Is God evil?

[Compassionist]

There are many verses in the Bible about God's predestination. https://www.openbible.info/topics/predestination Why would a good God predestine anyone to do evil? Surely, a good God would predestine all to do good? Does the existence of evil prove that God is evil? Surely, a good God would have made all living things to be autotrophs instead of making some autotrophs, some herbivores, some carnivores, some omnivores, and some parasites? Here are some examples of evil events which caused or are causing suffering, deaths, and injustices:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_extinction_events
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_epidemics
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_n ... death_toll
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_famines
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_g ... death_toll
https://thevegancalculator.com/animal-slaughter

[Compassionist]

[Replying to Compassionist in post #328]

I am convinced that the Biblical God is imaginary and does much more evil than good, given his words and actions according to the Bible itself.

Then any answer to your question "Is (the Bible) God evil?" Is irrelevant.

If anyone can prove that the Biblical God is real and good, I am open to evidence that proves such a claim. No, the Bible is not evidence of God's existence and goodness. I have not yet received such answers, and such answers would not be irrelevant.

[William]

[Replying to Compassionist in post #328]

I am convinced that the Biblical God is imaginary and does much more evil than good, given his words and actions according to the Bible itself.

Then any answer to your question "Is (the Bible) God evil?" Is irrelevant.

If anyone can prove that the Biblical God is real and good, I am open to evidence that proves such a claim.

When you say "prove with evidence" do you expect absolutes?

No, the Bible is not evidence of God's existence and goodness.

When you say "God's existence" are you referring to the bible God specifically or open to broader theistic thinking on the subject?
Because I did offer some, but you kindly rejected it as unscientific.

I have not yet received such answers, and such answers would not be irrelevant.

Here the part where intellectual honesty comes into it. If indeed you are insisting on proof which can be scientifically verified through the science of physics, what gives you any impression that such evidence (whatever that might be) will be forthcoming. One branch of that science even sidesteps the idea that consciousness is evident in other animals, let alone plant life. How do you reconcile trust in such science about matters of existing within a created thing or of the nature of said created thing?

[William]

There are many verses in the Bible about God's predestination. https://www.openbible.info/topics/predestination Why would a good God predestine anyone to do evil? Surely, a good God would predestine all to do good?

In the link provided, most of the verses are from the old section of the Bible.

It is to those I will focus on in this post.

Proverbs 16:4 ESV
The Lord has made everything for its purpose, even the wicked for the day of trouble.

I have been pointing to this re my poetic world view re the planet itself being Sentient - as in self aware et al.

The verse above shows me 2 main things. That it is written from a humans point of view and that it is accepted by that human, that all things created are from this particular God.
It does not say that the God isn't a sentient planet that the writer is connected with. Even so, one can see clearly enough that it might well could be, as certain any human could connect the words with the goings on re said planet.

The writer acknowledges that they see in this God, evidence of intelligent purposeful handiwork...

Jeremiah 1:5 ESV
“Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, and before you were born I consecrated you; I appointed you a prophet to the nations.”

Now this is more direct - like my UICDSystem, implying by its first person narrative, that this God is speaking/voicing directly and the writer is recording that.

One could expect that if the planet were sentient, and at least powerful enough to direct events related to it, then there would be at least one way (likely more) that it would be able to transmit its voice into those direction, and giving directives to those who understood such things and utilize them.

This particular voicing acknowledges prior events that the humans do not have access to under normal circumstance.
The voicing isn't just declaring our prior existence and agreement but does that in a way that only those who engage with said speaker of said voice, will come to understand as "most likely true" as it were.

Mostly we humans stumble through life in a befudded manner. I certainly have. So in that sense I can understand why the Voice has to remind the listener of "events leading up to" the integration of human and planet mind.
It is a reminder to the listener. Does that mean it will be taken seriously by the listener? In most cases, yes, it does.

Is there a choice? Because if there isn't then we can agree that predestination is a thing...

Exodus 33:19 ESV
And he said, “I will make all my goodness pass before you and will proclaim before you my name ‘The Lord.’ And I will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will show mercy on whom I will show mercy.

This is more revelation of how the patterns work. The listener hears what is being engaged with, and has to learn from that how to trust the voicing - and the voicing tells the listener to look for the signs they are not going bonkers and what is happening is real within the real...

THe verse is saying most succinctly that if the listener can see any goodness in the world they exist in, the attribute that also to "The Lord".
What this does is reveal a pattern that remains unseen to those not specifically looking for it.
It also requires that the listener sort out in themselve just what the heck "good" and "evil" are, because it isn;t all that obvious...

The verse also includes positives - "goodness" "grace" "mercy".

My understanding is that this is a reflective experiment - we are Her children, but who is She really? A monster and mean at that? Something else? How do we discover such? What do we do with any such discovery?

Isaiah 46:10 ESV
Declaring the end from the beginning and from ancient times things not yet done, saying, ‘My counsel shall stand, and I will accomplish all my purpose,’

This is a bold statement by any stretch of the imagination.

Specific to predictive evidence.

It fits with my worldview where I shared that dive into what a planet entity like the earth would "be like" right from the go get. How the evidence fits. Dinosaurs to man and all things inbetween. Quite a significant amount of knowledge therein. The question being "what is the purpose being accomplished, how does one get answers/counsel on that, and is it anything to to with what we - the humanities - are currently experiencing? I have already listed a couple of things re that - specifically the age of tech we are in, and the use of humans to create something in their own image, which might have something to do with that particular "accomplished purpose" -

Psalm 65:4 ESV
Blessed is the one you choose and bring near, to dwell in your courts! We shall be satisfied with the goodness of your house, the holiness of your temple!

That's an exclamation from someone who knows the effect the Speaker has on those who listen.

The reflective quality is in the nuance that the one doing the choosing isn't just "The Lord" because an acceptance has to be achieved both ways for the integration to work to that point. It sound easy peasy because the verse is an reflection of process. Hindsight. Shorthand in that it does not give specifics on process, just results.

eta
AI: A user named William responds to a question about whether God is evil by analyzing specific Bible verses concerning predestination. He argues that these verses can be interpreted through a “poetic worldview” where the Earth itself is a sentient, planetary entity (which he calls “God”).

His main points are:

The verses describe a God with a purposeful plan, which he aligns with the idea of a sentient planet directing events.

He suggests biblical narratives of God “voicing” directives are compatible with a planet communicating with and guiding humans.

He sees the concept of predestination not as evidence of an evil God, but as part of a “reflective experiment” where humans must discover the nature of this planetary entity and their role in its purpose.

Ultimately, William re-frames the question from “Is God evil?” to a philosophical inquiry into the nature of a sentient Earth and humanity’s place within its domain.

From Myth to Structure
Reuniting the Frame with the Field

[Compassionist]

[Replying to William in post #332]

Thank you, William - that’s a fair question.

By “evidence,” I don’t mean absolute proof (which belongs to mathematics), but independently verifiable data - something that, in principle, could confirm or disconfirm the claim for any honest investigator, regardless of personal belief.

If the Biblical God (or any creator) truly interacts with the physical world - speaks, acts, performs miracles, answers prayers - then those interactions should leave some observable, measurable, or statistically significant trace. So far, we have none that survive controlled testing. That’s why the scientific method remains our best filter: not because it knows everything, but because it corrects itself when wrong.

I’m open to any evidence - scientific, historical, or experiential - provided it’s publicly testable and not dependent on private revelation. The same standard applies to all truth claims, whether about Yahweh, Allah, Krishna, or Gaia.

Regarding consciousness in other animals: science doesn’t “sidestep” that - it’s cautious, but converging evidence from neurology and behavior indicates that many animals do have forms of awareness. The claim that the universe itself is conscious, however, goes far beyond that evidence.

If you have a type of evidence that meets these criteria, I’d genuinely like to examine it.

[Compassionist]

[Replying to William in post #333]

Thank you, William. I appreciate your creative and poetic reinterpretation. Your vision of Earth as a sentient being - a “Mother” guiding her children through evolutionary learning - is certainly more compassionate than the Biblical model of a deity who predestines people for destruction.

But it seems to me that this reinterpretation quietly concedes my central point:
if we take the Bible’s own depiction of God literally, it describes a being who both creates moral agents and then predestines some of them to do evil or to be condemned (e.g., Proverbs 16:4; Romans 9:22–23; Isaiah 45:7). That’s impossible to reconcile with omnibenevolence.

Your planetary reinterpretation resolves that tension only by replacing the Biblical deity with a different concept altogether - an immanent, evolving consciousness rather than a perfect, omnipotent lawgiver. That’s philosophically interesting, but it means we’re no longer talking about the Biblical God, only about a pantheistic or panpsychic Earth-mind.

I respect the metaphor, but my critique targets the internal moral logic of the Bible itself. If the text is taken at face value, predestination to evil implies moral incoherence in its deity.
If the text is read metaphorically, as you propose, then “God” ceases to be a moral agent at all - just a vast process, neither good nor evil.

Either way, the traditional theistic claim that “God is perfectly good” doesn’t survive the evidence.

[William]

[Replying to Compassionist in post #334]

If you have a type of evidence that meets these criteria, I’d genuinely like to examine it.

Not only do I think I have evidence particular to my world view, but I continue to share that evidence in the links I have provided herein.

Have you genuinely examine the evidence I have so far provided?

[William]

[Replying to Compassionist in post #335]

That’s impossible to reconcile with omnibenevolence.

Why are you even trying to "reconcile" that with "omnibenevolence" since we have already agreed that and omni-being would create nothing?

Are you arguing that the Bible God is somehow unreservedly portrayed as this fictional being?

I think I have already pointed out that while a sentient planet entity with so much past experience to draw upon, might appear in relation to the humanities as "omni" it is still overreach on the part of the humanities to go claiming that the Bible tells it that way.

Even in the first chapters, the God is wondering where Adam and Eve are hiding. Does that sound to you like someone who wants the reader to think of it as all knowing?

[Compassionist]

[Replying to Compassionist in post #334]

If you have a type of evidence that meets these criteria, I’d genuinely like to examine it.

Not only do I think I have evidence particular to my world view, but I continue to share that evidence in the links I have provided herein.

Have you genuinely examine the evidence I have so far provided?

Some of your links don't show me the content. They say: "Content not viewable in your region." Can you please copy and paste into a post on this forum which evidence you want me to examine? Thank you.

[Compassionist]

[Replying to William in post #337]

That’s a fair observation, William, and I think you’ve actually pinpointed one of the central tensions in the text.

If the Biblical God were truly omniscient and omnibenevolent, there would be no need to ask “Where are you, Adam?” (Genesis 3:9) or to regret creating humanity (Genesis 6:6). Those moments reveal a God who learns, reacts, and changes His mind - traits of a powerful but finite agent, not of an all-knowing or perfectly good being.

So you’re right that the Bible itself doesn’t consistently depict an omni-being. The problem is that later theology projects those attributes onto this character and then asks us to see Him as morally perfect. That’s what I find impossible to reconcile with the violent and contradictory actions attributed to Him.

If we interpret the text mythologically - as you do, seeing the divine as a sentient planetary or cosmic consciousness - then we’re no longer talking about the Biblical deity at all, but a completely different metaphysical model. I’m open to those interpretations, but I think it’s important to distinguish them:

The Biblical narrative portrays a morally mixed, emotionally reactive God.
Classical theism claims that this same being is omnibenevolent, omniscient, and omnipotent.
Those two portrayals simply don’t match.

That’s why I conclude that, within the Bible itself, the deity behaves more like a powerful tribal ruler than an all-good, all-knowing, and all-powerful creator.

[William]

[Replying to Compassionist in post #334]

If you have a type of evidence that meets these criteria, I’d genuinely like to examine it.

Not only do I think I have evidence particular to my world view, but I continue to share that evidence in the links I have provided herein.

Have you genuinely examine the evidence I have so far provided?

Some of your links don't show me the content. They say: "Content not viewable in your region." Can you please copy and paste into a post on this forum which evidence you want me to examine? Thank you.

Probably not. The posts that contain the evidence can be quite long.

search..."substack content not viewable in some regions?"

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