Where's God?

[POI]

Does he pop up in my dreams? Is he the one whom produces my goose-bumps? Is He the one giving me my "moral compass"? Is he only experienced during deep meditation? If I have enough faith, will he appear to me? But seriously. Where is he? I was a Christian for decades. I earnestly prayed for him to reach me, to no avail.

For debate: Why have I not felt his presence?

A) I never tried hard enough; lack faith
B) He does not want to reveal Himself to me (yet)
C) Evil is blocking the request(s)
D) I'm too dumb to realize he's reaching me
E) He's not really there at all <- Current conclusion

Do not answer yet. This topic has spawned from another unrelated topic. I decided to devote this large topic to itself. Below are some premises:

P1) does god exist? (dunno)
P2) does god want a relationship with all, especially the ones who seek him (apparently so)
P3) is god capable of communicating (apparently so)
P4) can god communicate his message in a way in which the recipient could no longer deny (apparently so)
P5) have I asked for this communication earnestly and repetitively (YES)
P6) does the Bible state god answers the call to all who seek him (YES)

At best, god has opted not to contact me YET. And this would be after decades of actively seeking him. Without any emotion, I'm logically left with 2 options.

A) God is not really there <- Current conclusion.
B) God is not adhering to his promise (yet).

[OneJack]

[Replying to POI in post #337]

God wants to teach us his will history through the Bible, his Book

You're peddling a lie here, Bruce! Never did God and Jesus teach that He teaches everyone through the Bible/scriptures. In fact, the Lord rebuked the Jewish leaders for thinking that they had life in the scriptures; hence, they do not want to come to Him so that they may have life. The real and eternally living Christ Jesus is the Pastor and Teacher in His flock across all ages, and therefore, every one of us must come to Him so that we may learn what we shall put into practice until the end to have salvation and eternal life with God in eternity.

If we will listen to him in his inspiration of its writers, who are prophets, apostles, and people who knew them personally.

Those writers, prophets, and people who knew the Lord Jesus in His incarnation are long gone and can no longer teach us. Don't you get that, Bruce? The Lord Jesus, real and forever living, is the only one who can teach us all without fail.

[OneJack]

[Replying to POI in post #337]

If he is going to impede upon our path,

Path to unrighteousness, per se. God is doing that so that we might reconsider returning to the path of righteousness, using the free will that God incorporated into us when He created mankind.

then just be a little more obvious about it. After decades, I have not noticed any god-driven impedance at all. Instead, just life happening. Again, if I never notice, then WHAT is the point? I haven't noticed anything, which would require a god at all.

Have you not sought the advice of someone for the worst problem that you have gone through in your whole life? Did life pass you by with a gold spoon in your mouth? Is your life always smooth sailing? What caused you to ask God to reach out to you, knowing you were already a Christian, as you claimed?

Time is running out.

I doubt! You're a hard-headed guy, completely under control by your own wisdom, and ignoring what God has been sending to you to make you come to your senses in realizing and seeing God is always with you, since He, alone, is the one who is behind in all the things that transpire in your life. You can't live this life on your own and enjoy everything you have if God is not the one who is behind all those things.

What the heck is he waiting for?

It would rather be, " What the heck are you waiting for?" It's an amazing paradox when you look too far for someone who is always with you.

If he is going to impede, then impede to where the skeptic will actually notice something.

He is, but in His own terms. If the skeptics do it their way till the end, the crossing of the Great Divide will surely change their firm stand [on skepticism] to 180 degrees, bearing a course of belief, but too late to reconcile everything they did wrong.

[POI]

[Replying to OneJack in post #342]

Your entire response is nonsense. I either notice his contact, or I do not. No amount of "stubbornness" would keep me from being made aware of his mere existence and presence. Again, think "Saul of Tarsus" or "doubting Thomas." If the Bible god has the capacity to contact people in a way in which they can no longer deny their presence, and he chooses not to, it is either because:

a) he chooses not to
b) he does not exist
I see no option c) in this equation?

Thus far, in applying Occam's Razor, option b) merits many less additional assumption(s).

[BruceLeiter]

[Replying to OneJack in post #341]

@OneJack, God inspired Paul to write that God "breathed" the Scriptures for our instruction. He also guided Peter to write that the prophets have written God's message:

2Ti 3:16  All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, 
2Ti 3:17  that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work. 
2Ti 4:1  I charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who is to judge the living and the dead, and by his appearing and his kingdom: 
2Ti 4:2  preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, and exhort, with complete patience and teaching. 

2Pe 1:16  For we did not follow cleverly devised myths when we made known to you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but we were eyewitnesses of his majesty. 
2Pe 1:17  For when he received honor and glory from God the Father, and the voice was borne to him by the Majestic Glory, “This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased,” 
2Pe 1:18  we ourselves heard this very voice borne from heaven, for we were with him on the holy mountain. 
2Pe 1:19  And we have the prophetic word more fully confirmed, to which you will do well to pay attention as to a lamp shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts, 
2Pe 1:20  knowing this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture comes from someone's own interpretation. 
2Pe 1:21  For no prophecy was ever produced by the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit. 

[OneJack]

[Replying to OneJack in post #341]

@OneJack, God inspired Paul to write that God "breathed" the Scriptures for our instruction. He also guided Peter to write that the prophets have written God's message:

2Ti 3:16  All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, 
2Ti 3:17  that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work. 
2Ti 4:1  I charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who is to judge the living and the dead, and by his appearing and his kingdom: 
2Ti 4:2  preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, and exhort, with complete patience and teaching. 

2Pe 1:16  For we did not follow cleverly devised myths when we made known to you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but we were eyewitnesses of his majesty. 
2Pe 1:17  For when he received honor and glory from God the Father, and the voice was borne to him by the Majestic Glory, “This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased,” 
2Pe 1:18  we ourselves heard this very voice borne from heaven, for we were with him on the holy mountain. 
2Pe 1:19  And we have the prophetic word more fully confirmed, to which you will do well to pay attention as to a lamp shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts, 
2Pe 1:20  knowing this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture comes from someone's own interpretation. 
2Pe 1:21  For no prophecy was ever produced by the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit. 

What's the matter with you, Bruce??? Don't you understand what the Lord Jesus is saying in these verses in the bible, to wit:

You study the Scriptures diligently because you think that in them you have eternal life. These are the very Scriptures that testify about me, yet you refuse to come to me to have life.

Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. 29 Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. 30 For my yoke is easy and my burden is light.

If Paul and Peter were pointing you to the bible, the Lord Jesus would point you only to Himself for you to have life and salvation. Listen and follow the Lord Jesus Christ only if you want to have salvation and eternal live and ignore all the rest. You're in good hands with Jesus Christ alone.

[OneJack]

[Replying to OneJack in post #342]

I either notice his contact, or I do not. No amount of "stubbornness" would keep me from being made aware of his mere existence and presence. Again, think "Saul of Tarsus" or "doubting Thomas." If the Bible god has the capacity to contact people in a way in which they can no longer deny their presence, and he chooses not to, it is either because:

a) he chooses not to
b) he does not exist
I see no option c) in this equation?

There you are with your 'stubborn mind' - options (a) and (b). If God were not in existence, POI would be non-existent too. Sadly, by your mode of reasoning, the time when you can no longer deny God's presence and existence will only be the time that you will cross the Great Divide, when everything is too late for you to reconcile all your mistakes here on earth.

Thus far, in applying Occam's Razor, option b) merits many less additional assumption(s).

But God's way is different; we do not have to guess or assume if we listen to Him in His terms.

[BruceLeiter]

[Replying to OneJack in post #341]

You keep repeating the verse about the leaders' use of the Scriptures, @OneJack, but it doesn't support your interpretation. Jesus criticized the WAY the leaders used the Old Testament, NOT their use of it.

They wanted the people to follow all the laws and their rules to gain God's love and forgiveness, which is misuse of the Scriptures. All the Old and New Testament commands are for people who have already come to trust in Jesus as the only way to the Father's acceptance, which is God's free gift. Then, God gives us the desire and ability to live according to his Word, the Bible:

Gen 15:6  And he believed the LORD, and he counted it to him as righteousness. 

Psa 119:10  With my whole heart I seek you; let me not wander from your commandments! 
Psa 119:11  I have stored up your word in my heart, that I might not sin against you. 

Those leaders trusted, instead, in their good works and those of the people to gain God's gift of life instead of trusting in the Messiah as their Redeemer. Jesus himself used the Scriptures to repel Satan's temptations in the desert, to enlighten the two disciples on the road to Emmaus, and to open the eyes of his closest disciples to his fulfillment of the Old Testament:

Luk 4:3  The devil said to him, “If you are the Son of God, command this stone to become bread.” 
Luk 4:4  And Jesus answered him, “It is written, ‘Man shall not live by bread alone.’” 

“To you I will give all this authority and their glory, for it has been delivered to me, and I give it to whom I will. 
Luk 4:7  If you, then, will worship me, it will all be yours.” 
Luk 4:8  And Jesus answered him, “It is written, “‘You shall worship the Lord your God, and him only shall you serve.’” 

Luk 24:25  And he said to them, “O foolish ones, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken! 
Luk 24:26  Was it not necessary that the Christ should suffer these things and enter into his glory?” 
Luk 24:27  And beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, he interpreted to them in all the Scriptures the things concerning himself. 

Luk 24:44  Then he said to them, “These are my words that I spoke to you while I was still with you, that everything written about me in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms must be fulfilled.” 
Luk 24:45  Then he opened their minds to understand the Scriptures, 
Luk 24:46  and said to them, “Thus it is written, that the Christ should suffer and on the third day rise from the dead, 
Luk 24:47  and that repentance for the forgiveness of sins should be proclaimed in his name to all nations, beginning from Jerusalem. 
Luk 24:48  You are witnesses of these things. 

[POI]

There you are with your 'stubborn mind' - options (a) and (b).

It's called logic.

If God were not in existence, POI would be non-existent too.

Committing the (argument from personal incredulity) or (begging the question) <is/are> not going to win you any debate points OneJack.

Sadly, by your mode of reasoning, the time when you can no longer deny God's presence and existence will only be the time that you will cross the Great Divide, when everything is too late for you to reconcile all your mistakes here on earth.

And yet, he apparently has the ability to make his presence clear at ANY time before this. He must really like to see many more burn forever.

But God's way is different; we do not have to guess or assume if we listen to Him in His terms.

Hmm, so god prefers that his followers defy known logic, for which we use for all other aspects of our lives?

[OneJack]

[Replying to OneJack in post #341]

You keep repeating the verse about the leaders' use of the Scriptures, @OneJack, but it doesn't support your interpretation. Jesus criticized the WAY the leaders used the Old Testament, NOT their use of it.

What kind of comprehension have you gotten yourself into? The words of the Lord saying, 'You study the Scriptures diligently because you think that in them you have eternal life. These are the very Scriptures that testify about me, 40 yet you refuse to come to me to have life,' are the same words you're directly holding on to right now for the salvation of your soul, aren't they/you? You seem to have forgotten that the salvation and eternal life for the Jewish leaders is the same salvation and eternal life for Bruce today, that is, by coming to Jesus instead of believing in the scriptures. What do you think will grant your soul inheritance of salvation and eternal life if you put your faith not in the bible?

They wanted the people to follow all the laws and their rules to gain God's love and forgiveness,

Oh boy, Bruce, where have you gone off to? The Lord was saying that the Jewish leaders didn't want to come to Him for life because they thought that they had eternal life in the scriptures [which testify to Him], as you now think about for yourself, too, don't you? The issue here is the wrong notion of the Jewish leaders about the scriptures - thinking they have eternal life in the scriptures that caused them not to come to Jesus, which is clearly evident in you right now. You keep on holding on to the bible instead of the real and eternally living Christ Jesus, who is beside you 24/7, though you do not see Him momentarily. You don't understand till to date that you/I/they have no eternal life in the bible, as the Lord emphasized to the Jewish leaders then.

which is misuse of the Scriptures.

Tell that to yourself by your misuse of the scriptures above. Focus on the issue alone, Bruce.

All the Old and New Testament commands are for people who have already come to trust in Jesus as the only way to the Father's acceptance, which is God's free gift. Then, God gives us the desire and ability to live according to his Word, the Bible:

Gen 15:6  And he believed the LORD, and he counted it to him as righteousness. 

Psa 119:10  With my whole heart I seek you; let me not wander from your commandments! 
Psa 119:11  I have stored up your word in my heart, that I might not sin against you. 

Those leaders trusted, instead, in their good works and those of the people to gain God's gift of life instead of trusting in the Messiah as their Redeemer. Jesus himself used the Scriptures to repel Satan's temptations in the desert, to enlighten the two disciples on the road to Emmaus, and to open the eyes of his closest disciples to his fulfillment of the Old Testament:

Luk 4:3  The devil said to him, “If you are the Son of God, command this stone to become bread.” 
Luk 4:4  And Jesus answered him, “It is written, ‘Man shall not live by bread alone.’” 

“To you I will give all this authority and their glory, for it has been delivered to me, and I give it to whom I will. 
Luk 4:7  If you, then, will worship me, it will all be yours.” 
Luk 4:8  And Jesus answered him, “It is written, “‘You shall worship the Lord your God, and him only shall you serve.’” 

Luk 24:25  And he said to them, “O foolish ones, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken! 
Luk 24:26  Was it not necessary that the Christ should suffer these things and enter into his glory?” 
Luk 24:27  And beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, he interpreted to them in all the Scriptures the things concerning himself. 

Luk 24:44  Then he said to them, “These are my words that I spoke to you while I was still with you, that everything written about me in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms must be fulfilled.” 
Luk 24:45  Then he opened their minds to understand the Scriptures, 
Luk 24:46  and said to them, “Thus it is written, that the Christ should suffer and on the third day rise from the dead, 
Luk 24:47  and that repentance for the forgiveness of sins should be proclaimed in his name to all nations, beginning from Jerusalem. 
Luk 24:48  You are witnesses of these things. 

Bruce, wittingly and unwittingly, you continue to fulfill in your life John 5:39-40, as well as the continuous misuse of biblical passages. The whole Bible is a testimony to Jesus, so that we may know He is real and eternally living, and that we have come to Him so that we may have life in Him. All the commands that we have to put into practice today must come only from the Lord Jesus Christ, not from the bible.

[OneJack]

There you are with your 'stubborn mind' - options (a) and (b).

It's called logic.

The logic of men vis-à-vis the logic of God, in this issue, is not the same; the former seems to prevail in this world, as a puff up; hence, the hardened heart, but adds nothing to the benefit of our soul, contrary to the latter, which is a never-ending path of righteousness unto eternity because of obedience to God.

If God were not in existence, POI would be non-existent too.

Committing the (argument from personal incredulity) or (begging the question) <is/are> not going to win you any debate points OneJack.

I'm stating a fact from God, which is foolishness to skeptics, whose aim is to conquer everything with their own wisdom.

.
Sadly, by your mode of reasoning, the time when you can no longer deny God's presence and existence will only be the time that you will cross the Great Divide, when everything is too late for you to reconcile all your mistakes here on earth.

And yet, he apparently has the ability to make his presence clear at ANY time before this.

Yes, indeed, He has, without fail. See what you will have to undergo before crossing the Great Divide.
From the Q&A tutorial lessons from the Lord:

What happens to people when they die?
***There are two types of death: sudden death and gradual death. When someone is about to die, angels or deceased loved ones come to escort them. They are placed in a certain place until Judgment Day.

This is fair and just, the last chance for the stubborn mind. You will literally see these personalities spiritually, as your eyes were opened to the spiritual world when you were born, a scenario that you can't deny exists before your eyes.

He must really like to see many more burn forever.

The last chance is always there, where seconds before death strikes become a golden opportunity to turn to God at once.

But God's way is different; we do not have to guess or assume if we listen to Him in His terms.

Hmm, so god prefers that his followers defy known logic,

It's always 'in His terms,' not in POI's terms.

for which we use for all other aspects of our lives?

Lives in the flesh are only on this earth; they are different from lives in the spirit world. Whether we like it or not, the spirit prevails over the flesh in due time, and it is unto eternity to eternity.