Is the concept of Original Sin fair?

Metatron · Post by **Metatron** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 4:26 pm

I have some concerns about the fairness of Original Sin and would be interested other forum members opinion on this issue.

One of my concerns deals with the account as presented in Genesis. God tells Adam not to eat the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil otherwise he will die. Later of course, Adam and Eve are seduced by that rascally serpent, God banishes them from Eden, and death is brought into the world, etc. The problem I have with this is that by definition, not having yet partaken of the famous apple, Adam and Eve have no concept of good and evil and indeed the threat of death is meaningless to them since they also would have no understanding of what death is! Adam and Eve are innocents who have no moral compass with which to make the decision. Its like telling a toddler who has never been disciplined not to eat the really neat looking poisoned candy and then walking away and seeing what happens.

Another thing that bugs me is the implied concept of inheritability of sin, i.e. Adam and Eve sin so everyone else to the umpteenth generation is equally culpable and has a one-way ticket punched to the Really Hot Place. Where is the personal responsibility in that? Indeed, where is free will if the punishment is already in place without a decision having been made? I would think that God at least would want to punish you for the sins that YOU have committed.

Thank you for your time.

Goat · Post by **Goat** » Thu Aug 24, 2006 5:41 pm

Easyrider wrote:
goat wrote:
Scrotum wrote:
goat wrote:
FiredUp4jesus wrote:r the other questions too please.
The dogma about the afterlife is not well defined in the Jewish faith.. there are many variations on the theme. Some of the Hasids believe in reincarnation.

Yes, we know you like to attack beliefs other than yours.

Do you have a point in all that?

Cathar1950 · Post by **Cathar1950** » Thu Aug 24, 2006 6:08 pm

easyrider:

I think these kinds of Jews are what are referred to as Reform Judaism (Jews). They'll believe in whatever suits their fancy, i.e.

What kind of statement is that? What ever suits their fancy? I think that is what Christians do all the time historically. Only a pagan gentile would think a Jews death would pay for they evil wrong deeds, Because it suits their fancy.

easyrider:

So, what we have here is a hodgepodge of beliefs that are all over the board, including even non-belief!

I don’t see that any different for the Christians.

easyrider:

IMO, Reform Judaism is a hodgepodge philosophical structure which is ill-defined, often contradictory to traditional Judaism, etc., man-created, and can certainly incorporate and embrace pagan beliefs and subjective, politically-correct dogma.

I don’t think much of your opinion. Christians have a less credible story.

Goat:
Yes, we know you like to attack beliefs other than yours.

Do you have a point in all that?

I noticed the same thing and wonder that his point is.
Sounds like a poorly reasoned opinion on his part.
It borders on slander and bigotry.
Is that what they teach you in Pauline Jesus school?

AB · Post by AB » Sat Aug 26, 2006 1:09 am

Since Adam/Eve knew the results of eating the fruit beforehand... it is fair.

Inregards to the carrying throught to future generations: Well, that is the reality.

Cathar1950 · Post by **Cathar1950** » Sat Aug 26, 2006 1:40 am

What reality?
Do you think the tree thing really happened and the snake talked to Eve?
Do you think the ate the fruit and their eyes were magically opened and it is historical? Do you believe these reworked myths are fact?

Goat · Post by **Goat** » Sat Aug 26, 2006 8:49 am

AB wrote:Since Adam/Eve knew the results of eating the fruit beforehand... it is fair.

Inregards to the carrying throught to future generations: Well, that is the reality.

Did they?

If you tell a toddler not to play with guns, since someone would get hurt, then you leave a loaded 9mm handgun laying around, who would the law blame if that toddler played with the gun and killed one of his playmates?

Cathar1950 · Post by **Cathar1950** » Sat Aug 26, 2006 3:10 pm

If you tell a toddler not to play with guns, since someone would get hurt, then you leave a loaded 9mm handgun laying around, who would the law blame if that toddler played with the gun and killed one of his playmates?

The toddler would blame his sister and she would blame the snake. Then the parent would kick the toddlers out on the street.
Then the parents would have another kid and kill him so they could let the others back in when they die.
Sweet don't you think?

AB · Post by AB » Sat Aug 26, 2006 6:47 pm

goat wrote:
AB wrote:Since Adam/Eve knew the results of eating the fruit beforehand... it is fair.

Inregards to the carrying throught to future generations: Well, that is the reality.
Did they?

Yes MAN! Come on! .. "but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, fo when you eat of it you will surely die" Genesis 2:17.

Adam knew the results before hand. So, you keep asking this over and over to shake up something for your botched arguement? Yeah, I think so.
If you tell a toddler not to play with guns, since someone would get hurt, then you leave a loaded 9mm handgun laying around, who would the law blame if that toddler played with the gun and killed one of his playmates?

Goat · Post by **Goat** » Sat Aug 26, 2006 6:59 pm

AB wrote: Yes MAN! Come on! .. "but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, fo when you eat of it you will surely die" Genesis 2:17.

Adam knew the results before hand. So, you keep asking this over and over to shake up something for your botched arguement? Yeah, I think so.

You are missing the point. They had not eaten from the knowledge of Good and Evil yet. They were ignorant. Just like the toddler is ignorant of what the consequences are of playing with a loaded gun, even if he was told. It is only after they eat of the tree can they understand the consequences. Before then, they can't.

AB · Post by AB » Sun Aug 27, 2006 4:54 pm

You are missing the point. They had not eaten from the knowledge of Good and Evil yet. They were ignorant. Just like the toddler is ignorant of what the consequences are of playing with a loaded gun, even if he was told. It is only after they eat of the tree can they understand the consequences. Before then, they can't.[/quote]

I

think our points may be different. Adam an Eve were not like toddlers. They knew that they were not suppose to eat that fruit. Look at Eve's discussions with the talking snake... she restates how that is not what she should do according to what God told. I understand your analogy with the toddler. But, I honestly think it is not relevant in this narrative. Underneath it all, Eve and Adam knew eating the fruit was against what God wanted for them. And that is the main point in this.... it's not the result, it is the choice against God.

Goat · Post by **Goat** » Sun Aug 27, 2006 5:22 pm

AB wrote:
think our points may be different. Adam an Eve were not like toddlers. They knew that they were not suppose to eat that fruit. Look at Eve's discussions with the talking snake... she restates how that is not what she should do according to what God told. I understand your analogy with the toddler. But, I honestly think it is not relevant in this narrative. Underneath it all, Eve and Adam knew eating the fruit was against what God wanted for them. And that is the main point in this.... it's not the result, it is the choice against God.
We will just have to agree to disagree then.