutely require belief?

There is no scripture that says it is an absolute requirement for salvation.

Bible gives right to forgive for disciples of Jesus. That means, by the words of Jesus I can declare your sins forgiven, without any conditions.

If you forgive anyone’s sins, they have been forgiven them. If you retain anyone’s sins, they have been retained.”
John 20:23

That saves you from the judgment that would come because of sin.

However, if you after this continue in sin, it was not useful, because you would then have a new sin. That is why I believe Jesus said after forgiving:

...From now on, sin no more."
John 8:4-11

And that is why I think there needs to happen the change Jesus taught, person must be born anew and become righteous.

...That which is born of the flesh is flesh. That which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Don’t marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born anew.’
John 3:3-7
But as many as received him, to them he gave the right to be-come God’s children, to those who believe in his name: who were born not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
John 1:12-13
It is the spirit who gives life. The flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and are life.
John 6:63
He who does righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. To this end the Son of God was revealed: that he might destroy the works of the devil. Whoever is born of God doesn’t commit sin, because his seed remains in him, and he can’t sin, because he is born of God. In this the children of God are revealed, and the children of the devil. Whoever doesn’t do righteousness is not of God, neither is he who doesn’t love his brother.
1 John 3:7-10

Believing that God is real is not useful, if you are not righteous. Even demons believe.

You believe that God is one. You do well. The demons also believe, and shudder.
James 2:19

Stap me, the arrogance. That you apparently think that as a believer you have the power to forgive sins of people - who do not believe your own particular brand of Christianity? Those who believe in eternal torment Not using your Interpretation. Are you going to forgive their sins, too?

Aside the random posting of Bibletext (we know that means whatever you want it to mean, anyway) your claim that some sudden emotional transformation through Faith will make one a better person applies to all religions or none, and we have seen to much of the religious transformation that makes people do evil in the belief that they are doing good.

No, the world (outside of a few Muslim countries and Arkansas) use Humanist morals and twist, ignore and rewrite religion to suit what they know is the better thing, and then try to fool people that it what their Holy book teaches.

Deconverts have often said that what deconverted them was actually reading the Bible.

[1213]

Either Romans 3 (or) John 8 must not be taken literally then. Otherwise, there is a conflict. Romans 3 tells the reader that the ONLY way to be saved is by Jesus-faith, as ALL fall short. (i.e.):

Romans 3 - 23 For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. 24 and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. 25 God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement, through the shedding of his blood—to be received by faith.

God forgave sins through Jesus. You can accept it or you can reject it. If you accept it, it means you show faith = trust to that it is true. But it is there regardless of what you think. It just is not useful, if you don't accept it and if you continue in sin.

John 8:11 instead tells readers, "Go now and leave your life of sin".

Don't you notice, it is not speaking of how to be saved? It is something that should happen after one is saved, after sins have been forgiven. If after forgiveness you continue in sin, you would need to be rescued/saved again.

Are humans capable of becoming sinless?

I believe that is possible with God's help.

If so, then why did Jesus have to die?

Bible tells these are the reasons why Jesus died:

For to this end Christ died, rose, and lived again, that he might be Lord of both the dead and the living.
Romans 14:9
Most assuredly I tell you, unless a grain of wheat falls into the earth and dies, it remains by itself alone. But if it dies, it bears much fruit.
John 12:24

[POI]

Either Romans 3 (or) John 8 must not be taken literally then. Otherwise, there is a conflict. Romans 3 tells the reader that the ONLY way to be saved is by Jesus-faith, as ALL fall short. (i.e.):

Romans 3 - 23 For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. 24 and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. 25 God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement, through the shedding of his blood—to be received by faith.

God forgave sins through Jesus. You can accept it or you can reject it. If you accept it, it means you show faith = trust to that it is true. But it is there regardless of what you think. It just is not useful, if you don't accept it and if you continue in sin.

You either continue not to get my point here, or, are purposefully ignoring my point here. The verses state all fall short. This means you cannot remain without 'sin'. Try as you might, it ain't happening. So sure, you can have a 'change of heart', but you will always still fall short of perfection. This is why righteous equals Jesus-faith. Nothing else will do! And by Jesus-faith, I mean answer B).

I believe that is possible with God's help.

Nope. The Bible tells you that cannot be 'sinless'. This is why the Bible tells you that you need "Jesus-faith".

Bible tells these are the reasons why Jesus died:

For to this end Christ died, rose, and lived again, that he might be Lord of both the dead and the living.
Romans 14:9
Most assuredly I tell you, unless a grain of wheat falls into the earth and dies, it remains by itself alone. But if it dies, it bears much fruit.
John 12:24

You skipped the verses we are discussing. It's right there. He had to die to become the only perfect sacrifice. No one else can be "perfect/sinless", like him:

"22 This righteousness is given through faith in[h] Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference between Jew and Gentile, 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. 25 God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement, through the shedding of his blood—to be received by faith."

[1213]

Either Romans 3 (or) John 8 must not be taken literally then. Otherwise, there is a conflict. Romans 3 tells the reader that the ONLY way to be saved is by Jesus-faith, as ALL fall short. (i.e.):

Romans 3 - 23 For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. 24 and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. 25 God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement, through the shedding of his blood—to be received by faith.

God forgave sins through Jesus. You can accept it or you can reject it. If you accept it, it means you show faith = trust to that it is true. But it is there regardless of what you think. It just is not useful, if you don't accept it and if you continue in sin.

You either continue not to get my point here, or, are purposefully ignoring my point here. The verses state all fall short. This means you cannot remain without 'sin'. Try as you might, it ain't happening. So sure, you can have a 'change of heart', but you will always still fall short of perfection. This is why righteous equals Jesus-faith. Nothing else will do! And by Jesus-faith, I mean answer B).

Bible doesn't say "you cannot remain without 'sin'". It says all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. That one has once sinned, doesn't mean he will always sin.

Nope. The Bible tells you that cannot be 'sinless'.

Nope, there is no scripture in the Bible that says "you cannot be 'sinless'". It is fascinating why you make stuff up like that.

He had to die to become the only perfect sacrifice. ...

"22 This righteousness is given through faith in[h] Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference between Jew and Gentile, 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. 25 God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement, through the shedding of his blood—to be received by faith."

That doesn't say "He had to die to become the only perfect sacrifice".

[POI]

Bible doesn't say "you cannot remain without 'sin'". It says all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. That one has once sinned, doesn't mean he will always sin.

Then the only way one is deemed (righteous), is by applying (Jesus-faith). Hence, these two terms are interchangeable. Thank you for completely conceding my point. When you have Jesus-faith, you will still sin.

Nope, there is no scripture in the Bible that says "you cannot be 'sinless'". It is fascinating why you make stuff up like that.

1 John 1:8: "If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us"
Romans 7:14–24: While in the flesh, people will always struggle with a sinful nature

Only Jesus is/was/always "sinless". This is why Jesus acted as a 'sheep', as the only "sinless" being to atone for all sinners. This is "Christianity 101."

That doesn't say "He had to die to become the only perfect sacrifice".

Now you are just being hardheaded. See above.

[TRANSPONDER]

Yes, that does seem to show that our pal is supposing that Jesusfaith is what saves, not works. Which is how i read it, too.

As well as the clear message that Jesus was a blood sacrifice with a Passover lamb as a symbol of it in order to make a loophole in God's law of sin - death (but only for those who sign up get an account, password and security code- not Everyone gets saved for nothing - ohh nooo). But we got the 'it does not say those exact words' evasion.

We have seen some pretty ludicrous, clumsy and frankly poor efforts by our pal to escape serious questions. But it is never about the amount of denial to prop up the Faith but about the case that can be made to the undecided, and like the election, the Believers are banking on the majority of US citizens only ever listening to the bias confirmation side.