The End Times Are Very Near

[axeplayer]

There is a lot of evidence supporting the idea that the end times and the rapture are very near to happening. for example, the United Nations fulfill the prophesy that very near to the end times, the world will be united as one, and there will be peace on the earth(even though we're a long way from peace). also, barcodes, credit cards etc. are an early warning to the mark of the beast being used to pay for all of our expenses. In college station, Texas, there are stores where you can pay for your groceries, appliances, etc., with your thumbprint. So what does everyone else think? Are the end times and Judgement Day near?

[MJB05]

Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled. Mat 24:34

Yeah, prophecies are trustful indeed. 8)

Long live the charlatans!

I just wanted to point out that you took one verse from the Bible out of context and used it to make your point...which isn't very credible in terms of a bedate (although I guess one could argue that it is a useful tool in a debate)...that being said I'd figure I'd give context to the verse...


The verse in question was Jesus' response when the desciples asked him if he was going to restore Isreal. Jesus then explains about the things that would happen before Isreal was restored. The verse that you quoted was talking about the generation of peopple alive when Isreal was restored as a nation. I don't think I will get much opposition when I state that the generation alive when Isreal became a nation again are still here...

This exact verse you quoted is why many believe that the end times are very near....

[McCulloch]

Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled. Mat 24:34

Yeah, prophecies are trustful indeed. 8)

Long live the charlatans!

I just wanted to point out that you took one verse from the Bible out of context and used it to make your point...which isn't very credible in terms of a bedate (although I guess one could argue that it is a useful tool in a debate)...that being said I'd figure I'd give context to the verse...
The verse in question was Jesus' response when the disciples asked him if he was going to restore Israel. Jesus then explains about the things that would happen before Israel was restored. The verse that you quoted was talking about the generation of people alive when Israel was restored as a nation. I don't think I will get much opposition when I state that the generation alive when Israel became a nation again are still here...

This exact verse you quoted is why many believe that the end times are very near....

So the generation that was alive when Israel was re-established will not die out before the end of the world. History has shown that when specific times have passed for the end of the world, christians just change their interpretation of the prophesies. Please look the the history of the Millerites. The end times have been very very near for one branch of christians on and off for about two millenia. Why is this time different?

[Cathar1950]

If there is nothing after this then this is inportant.
If there is it must be related to this life or it is meaningless
and therefor this is important.
No all Christians or Jews feel the end is coming soon so
what differece does it make.
But i don't like the thought of some one who belives that way should have their fingers on the button or lead armies.
Daniel was written about 190's BCE and Revelation seems to have been edited and written in phases. But they were to give people hope in terrible times and dreams of being vindicated and revenged.
I am afraid that people like Jack Van Impe, Pat Robertson, and Hal Linsey are just making a lot of money and some self fulfilling prophesy.
Their stuff is out of context and from the 1800's. Some times they take stuff literally and some times it is metaphor it just depends on how they want to twist it. I don't know what Jesus thought all we got is some of his followers reports many decades later and if they were correct in their reports(often contradictory) it didn't happen they way they said it would.
revelations is mostly suridly anti-Roman and coded.

[micatala]

The verse in question was Jesus' response when the desciples asked him if he was going to restore Isreal. Jesus then explains about the things that would happen before Isreal was restored. The verse that you quoted was talking about the generation of peopple alive when Isreal was restored as a nation. I don't think I will get much opposition when I state that the generation alive when Isreal became a nation again are still here...

This is the interpretation many people today give the prophecies. However, it is fairly clear from the Bible that those alive during Jesus time felt that 'this generation' was their generation, the generation alive when Christ was alive.

Look at James 5:7 for example. "Be patient brothers until the Lord's coming. . . .8. You too, be patient and stand firm, because the Lord's coming is near".

The plainest interpretation is that James believed Jesus was coming back in the very near future.

Also, consider Thessalonians chapter 2, where Paul addresses the Thessalonians because they believe that the Lord had already returned at that time! Obviously there was a great deal of expectation that Jesus return was very imminent.

Many scholars would agree that the disciples and many if not most in the early church believed Jesus would be returning in only a few years. It seems that the best Biblical evidence suggests Jesus is around 1900 years overdue.

Today, because Jesus did not return in the past, we reinterpret these verses to fit our circumstances.

I would also point out that even when one can make a case that a prophecy has come true, it often does not come true in the way most (or even any) of the people at the time expected. Consider the prophecies related to the first coming of Christ and the actions and words of those alive at the time of Jesus. Many expected Jesus to come and establish an earthly kingdom, defeating the Romans, etc. Very few, if any expected a crucifixion. Only afterwards were scriptures reinterpreted to take the crucifixion into account, and to divide the Messianic prophecies into those which related to the first coming and those related to the second.

My own view is that, if and when anything that could be considered the second coming of Christ occurs, it will not be anything like what is commonly portrayed today in evangelical circles (eg. LaHaye and company).

[MJB05]

The verse in question was Jesus' response when the desciples asked him if he was going to restore Isreal. Jesus then explains about the things that would happen before Isreal was restored. The verse that you quoted was talking about the generation of peopple alive when Isreal was restored as a nation. I don't think I will get much opposition when I state that the generation alive when Isreal became a nation again are still here...

This is the interpretation many people today give the prophecies. However, it is fairly clear from the Bible that those alive during Jesus time felt that 'this generation' was their generation, the generation alive when Christ was alive.

Look at James 5:7 for example. "Be patient brothers until the Lord's coming. . . .8. You too, be patient and stand firm, because the Lord's coming is near".

The plainest interpretation is that James believed Jesus was coming back in the very near future.

Also, consider Thessalonians chapter 2, where Paul addresses the Thessalonians because they believe that the Lord had already returned at that time! Obviously there was a great deal of expectation that Jesus return was very imminent.

Many scholars would agree that the disciples and many if not most in the early church believed Jesus would be returning in only a few years. It seems that the best Biblical evidence suggests Jesus is around 1900 years overdue.

Today, because Jesus did not return in the past, we reinterpret these verses to fit our circumstances.

I would also point out that even when one can make a case that a prophecy has come true, it often does not come true in the way most (or even any) of the people at the time expected. Consider the prophecies related to the first coming of Christ and the actions and words of those alive at the time of Jesus. Many expected Jesus to come and establish an earthly kingdom, defeating the Romans, etc. Very few, if any expected a crucifixion. Only afterwards were scriptures reinterpreted to take the crucifixion into account, and to divide the Messianic prophecies into those which related to the first coming and those related to the second.

My own view is that, if and when anything that could be considered the second coming of Christ occurs, it will not be anything like what is commonly portrayed today in evangelical circles (eg. LaHaye and company).

They were expecting it to come at any time because that is what Jesus said to do. He said to be prepared so that you aren't caught off guard. Jesus told them that it was not for them to know the date or the time, so just because the Aposles believed that His return was very near doesn't point to all of what Jesus said to mean that He was coming back in a few years. It clearly states that they did not know when Jesus was coming back but were ready for it at any time. Just because they believed that his return would have been in a few years doesn't mean that we are reinterpreting it today. We are just listening to what Jesus said and are being constantly ready.

[micatala]

They were expecting it to come at any time because that is what Jesus said to do. He said to be prepared so that you aren't caught off guard. Jesus told them that it was not for them to know the date or the time, so just because the Aposles believed that His return was very near doesn't point to all of what Jesus said to mean that He was coming back in a few years. It clearly states that they did not know when Jesus was coming back but were ready for it at any time. Just because they believed that his return would have been in a few years doesn't mean that we are reinterpreting it today.

Yes, I agree, the central message is that we should always be ready, as if Jesus would appear anytime.

Yes, I agree, Jesus did not point to any specific time, and none of us knows the day or the hour.

However, this does not negate the fact that the Apostles and others, based on what Jesus said, felt that they would live to see him return. This is the most plain interpretation, and I would suggest that most would agree, except for the fact that we have now been waiting nearly 2000 years. My point is that if one looks ONLY at the text, one would likely reach the conclusion that the second coming would occur within a few years of the first.

Now, I would allow one could make the case for ambiguity, but why would one make an alternate interpretation except for the non-biblical evidence that we have (the lack of a second coming to date)?

We are just listening to what Jesus said and are being constantly ready.

You and others may be doing exactly this. However, this is definitely not what many many others are up to. Evangelical circles are full of talk about how we know that the second coming is imminent (in time!). In fact, that seems to be the motivation for this whole thread. These people are trying to have it both ways, on the one hand saying ' well, we don't really know the day or the hour,' but on the other hand often making very specific predictions that it will occur very soon (eg. Hal Lindsay).

My point is that, if those at the time of Jesus were wrong about their expectations for when the second coming would occur, how can the folks who are currently so sure that the second coming will be happening in the next 5, 10, 50 years or whatever be so sure they are not off the mark?

What will these people do if the last person alive in 1948 dies without the second coming occurring? This would seem to me to be the absolute limit of 'the generation.'

We unfortunately will probably have to put up with what, in my mind, is a bit of hysteria for at least another 50 years.

[McCulloch]

What will these people do if the last person alive in 1948 dies without the second coming occurring? This would seem to me to be the absolute limit of 'the generation.'
We unfortunately will probably have to put up with what, in my mind, is a bit of hysteria for at least another 50 years.

History has shown that when that occurs, the true believers will have moved on to another interpretation of the relevent prophesies. Any reading of the history of the Jehovah's Witnesses, Millerites and Adventists will illustrate this point.

[JED]

How near is near?

We're in the third seal, the fourth is just starting.

We're out of here at the last trump. (the trumpets follow the seals).

It's gonna be a while.

Sit tight. (occupy 'til I come)

[JED]

Someone asked how long is a generation.

Four ages are appointed to this creation, each age is begun by a patriarch who owes his origin to a special creation of God.

God created Adam from the dust of the ground. The generation of Adam is still with us today. It's, um, everybody.

God brought forth Isaac from the womb of a 90 year old woman. The generation of Isaac is still with us today. We call 'em Jews, I'm one, are you one too?

Jesus was conceived in the womb of a virgin. He's God's only begotten son. Those born into his family are "born from above" or "born again". You know, born once, die twice; born twice, die once. This is the generation that will not pass 'til all these things be fulfilled. In other words, at the last trump.

It all makes sense to those who take God at his Word.

If you have a problem with it, you'll have an even bigger problem when that last trumpet sounds.

[McCulloch]

How near is near?

We're in the third seal, the fourth is just starting.

We're out of here at the last trump. (the trumpets follow the seals).

It's gonna be a while.

Sit tight. (occupy 'til I come)

Do you have any evidence of what constituted the first three seals? I am unaware of agreement among christians of the meaning of the seals and the trumps.