Hell

[Grayson]

It has been said to me that God gives people faith to believe in Him.

Fine.

But if that is the case, how can one justify God sending people to Hell for not believing in Him if He only gives certain people the faith to believe in Him? Because it is His will? Then why Create people in the first place if only to send them to Hell?

Anyone?

[smokeyparkin]

Some people cling to a static concept of God with some archaic ideas that were acceptable for the mind set of people thousands of years ago. The essence of God, God's Love, remains stedfast and constant for eternity, but the expression of God is infinite. God will be seen as God needs to be seen for the spiritual advancement of the people who are seeing God at the time of their existence. As Languages, cultures, attitudes, knowledge and understanding changes. The way we see God changes so we can know God's constant Love and understanding regardless of the Time we exist in.

I like that, but shouldn't we re-write the bible and the koran? Cause some people are taking it a little too seriously and people are dying because of it.

[harvey1]

I like that, but shouldn't we re-write the bible and the koran? Cause some people are taking it a little too seriously and people are dying because of it.

Well, I can't speak for the Quran since I have only read passages--not the entire book, but as for the New Testament I don't think there's any reason to rewrite most of it (although there are certain passages which I think are objectionable because they refer to certain Old Testament events such as Abraham's willingness to slay Isaac). The Old Testament has some very objectionable issues, but most in the world are not following the Old Testament (thank God!).

[1John2_26]

I like that, but shouldn't we re-write the bible and the koran? Cause some people are taking it a little too seriously and people are dying because of it.

Please rewrite the Qur'An all you want to. many have rewritten Christian religious texts.

I'll bet you don't fare so well with the Muslims as you will with the Christians.

What needs to be rewritten in the New Testament that will change its message of peace?

[Aristarkos]

1John2_26, your post doesn’t include which quotes are from smokeyparkin and which are from me. I’ll address the only quote of mine that you address…

Maybe everyone makes it to an afterlife, but their level of existence is based their spiritual growth on earth. For example, a murderer would be like a baby. Perhaps this would be a starting point, and opportunities for real growth would go on forever.

Reincarnation is a concept we all know. "Who" decides "what" we come back as, or dwell as?

This idea is not reincarnation. No one comes back. When I say “like a baby” I don’t mean this literally, but more like a spirit of a person that hasn’t grown much spiritually. It’s like what’s left your body is gone. There’s no deciding. This is an idea for a system that is automatically completely fair. What different “levels of existence” are … you just have to use you imagination. Maybe spirits in higher levels of existence have extra freedoms or abilities.

Or maybe we combine with others like the “great link” in Star Trek: DS9.

Like I said…

Just some ideas. I have my doubts.

"Doubt is not a very agreeable state, but certainty is a ridiculous one."

[Aristarkos]

Aristarkos, I think you have excellent ideas. And the truth will open up to you because you are open to futher and deeper understanding of God's lessons.

You said,

But what if there is an afterlife? The traditional heaven and hell doesn’t seem fair. God could do better.

You are so right. The truth is alive and it's God's Love and it exists and is constantly changing and evolving all around you. You can see that and that's wonderful you find a profound understanding of God because God is in your heart.

Some people cling to a static concept of God with some archaic ideas that were acceptable for the mind set of people thousands of years ago. The essence of God, God's Love, remains stedfast and constant for eternity, but the expression of God is infinite. God will be seen as God needs to be seen for the spiritual advancement of the people who are seeing God at the time of their existence. As Languages, cultures, attitudes, knowledge and understanding changes. The way we see God changes so we can know God's constant Love and understanding regardless of the Time we exist in.

God reveals God's self to every generation, in understanding, Love, morals, in the world around us, through prayer, insight and our opening of our hearts to God.

It is for that reason Aristarkos, that it gives me great joy to see how you have opened your heart to God. And you desire to understand God personally in today's terms. Of one thing have no doubt Aristarkos...God loves you and the fact that you are searching for God, is the conclusive proof that God has already found you. GBU Bro!

Thank you for your comments, joer. I'm glad you like my ideas.

"What we need is not the will to believe, but the wish to find out, which is exactly the opposite."

[1John2_26]

Lots of great thinkers out there.

Here's one:

In what way would an atheist think about Einstein? He denies that a personal God put this knowledge in people, yet on the other hand he clearly assumes it is innate, normal, and self-evident. How can he do that?

Einstein:
Everyone who is seriously involved in the pursuit of science becomes convinced that a spirit is manifest in the laws of the universe -- a spirit vastly superior to that of man . . . In this way the pursuit of science leads to a religious feeling of a special sort . . .

(Calaprice, ibid., 211-212 / To student Phyllis Right, who asked if scientists pray, January 24, 1936. Einstein Archive 42-601, 52-337)

Einstein:
Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind.

[Aristarkos]

Some people cling to a static concept of God with some archaic ideas that were acceptable for the mind set of people thousands of years ago. The essence of God, God's Love, remains stedfast and constant for eternity, but the expression of God is infinite. God will be seen as God needs to be seen for the spiritual advancement of the people who are seeing God at the time of their existence. As Languages, cultures, attitudes, knowledge and understanding changes. The way we see God changes so we can know God's constant Love and understanding regardless of the Time we exist in.

I like your perspective. I few years ago I heard a Baptist pastor say:

"I speak as a Christian, but I am not here to defend the Christian faith. I believe that we are at a critical point in world history, one that demands that we learn to love each other across all barriers of race, religion, or rhetoric. Only then can we fulfill our human destiny and bring about the age of love and light foretold in all the sacred texts. I speak as one who believes my way as a Christian is not the only way, nor is it a better way. It is simply another way. And I also speak as one who believes there is a Higher Way, one that most of our religious systems have yet to define and demonstrate fully, and that is the Way of Universal Love."

[smokeyparkin]

Christian is not the only way, nor is it a better way.

So why is he a Christian? Surely a better way for him to approach this is to embrace all people, not their religions. Find out why certain Christians (or whoever) are ok with some things and others aren't.

The only route to Universal Love is by taking down the barriers and the biggest of all are the "set paths".

These set paths are wrong. A sensible individual should not be manipulated by the bible or the qu'ran – that is not the path to Universal Love, far to many people have died (Now and then) for it to be anything of substance and love... Its nothing but total control and it has been going on for years and once man-made religion dies out as we closer to a better understanding of our cosmos -- Universal Love will have to deal with another problem Politics!

How can anyone say they are left or right before they have even heard the argument??

This world is so wrong at the moment.

[smokeyparkin]

John:

What needs to be rewritten in the New Testament that will change its message of peace?

That wasn't really the message during the crusades was it?

Now or then it doesn't matter, people still died because of man-made religion, manipulated for the purpose of control!!

[Aristarkos]

So why is he a Christian?

He said that it has more to do with his family traditions and social life than his true beliefs. Too bad. To leave backward traditions behind is quite liberating, and opens a new world of education, insights, and possibilities.

Surely a better way for him to approach this is to embrace all people, not their religions. Find out why certain Christians (or whoever) are ok with some things and others aren't.

The only route to Universal Love is by taking down the barriers and the biggest of all are the "set paths".

These set paths are wrong. A sensible individual should not be manipulated by the bible or the qu'ran – that is not the path to Universal Love, far to many people have died (Now and then) for it to be anything of substance and love... Its nothing but total control and it has been going on for years and once man-made religion dies out as we closer to a better understanding of our cosmos -- Universal Love will have to deal with another problem Politics!

How can anyone say they are left or right before they have even heard the argument??

This world is so wrong at the moment.

Agreed.

You will never succeed at getting at the truth if you think you know, ahead of time, what the truth ought to be.