Okay, Let's Cut To The Chase!

[POI]

Dear Christians of all flavor(s),

I trust it is no surprise there exists a populous here, which lay claim to 'atheism', 'deism', or maybe other... In a nutshell, for me, this ultimately means I do not believe any such claimed Christian God exists - trying though as I might.... Which-is-to-mean, I was raised in a Christian house hold. However, after much study, I cannot get myself to belief such a claimed agent actually exists. Chalk it up, ultimately, to the topic of 'divine hiddenness' I guess...?

It is also evident there exists devout 'Christians' in this arena, of all flavors, who may feel they are 'fighting the good fight'; by defending their belief(s)/faith/rationale in the assertion of the existence to the "Christian God".

That being said, I am laying down the gauntlet, so-to-speak... Some here, as well as outside of here, are as sure as anything, that not only does God exist, but the Christian God! Well, I politely disagree. Meaning, I don't believe the "Christian based" assertion/claim.

I can't imagine this request will be anything new. Nor, can I imagine that I will encounter any new sort of enlightenment. But, being this is a rather large and important topic; I will continue to search, optimistically, that there exists some sort of 'concrete evidence(s)' to demonstrate that not only a God exists ---> but also the Christian God.

For Debate:

Please demonstrate the mere existence of the Christian God?

[Miles]

He asks us to listen to his advice, which benefits us and for us to love him like a Father. He is offering eternal life to those who do. Never sick, not aging like now, never without, no war, fear, pain, death, greed, lying ,cheating, no more satan influences etc,etc,etc. So really its not so much to ask of us for a life like that.

Let us not forget that this incompetent, negligent Father is ultimately responsible for most of that (sickness, aging, fear, pain, death, Satan....) from his actions at the very beginning. To then turn around and offer eternal life in exchange for love is a real slap in the face. If he was sincere about that, he would front up and make the offer in person instead of hiding and relying on dodgy human intermediaries who are renowned for being greedy liars and cheats.

Being omnipotent God supposedly created Adam and Eve perfect, to live forever, never sick, nor aging like now, knowing only good (and this was the card God kept up his sleeve; keeping them ignorant of bad and not letting the two know they would soon be confronted by a not-so-good, crafty, old serpent) --He handed them that on a silver platter[.] Nice guy! [S]o they werent robots he asked them not to do a single thing except as he had already foreseen: fall for his accomplice Satan's ploy. Giving them a sense of free will to listen to his advice out of love and appreciation for all he gave to them free of charge, except for the trap they were about to fall into, which was the price they would be paying. And god asked them, "How much value is that?" Having no idea what God was talking about or what was going on they were left standing dumbstruck. Being omniscient, god knew a liar was about to come along who did 0 for them, they took his side, they chose mortals to know bad, not God. Just as god knew they would. Issues were raised against Gods sovereignty, so once and for all time all rebels are being rooted out and will not get eternal life. Exactly as god knew they would. God knows what is best for all concerned for all time, which is why he allowed sin to be brought into the world. No mortal does, which suited god just fine because he wasn't looking for truly perfect creatures at all, just those who would provide him with entertainment. God was bored and really needed a little excitement in his life. Hence the conspiracy between God and Satan to do just that; create flawed creatures who would always be at each other's throats somewhere in the world.

.

That is sick thinking that God just wanted to be entertained.

Then what do you think was god's actual reason for creating people? What was missing in his life that he felt it would be good to have people running around naked?

It also God a liar,

???????

Not a wise place to be standing, especially since this system is almost done and you are throwing away eternal life for this life and sick thinking.

I'll catch the next system when it comes around.

You arent the only one, satan has many fooled.

If I've been duped by Satan then how can I be held responsible for not catching on to his scheme? Wouldn't god have some responsibility for not giving me the ability to see past Satan's trickery? Of course he would.

I used to be angry at God, but taking in knowledge of truth changed that, Now i know 100% God is always correct, . . . .

As I've pointed out before, god has made mistakes. Mistakes he even admits to. So unless you're burying your head in the sand I don't know how you can say "God is always correct" and keep a straight face.

.

[POI]

The bible says the coming of Gods kingdom is good news. Those in fear of its arrival are most assuredly wicked in Gods view.

You have missed my point, again. I'm not asking you about the 'end times.' Nor, do I believe you when you do mention the 'end times.' You keep volunteering this 'information'. In my experience, this is what JW's do. They revel in the notion that the 'end is near'. But they keep getting it wrong, cough cough, -- Mr. Russell and friends. And I already know you want it to happen. But the harsh reality, is that you will spend the rest of your life waiting for something, which will never come to fruition.

[Diagoras]

Please demonstrate the mere existence of the Christian God?

From reviewing thirty seven pages’ worth of posts, I’ve learned:

• Someone once bought a raffle ticket

• There’s still some Jews left

• You can’t just ‘discover’ God

• It’s a personal choice for all of us to decide

• God reveals himself to those who love him and obey him*

• It was God’s wisdom, power and precise usage of science** and math that created all things

• God doesn’t waste his time

• Only God can say why he doesn’t cause ALL to be inexorably drawn to him

• Only the wicked have fear of Armageddon coming***

• Some people can’t use the Quote function to save their life

Sadly though, no actual evidence for any god.


* Wouldn’t he have to reveal himself first, though…?

** Which, according to some, is always open to interpretation.

*** Glad to be proved non-wicked by that measure.

[POI]

Sadly though, no actual evidence for any god.

I think it was established, early on, that this cannot be done. Chalk it up to another topic relying upon faith and apologetics.

* Wouldn’t he have to reveal himself first, though…?

** Which, according to some, is always open to interpretation.

*** Glad to be proved non-wicked by that measure.

[TRANSPONDER]

[Replying to kjw47 in post #358]

I always react well to Hellthreat

Being scared to believe doesnt work.

If you admit this openly, then please stop spewing out "doomesday prophecies" No one here probably believes you anyways.,,

The bible says the coming of Gods kingdom is good news. Those in fear of its arrival are most assuredly wicked in Gods view.

Especiaslly when wickedness is related more to beliefs than deeds. Kjw mate, we laugh at these empty threats.

Sadly though, no actual evidence for any god.

I think it was established, early on, that this cannot be done. Chalk it up to another topic relying upon faith and apologetics.

* Wouldn’t he have to reveal himself first, though…?

** Which, according to some, is always open to interpretation.

*** Glad to be proved non-wicked by that measure.

Yeah, and cutting to the chase, not a shred of evidence as to why we should believe any of this; though it is the cut to the chase, in a way; hellthreat is used to try to frighten the vulnerable into turning themselves over to Church Authority. Though as I recall, JW's (I think he's a JW) don't actually believe in Hell, so what they are t threatening us with I don't know. I suspect it resembles the Very Human system of perks for the Members, and exploitation of the Outsiders.

[kjw47]

Being scared to believe doesnt work.

If you admit this openly, then please stop spewing out "doomesday prophecies" No one here probably believes you anyways.,,

The bible says the coming of Gods kingdom is good news. Those in fear of its arrival are most assuredly wicked in Gods view.

Lol

Had to check in on this week's sermon.

The liar lies, and the preacher preaches.

You should try learning, then maybe can get eternal life if your heart is sincere.

[kjw47]

He asks us to listen to his advice, which benefits us and for us to love him like a Father. He is offering eternal life to those who do. Never sick, not aging like now, never without, no war, fear, pain, death, greed, lying ,cheating, no more satan influences etc,etc,etc. So really its not so much to ask of us for a life like that.

Let us not forget that this incompetent, negligent Father is ultimately responsible for most of that (sickness, aging, fear, pain, death, Satan....) from his actions at the very beginning. To then turn around and offer eternal life in exchange for love is a real slap in the face. If he was sincere about that, he would front up and make the offer in person instead of hiding and relying on dodgy human intermediaries who are renowned for being greedy liars and cheats.

Being omnipotent God supposedly created Adam and Eve perfect, to live forever, never sick, nor aging like now, knowing only good (and this was the card God kept up his sleeve; keeping them ignorant of bad and not letting the two know they would soon be confronted by a not-so-good, crafty, old serpent) --He handed them that on a silver platter[.] Nice guy! [S]o they werent robots he asked them not to do a single thing except as he had already foreseen: fall for his accomplice Satan's ploy. Giving them a sense of free will to listen to his advice out of love and appreciation for all he gave to them free of charge, except for the trap they were about to fall into, which was the price they would be paying. And god asked them, "How much value is that?" Having no idea what God was talking about or what was going on they were left standing dumbstruck. Being omniscient, god knew a liar was about to come along who did 0 for them, they took his side, they chose mortals to know bad, not God. Just as god knew they would. Issues were raised against Gods sovereignty, so once and for all time all rebels are being rooted out and will not get eternal life. Exactly as god knew they would. God knows what is best for all concerned for all time, which is why he allowed sin to be brought into the world. No mortal does, which suited god just fine because he wasn't looking for truly perfect creatures at all, just those who would provide him with entertainment. God was bored and really needed a little excitement in his life. Hence the conspiracy between God and Satan to do just that; create flawed creatures who would always be at each other's throats somewhere in the world.

.

That is sick thinking that God just wanted to be entertained.

Then what do you think was god's actual reason for creating people? What was missing in his life that he felt it would be good to have people running around naked?

It also God a liar,

???????

Not a wise place to be standing, especially since this system is almost done and you are throwing away eternal life for this life and sick thinking.

I'll catch the next system when it comes around.

You arent the only one, satan has many fooled.

If I've been duped by Satan then how can I be held responsible for not catching on to his scheme? Wouldn't god have some responsibility for not giving me the ability to see past Satan's trickery? Of course he would.

I used to be angry at God, but taking in knowledge of truth changed that, Now i know 100% God is always correct, . . . .

As I've pointed out before, god has made mistakes. Mistakes he even admits to. So unless you're burying your head in the sand I don't know how you can say "God is always correct" and keep a straight face.

.

God was responsible to you. He gave all his written word, he sent his son to die in your behalf. It wasnt a mistake God creating mankind, otherwise he could just destroy all of it just as easily as he created all of creation. You missed the part where God said it was all good what he created. He was sorry in the sense that he had to wipe out 99.9% of the human race. All mislead by satan and flesh desires.

[kjw47]

The bible says the coming of Gods kingdom is good news. Those in fear of its arrival are most assuredly wicked in Gods view.

You have missed my point, again. I'm not asking you about the 'end times.' Nor, do I believe you when you do mention the 'end times.' You keep volunteering this 'information'. In my experience, this is what JW's do. They revel in the notion that the 'end is near'. But they keep getting it wrong, cough cough, -- Mr. Russell and friends. And I already know you want it to happen. But the harsh reality, is that you will spend the rest of your life waiting for something, which will never come to fruition.

I know 100% it is getting close. this world will not improve, it will only keep getting worse. One reason is because greed filled hearts are in the power positions and are destroying the earth. They wont fix global warming, the economy's would collapse if they tried. It was said today--By raising the gas,oil prices, less would be used and help improve global warming= a pure lie. Because now the poorer countries are going back to burning coal which is much worse. And they knew that would occur. Corruption is in the ruling positions.

[kjw47]

[Replying to kjw47 in post #358]

I always react well to Hellthreat

Being scared to believe doesnt work.

If you admit this openly, then please stop spewing out "doomesday prophecies" No one here probably believes you anyways.,,

The bible says the coming of Gods kingdom is good news. Those in fear of its arrival are most assuredly wicked in Gods view.

Especiaslly when wickedness is related more to beliefs than deeds. Kjw mate, we laugh at these empty threats.

Sadly though, no actual evidence for any god.

I think it was established, early on, that this cannot be done. Chalk it up to another topic relying upon faith and apologetics.

* Wouldn’t he have to reveal himself first, though…?

** Which, according to some, is always open to interpretation.

*** Glad to be proved non-wicked by that measure.

Yeah, and cutting to the chase, not a shred of evidence as to why we should believe any of this; though it is the cut to the chase, in a way; hellthreat is used to try to frighten the vulnerable into turning themselves over to Church Authority. Though as I recall, JW's (I think he's a JW) don't actually believe in Hell, so what they are t threatening us with I don't know. I suspect it resembles the Very Human system of perks for the Members, and exploitation of the Outsiders.

Only blind guides that do not know God teach a literal place of eternal suffering. It was symbolic. The true God set before all-LIFE or DEATH(Deuteronomy 30:19) both will be everlasting. Actions prove it all. Words prove little.

[Miles]

He asks us to listen to his advice, which benefits us and for us to love him like a Father. He is offering eternal life to those who do. Never sick, not aging like now, never without, no war, fear, pain, death, greed, lying ,cheating, no more satan influences etc,etc,etc. So really its not so much to ask of us for a life like that.

Let us not forget that this incompetent, negligent Father is ultimately responsible for most of that (sickness, aging, fear, pain, death, Satan....) from his actions at the very beginning. To then turn around and offer eternal life in exchange for love is a real slap in the face. If he was sincere about that, he would front up and make the offer in person instead of hiding and relying on dodgy human intermediaries who are renowned for being greedy liars and cheats.

Being omnipotent God supposedly created Adam and Eve perfect, to live forever, never sick, nor aging like now, knowing only good (and this was the card God kept up his sleeve; keeping them ignorant of bad and not letting the two know they would soon be confronted by a not-so-good, crafty, old serpent) --He handed them that on a silver platter[.] Nice guy! [S]o they werent robots he asked them not to do a single thing except as he had already foreseen: fall for his accomplice Satan's ploy. Giving them a sense of free will to listen to his advice out of love and appreciation for all he gave to them free of charge, except for the trap they were about to fall into, which was the price they would be paying. And god asked them, "How much value is that?" Having no idea what God was talking about or what was going on they were left standing dumbstruck. Being omniscient, god knew a liar was about to come along who did 0 for them, they took his side, they chose mortals to know bad, not God. Just as god knew they would. Issues were raised against Gods sovereignty, so once and for all time all rebels are being rooted out and will not get eternal life. Exactly as god knew they would. God knows what is best for all concerned for all time, which is why he allowed sin to be brought into the world. No mortal does, which suited god just fine because he wasn't looking for truly perfect creatures at all, just those who would provide him with entertainment. God was bored and really needed a little excitement in his life. Hence the conspiracy between God and Satan to do just that; create flawed creatures who would always be at each other's throats somewhere in the world.

.

That is sick thinking that God just wanted to be entertained.

Then what do you think was god's actual reason for creating people? What was missing in his life that he felt it would be good to have people running around naked?

It also God a liar,

???????

Not a wise place to be standing, especially since this system is almost done and you are throwing away eternal life for this life and sick thinking.

I'll catch the next system when it comes around.

You arent the only one, satan has many fooled.

If I've been duped by Satan then how can I be held responsible for not catching on to his scheme? Wouldn't god have some responsibility for not giving me the ability to see past Satan's trickery? Of course he would.

I used to be angry at God, but taking in knowledge of truth changed that, Now i know 100% God is always correct, . . . .

As I've pointed out before, god has made mistakes. Mistakes he even admits to. So unless you're burying your head in the sand I don't know how you can say "God is always correct" and keep a straight face.

.

God was responsible to you. He gave all his written word, he sent his son to die in your behalf. It wasnt a mistake God creating mankind, otherwise he could just destroy all of it just as easily as he created all of creation. You missed the part where God said it was all good what he created. He was sorry in the sense that he had to wipe out 99.9% of the human race. All mislead by satan and flesh desires.

As I asked in post 361 and you never addressed.

1. Then what do you think was god's actual reason for creating people?

2. What was missing in his life that he felt it would be good to have people running around naked?

3. If I've been duped by Satan then how can I be held responsible for not catching on to his scheme?

4. Wouldn't god have some responsibility for not giving me the ability to see past Satan's trickery?

Looking for at least an honest attempt.
.