Where's God?

[POI]

Does he pop up in my dreams? Is he the one whom produces my goose-bumps? Is He the one giving me my "moral compass"? Is he only experienced during deep meditation? If I have enough faith, will he appear to me? But seriously. Where is he? I was a Christian for decades. I earnestly prayed for him to reach me, to no avail.

For debate: Why have I not felt his presence?

A) I never tried hard enough; lack faith
B) He does not want to reveal Himself to me (yet)
C) Evil is blocking the request(s)
D) I'm too dumb to realize he's reaching me
E) He's not really there at all <- Current conclusion

Do not answer yet. This topic has spawned from another unrelated topic. I decided to devote this large topic to itself. Below are some premises:

P1) does god exist? (dunno)
P2) does god want a relationship with all, especially the ones who seek him (apparently so)
P3) is god capable of communicating (apparently so)
P4) can god communicate his message in a way in which the recipient could no longer deny (apparently so)
P5) have I asked for this communication earnestly and repetitively (YES)
P6) does the Bible state god answers the call to all who seek him (YES)

At best, god has opted not to contact me YET. And this would be after decades of actively seeking him. Without any emotion, I'm logically left with 2 options.

A) God is not really there <- Current conclusion.
B) God is not adhering to his promise (yet).

[POI]

Again, you are presenting it as if Paul created X, and the Gospels were created to corroborate X. As if the Gospels were a byproduct of Paul's creation...when Paul said himself, that he was a product of a pre-existing creation. You are just factually wrong here...and you are sitting here defending a demonstrably false position...which is wild. You are simply, wrong.

1) Paul’s epistles are currently the earliest found and surviving written documents that explicitly claim Jesus rose from the dead. And sure, Paul claims people were already believing and such, but we have no sources for this to corroborate what Paul asserts. This is why I brought up Joseph and the 'golden plates.' At least there, we have corroboration. Later anonymous Gospels are not corroboration. And if you think they ARE, then you should believe any claim to the miraculous, whether it be magic plates, magic keys, magic aliens, etc etc etc etc.

2) Paul's epistles broadened the "religion" to be more-so inclusive to all comers, as opposed to the assertions of the 'OT'.

3) Mark, followed by Luke, (which came decade(s) later), were influenced by Paul's theology. We know this because they both wrote to "adapt" to the growing Jesus tradition -- in response to the presented broader Pauline movement, brought forth by none other than Saul/Paul.

Yeah, and I'm basing this position from what scholars, on both sides of the coin (belief/unbelief), agree on. When the evidence is so strong, that folks on both sides of the spectrum agree on it..that should tell you something about the evidence.

1) I thought you wanted to debate my arguments, and not what others think?
2) If I was to base this rationale evenly across all topics, then why do you denounce some peer reviewed topic(s)? Special pleading much?
3) Please track my actual position and stop misrepresenting what I am saying. (See my response(s) below)... You keep digging your own grave here Venom. Please stop before you dig all the way to the opposite side of the planet.

All scholars agree that Paul's conversion, and his epistles, predate the Gospels....

And so, do I. Paul's "Damascus Road Experience" allegedly happened only a few years after the alleged resurrection tour. I'm not disputing this at all. He claims to have had an experience. We went over this, (pages ago), remember? And I had asked why I cannot have a similar experience. And you stated something to the effect of, "these types of experiences are/were reserved for a very few, and that the ones who believe without such evidence(s) are more blessed;" or whatever cherrypicked Bible verse you opted to elect at the time to avoid why Jesus ain't contacting me -- (even after decades of inquiry).

As I stated from the jump, Paul makes a claim about this/that/other. One of those claims is that others already believed, etc.... But when we look for corroboration to Paul's claims about what others believers, this is when we must address the Gospels, and the Gospels are wacked. And that is when we transitioned into "Mark and Luke". Is all this starting to ring a bell in the 'ol noggin Venom?

Ok...it is pointless. Moving along.

No, I'm not moving along because THIS topic is asking for such. I'm instead entertaining all your side-hustle apologetic nonsense, and awaiting you to actually address this OP. After our exchange, you claimed that Jesus answers your prayer. You stated you love me. I know you want me converted. I also know that Jesus wants me to follow him. I've given you the one-step recipe to convert me and you refuse. Speaking about things which make NO SENSE....

Why would I need to run?

6th attempt:

You asserted that I could not locate an example where Luke corrects or fixes Mark, and I gave you one:

Mark puts a risen Jesus in Galilee, then ends at Mark 16:8. But hey, we're only talking about a very minor detail, in the resurrection sightings, (which is the most important event in human history). I'm sure 'Mark' just figured it was not important to mention that he <also> went to Jerusalem. Luke 'corrects' this, by instead putting Jesus directly in Jerusalem, (and skipping sighting(s) in Galilee). Again, minor details omitted. Not really that important at all.... I mean, it's only where he "appeared" to folks after rotting for 2-3 days in a guarded tomb.

It wasn't much of a thing, yet they took the time to select the books, compile them, and make copies to/for the masses.

Scientology isn't much of a thing. And yet, we have countless copies and millions of believers. My point here is that most aren't scrutinizing scientology, unless it became the official religion and majority. If it did, I would actually take it seriously and maybe go to work exposing all of its flaws. This is a more recent thing, as Christianity was protected for generations. All past skeptics, not too long ago, were still banned from ridicule. This answers your prior question regarding why there was little pushback. There was little, when it became a thing, because it was not allowed for centuries. That's all.

I'm sure there exists countless inconsistencies within all religions, but since most hold no 'force' over the masses, many/most just let them be -- since they pose no real 'threat' to reality.

For example... Just think how much further we might be, in global discovery today, had all religion(s) not got in the way to stifle progress?

Genetic Fallacy. And false, at that.

You crack me up Venom. I'm not stating that the religion is false because Paul advanced it. I'm saying you would not be 'die hard' for this particular collection of nonsense had Paul not advanced it. That's all. Alternatively, all it takes for most to denounce this ridiculous set of claims is to just read all of it and then compare all the claims to reality.

[SiNcE_1985]

1) Paul’s epistles are currently the earliest found and surviving written documents that explicitly claim Jesus rose from the dead.

Yeah, no spit, Sherlock.

You don't need to rehash what I've been telling you for the past few pages.

I know what I've been saying.

We both know what's up...as anyone who is following this, knows as well.

And sure, Paul claims people were already believing and such, but we have no sources for this to corroborate what Paul asserts.

Obviously, if, according to Tacitus, a mischievous superstition arose at the result of Jesus' death..then that is all the corroboration we need that people were already believing and such.

And Tacitus is a non-Christian, non-Biblical source.

So we have a non-Christian co-signing what Paul said.

Oh, I get it...you expect a signed affidavit of every single person who did what Paul asserts.

Ridiculous.

This is why I brought up Joseph and the 'golden plates.' At least there, we have corroboration. Later anonymous Gospels are not corroboration. And if you think they ARE, then you should believe any claim to the miraculous, whether it be magic plates, magic keys, magic aliens, etc etc etc etc.

Obviously, if believers could read and write like much of the population could (by comparison) in the 1800's...you would have more of your precious written corroboration.

But they couldn't, so they spread the word orally..which apparently worked...considering how Christianity grew, and fast.

Second, Luke states in his preface that many people had already given accounts before him..which he said had originated from eyewitnesses.

Either you believe it, or you don't.

2) Paul's epistles broadened the "religion" to be more-so inclusive to all comers, as opposed to the assertions of the 'OT'.

And?

3) Mark, followed by Luke, (which came decade(s) later), were influenced by Paul's theology. We know this because they both wrote to "adapt" to the growing Jesus tradition -- in response to the presented broader Pauline movement, brought forth by none other than Saul/Paul.

Please enlighten me on how the Gospels were influenced by Paul's theology.

Or are you just saying shit?

1) I thought you wanted to debate my arguments, and not what others think?

Your arguments are terrible.

2) If I was to base this rationale evenly across all topics, then why do you denounce some peer reviewed topic(s)? Special pleading much?

Because, I don't believe everything someone says.

And so, do I. Paul's "Damascus Road Experience" allegedly happened only a few years after the alleged resurrection tour. I'm not disputing this at all. He claims to have had an experience. We went over this, (pages ago), remember? And I had asked why I cannot have a similar experience.

Because God didn't choose you, apparently.

Plain and simple. Nothing to cry about.

And you stated something to the effect of, "these types of experiences are/were reserved for a very few, and that the ones who believe without such evidence(s) are more blessed;" or whatever cherrypicked Bible verse you opted to elect at the time to avoid why Jesus ain't contacting me -- (even after decades of inquiry).

What I said, stands.

You are just like Doubting Thomas. You are requesting to see X..and are insinuating that you won't believe until you do.

Which is the same thing Thomas said.

And Jesus said those who don't see X, and still believes, are blessed.

So, I didn't pull the verse out of the clear blue sky.

It is in direct correspondence to what is going on here, now.

As I stated from the jump, Paul makes a claim about this/that/other. One of those claims is that others already believed, etc.... But when we look for corroboration to Paul's claims about what others believers, this is when we must address the Gospels, and the Gospels are wacked. And that is when we transitioned into "Mark and Luke". Is all this starting to ring a bell in the 'ol noggin Venom?

No, it doesn't. Your Paul stuff has fallen flat, so your trying to moonwalk to the Gospels.

That's all it is.

No, I'm not moving along because THIS topic is asking for such. I'm instead entertaining all your side-hustle apologetic nonsense, and awaiting you to actually address this OP. After our exchange, you claimed that Jesus answers your prayer. You stated you love me. I know you want me converted. I also know that Jesus wants me to follow him. I've given you the one-step recipe to convert me and you refuse. Speaking about things which make NO SENSE....

You: I don't believe in Jesus, or prayer.

But..

You: I want you to pray, to Jesus, for me.

That literally makes no sense, whatsoever.

6th attempt:

You asserted that I could not locate an example where Luke corrects or fixes Mark, and I gave you one:

Mark puts a risen Jesus in Galilee, then ends at Mark 16:8. But hey, we're only talking about a very minor detail, in the resurrection sightings, (which is the most important event in human history). I'm sure 'Mark' just figured it was not important to mention that he <also> went to Jerusalem. Luke 'corrects' this, by instead putting Jesus directly in Jerusalem, (and skipping sighting(s) in Galilee). Again, minor details omitted. Not really that important at all.... I mean, it's only where he "appeared" to folks after rotting for 2-3 days in a guarded tomb.

I don't view that as a correction, though...and I explained why. So for you to continue pasting that nonsense, is a waste of both our time.

Scientology isn't much of a thing. And yet, we have countless copies and millions of believers.

Obviously, it is much of a thing to those that practice the religion (if we call it that).

People don't make countless copies of something that they don't seem, a thing.

My point here is that most aren't scrutinizing scientology, unless it became the official religion and majority.

Soccer is the most popular sport in the world...and I think this sport is a snooze-fest.

It's completely, utterly, BORING...IMHO.

Do I care about the World Cup? No. Do I care about the sport, period? No.

Has the sport consumed any considerable part of my life? No.

Do I spend years/decades, on message forums dedicated to soccer, asking questions, making threads, or trying to get people to convince me that soccer is a fun sport to watch or play? No.

See my point here? I don't rock with soccer...so I LEAVE..IT..ALONE.

I encourage you to try this^, with Christianity.

I'm sure there exists countless inconsistencies within all religions, but since most hold no 'force' over the masses, many/most just let them be -- since they pose no real 'threat' to reality.

Inconsistencies with science, too.

But for some reason, you never seem to give those inconsistencies any of your valuable time.

For example... Just think how much further we might be, in global discovery today, had all religion(s) not got in the way to stifle progress?

This is a vague, blank, unproven assertion.

You crack me up Venom. I'm not stating that the religion is false because Paul advanced it.

I'm saying you would not be 'die hard' for this particular collection of nonsense had Paul not advanced it.

I wouldn't be a Christian, if it weren't for Jesus.

That's all. Alternatively, all it takes for most to denounce this ridiculous set of claims is to just read all of it and then compare all the claims to reality.

The B5.

Perhaps you should focus on proving naturalistic claims...before you hop, skip, and jump over to religion.

Have that same energy for denouncing the B5.

You can't even prove claims within your own worldview, but have the nerve to bang on religion.

Get your own stuff together.

[POI]

Obviously, if, according to Tacitus, a mischievous superstition arose at the result of Jesus' death..then that is all the corroboration we need that people were already believing and such. And Tacitus is a non-Christian, non-Biblical source. So we have a non-Christian co-signing what Paul said. Oh, I get it...you expect a signed affidavit of every single person who did what Paul asserts. Ridiculous.

Sure, but was it before or after Paul began his stuff? Remember, Paul's events happened just a few years after the alleged resurrection.

Obviously, if believers could read and write like much of the population could (by comparison) in the 1800's...you would have more of your precious written corroboration. But they couldn't, so they spread the word orally..which apparently worked...considering how Christianity grew, and fast.

Even so, all we have are the Gospels, which are wacked anyways. And I've explained why ad nauseum.

Second, Luke states in his preface that many people had already given accounts before him..which he said had originated from eyewitnesses. Either you believe it, or you don't.

LOL! Then I guess it happened. I've already spoke about "Luke"; it is not trustworthy.

And?

And, now you are offering very poor apologetics to an unsupported collection of supernatural claims.

Please enlighten me on how the Gospels were influenced by Paul's theology. Or are you just saying shit?

Wow! I thought this was common knowledge, being you follow the scholars and all? Scholars deduce Luke’s familiarity with the Pauline epistles through striking parallels in theology, vocabulary, and specific narrative events. Furthermore, church tradition and internal textual markers in Acts (the "we" passages) suggest Luke was a traveling companion of Paul, giving him direct access to the apostle’s teachings.

Your arguments are terrible.

Though I can understand you would like to take another baseless jab, you missed my point. If your position is to get behind scholars (on both sides of the isle), you need to be consistent.

Because, I don't believe everything someone says.

Peer review is nothing like that. And yet, you still handwave it.

Because God didn't choose you, apparently. Plain and simple. Nothing to cry about.

No. It's because he's likely not even there, plain and simple.

What I said, stands. You are just like Doubting Thomas. You are requesting to see X..and are insinuating that you won't believe until you do. Which is the same thing Thomas said. And Jesus said those who don't see X, and still believes, are blessed. So, I didn't pull the verse out of the clear blue sky. It is in direct correspondence to what is going on here, now.

This is why I'm asking YOU, the claimant to answered prayer, to ask god for my VIN number. If he answers your prayer, you can tell me what he says to you? Lemme guess, even if you ask, you are going to tell me he said 'no'? I'm guessing this would be the best case scenario.

You: I don't believe in Jesus, or prayer. But.. You: I want you to pray, to Jesus, for me. That literally makes no sense, whatsoever.

I've already repeatedly pointed out what makes no sense. And you continue to avoid. We all know why.

I don't view that as a correction, though...and I explained why. So for you to continue pasting that nonsense, is a waste of both our time.

Nope. It's not a waste of time because, at most, you offered a very lame response, which is equal to a handwave. Not going to let this go, as this cuts to the heart of your precious collection of beliefs. But I won't hold my breath.

7th attempt:

You asserted that I could not locate an example where Luke corrects or fixes Mark, and I gave you one:

Mark puts a risen Jesus in Galilee, then ends at Mark 16:8. But hey, we're only talking about a very minor detail, in the resurrection sightings, (which is the most important event in human history). I'm sure 'Mark' just figured it was not important to mention that he <also> went to Jerusalem. Luke 'corrects' this, by instead putting Jesus directly in Jerusalem, (and skipping sighting(s) in Galilee). Again, minor details omitted. Not really that important at all.... I mean, it's only where he "appeared" to folks after rotting for 2-3 days in a guarded tomb.

Obviously, it is much of a thing to those that practice the religion (if we call it that). People don't make countless copies of something that they don't seem, a thing.

Thank you for validating my original point here. Being on Team-Jesus, prior to Paul, was more-so like what you just said above.

Soccer is the most popular sport in the world...and I think this sport is a snooze-fest. It's completely, utterly, BORING...IMHO. Do I care about the World Cup? No. Do I care about the sport, period? No. Has the sport consumed any considerable part of my life? No. Do I spend years/decades, on message forums dedicated to soccer, asking questions, making threads, or trying to get people to convince me that soccer is a fun sport to watch or play? No. See my point here? I don't rock with soccer...so I LEAVE..IT..ALONE. I encourage you to try this^, with Christianity.

(Sports and religion) might as well be like (apples and oranges). Please do a little better Venom.

Inconsistencies with science, too. But for some reason, you never seem to give those inconsistencies any of your valuable time.

In peer reviewed science?

This is a vague, blank, unproven assertion.

Here's an easy example... The absolute rejection of the Antipodes—the belief that humans could live on the opposite, inverted side of the globe—is a prominent early Christian example. Rooted in literal interpretations of scripture, prominent Church Fathers argued it was impossible to cross the oceans, or that people there could not be descended from Adam.

***********************************

At this point, it is CLEAR you never had anything to offer for THIS topic. I gave you countless chances, and you instead wish to focus on everything else, even though you made the claims that you made. Either $h1+, or GET OFF OF THE POT.

Pray to your Jesus and ask him to tell you my VIN number. Then relay to me what he states. Continued failure to do so will further strengthen my hypothesis, in the OP.

**************************************

On a side note, I was hoping you would respond to Diffugia's last response to you, but I noticed you never did?.?.?

[SiNcE_1985]

Sure, but was it before or after Paul began his stuff?

Does it matter?

Or you just throwing spit at the wall, and hoping it sticks?

Remember, Paul's events happened just a few years after the alleged resurrection.

Point?

Even so, all we have are the Gospels, which are wacked anyways. And I've explained why ad nauseum.

Opinions.

LOL! Then I guess it happened. I've already spoke about "Luke"; it is not trustworthy.

People claim they see stuff everyday.

Either they are lying, or telling the truth.

And, now you are offering very poor apologetics to an unsupported collection of supernatural claims.

Weak sauce.

Wow! I thought this was common knowledge, being you follow the scholars and all? Scholars deduce Luke’s familiarity with the Pauline epistles through striking parallels in theology, vocabulary, and specific narrative events. Furthermore, church tradition and internal textual markers in Acts (the "we" passages) suggest Luke was a traveling companion of Paul, giving him direct access to the apostle’s teachings.

Um, no.

The Gospel of Luke is a biography of Jesus..his travels, his teachings, his deeds, his death, resurrection, and appearances.

Paul's writings were NOT biographies of Jesus. Neither epistle details the things that Luke does, besides brief excerpts here and there.

So, I need specifics...and all you're providing is generalized stuff you got from Google searches.

Though I can understand you would like to take another baseless jab, you missed my point. If your position is to get behind scholars (on both sides of the isle), you need to be consistent.

First of all, I never said or insinuated that we shouldn't get behind scholarship...I was speaking more on your argument from authority that you pulled when you appealed to Carroll.

Peer review is nothing like that. And yet, you still handwave it.

Those peers, have an axe to grind...on that particular subject.

No. It's because he's likely not even there, plain and simple.

The more you keep saying that, the more you continue to ask for prayers.

It blows my mind.

The amount of sense this makes, is zero.

This is why I'm asking YOU, the claimant to answered prayer, to ask god for my VIN number. If he answers your prayer, you can tell me what he says to you? Lemme guess, even if you ask, you are going to tell me he said 'no'? I'm guessing this would be the best case scenario.

Sure...go with his "no", or go with his not being there to say anything.

Any way you want to put it; there's your answer.

Now, will you leave Christianity alone?

Nope. It's not a waste of time because, at most, you offered a very lame response, which is equal to a handwave. Not going to let this go, as this cuts to the heart of your precious collection of beliefs. But I won't hold my breath.

Any response is lame, to one who doesn't wish to believe.

Thank you for validating my original point here. Being on Team-Jesus, prior to Paul, was more-so like what you just said above.

For whatever reason, you seem to think that what I said validates your point.

Not sure why you would think that, but hey...have at it

(Sports and religion) might as well be like (apples and oranges). Please do a little better Venom.

Same concept.

It is more like a regular apple, and a candy apple.

Same concept, one just has a little more umph to it.

Here's an easy example... The absolute rejection of the Antipodes—the belief that humans could live on the opposite, inverted side of the globe—is a prominent early Christian example. Rooted in literal interpretations of scripture, prominent Church Fathers argued it was impossible to cross the oceans, or that people there could not be descended from Adam.

?

On a side note, I was hoping you would respond to Diffugia's last response to you, but I noticed you never did?.?.?

I got him.

[POI]

[Replying to SiNcE_1985 in post #494]

Two things remaining...

1) I gave you countless chances to prove that you are not merely speaking to yourself in prayer, for which you could not do in the slightest. Remember Venom, you engaged me, not the other way around. The irony, in telling (me) to "let it go". Anywho, my OP hypothesis is more-so confirmed than ever before.

2) For pure entertainment's sake, I'd like to see you actually respond to post 488.

[SiNcE_1985]

Two things remaining...

1) I gave you countless chances to prove that you are not merely speaking to yourself in prayer, for which you could not do in the slightest. Remember Venom, you engaged me, not the other way around. The irony, in telling (me) to "let it go". Anywho, my OP hypothesis is more-so confirmed than ever before.

I'll respect this situation, should you keep it real with yourself, me, and more importantly, God...if you humble yourself by saying something like..

"Venom, I really believe there is something out there, beyond nature. But, I just don't know who, or what it could be. If it truly is you're God out there, can you pray for me, on my behalf, and ask that he will give me some sort of sign/signal, of his presence..should he exist".

Humbleness^.

I, and more importantly, God, will accept this.

But all of the condescendingly mocking requests, or demands...keep it to yourself.

Because you don't run anything.

If you respect the situation, and come to God proper...I will definitely give a prayer to my Lord and Savior, for you.

Deal?

2) For pure entertainment's sake, I'd like to see you actually respond to post 488.

I said I got him.

[POI]

Two things remaining...

1) I gave you countless chances to prove that you are not merely speaking to yourself in prayer, for which you could not do in the slightest. Remember Venom, you engaged me, not the other way around. The irony, in telling (me) to "let it go". Anywho, my OP hypothesis is more-so confirmed than ever before.

I'll respect this situation, should you keep it real with yourself, me, and more importantly, God...if you humble yourself by saying something like..

"Venom, I really believe there is something out there, beyond nature. But, I just don't know who, or what it could be. If it truly is you're God out there, can you pray for me, on my behalf, and ask that he will give me some sort of sign/signal, of his presence..should he exist".

Humbleness^.

I, and more importantly, God, will accept this.

But all of the condescendingly mocking requests, or demands...keep it to yourself.

Because you don't run anything.

If you respect the situation, and come to God proper...I will definitely give a prayer to my Lord and Savior, for you.

Deal?

2) For pure entertainment's sake, I'd like to see you actually respond to post 488.

I said I got him.

1) Venom, I've been asking you, in all sorts of ways, for pages and pages now, with and without sarcasm. Sure, I respectfully ask that you pray to god and ask him about my car's VIN number. If you provide this value, I will immediately convert and instantly be on team-Jesus. But if you (again) instead come up with some excuse, and/or you do not provide me with this information because you tell me he did not answer or he states 'no', then my OP hypothesis remains intact.

2) What does this statement mean? Post 488 is hanging out there, and you did not respond. Are you under the assumption that you already fully debunked his position and answering post 488 is unnecessary? Other? Please enlighten me here?

[SiNcE_1985]

1) Venom, I've been asking you, in all sorts of ways, for pages and pages now, with and without sarcasm. Sure, I respectfully ask that you pray to god and ask him about my car's VIN number. If you provide this value, I will immediately convert and instantly be on team-Jesus. But if you (again) instead come up with some excuse, and/or you do not provide me with this information because you tell me he did not answer or he states 'no', then my OP hypothesis remains intact.

I tried to level with you, but you didn't agree with the conditions.

So, put this one to bed.

Dont bother with requesting this^ again, of me.

2) What does this statement mean? Post 488 is hanging out there, and you did not respond. Are you under the assumption that you already fully debunked his position and answering post 488 is unnecessary? Other? Please enlighten me here?

I'll respond to Diff's nonsense, momentarily.

My apologies if I'm not moving fast enough for you.

[POI]

1) Venom, I've been asking you, in all sorts of ways, for pages and pages now, with and without sarcasm. Sure, I respectfully ask that you pray to god and ask him about my car's VIN number. If you provide this value, I will immediately convert and instantly be on team-Jesus. But if you (again) instead come up with some excuse, and/or you do not provide me with this information because you tell me he did not answer or he states 'no', then my OP hypothesis remains intact.

I tried to level with you, but you didn't agree with the conditions.

So, put this one to bed.

Dont bother with requesting this^ again, of me.

Well, at least you are consistent (here). Meaning, you were going to wiggle out of producing any actual evidence for your claim, no matter what. This is because prayer is nothing more than talking to yourself.

I'll respond to Diff's nonsense, momentarily.

Great. I'll grab the popcorn.

[SiNcE_1985]

Well, at least you are consistent (here). Meaning, you were going to wiggle out of producing any actual evidence for your claim, no matter what. This is because prayer is nothing more than talking to yourself.

Opinions.

Who knows, maybe with all these decades of probing and prying, you'll come to the Kingdom.

And Jesus will welcome you with open arms.

Great. I'll grab the popcorn.

It's like taking candy from a baby .