Job 12: Is God active in the Natural World?

[Masterblaster]

Hello

Job12:
7 But ask now the beasts, and they shall teach thee; and the fowls of the air, and they shall tell thee:
8 Or speak to the earth, and it shall teach thee: and the fishes of the sea shall declare unto thee.
9 Who knoweth not in all these that the hand of the Lord hath wrought this?
10 In whose hand is the soul of every living thing, and the breath of all mankind

Somebody mentioned an Evolution phobia among Christians. What about a complete nature phobia?

Is God still turning up for work in our natural world?
(the best of Biblical Scripture states that he is).

Do you detect God in the natural world?

Why is this aspect of God largely ommitted from doctrine and discussion?
Is the mystical more attractive than the real?
Is Job correct in stating an awareness of God in all of creation?
Your opinion on this matter, please!

[Masterblaster]

Hello JehovahsWitness

Thank You for participating and contributing to this topic. Your leadership show a deep awareness of environmental issues. So does the Pope.
The problem displays itself when your doctrinal absolutes generate fatalistic doom. You appear unable to take the next step.

I see it like this...the more preservation, the more clearer is the image of God. People are erasing our history with God. This is happening now. You see it but you vote by your lack of assertion. This is an observation and not any sort of specific criticism. I commend what your faith does in so far as it does it.

Here is an example of what causes my exasperation. From JW material...

"Readers of the Bible, however, can be reassured by the Creator’s promise found at Revelation 11:18. There it states that he will soon “bring to ruin those ruining the earth.” The planet’s natural ecosystems will then be restored for the everlasting benefit of mankind."

I do not want to wait that long!

[JehovahsWitness]

The problem displays itself when your doctrinal absolutes generate fatalistic doom.

The only thing "doomed" is human governments and their efforts to eradicate all threats to the planet earth, forever. Such a total solution is simply beyond human capabilities.

This does not mean honest efforts are not commendable but thus far the earth's problems have not been resolved and there is no indication they will be by human efforts alone. After decades of talks, treaties and summits many experts declare the earth to be at breaking point. They declare the need for more ... talks, treaties and summits

The facts are that the leaders of this world have failed to attain the international cooperation and financial commitment to effectuate suffcient change to end all pollution, stop forever the exploitation of earths resources and permanently eradicate the destruction of the earth's ecosysterm.

Those that believe in a man made solution based on humans promises are displaying just as much faith (if not more) than any bible believing Christian.


==================================================

• “I believe that continued pollution of the earth, if unchecked, will eventually destroy the fitness of this planet as a place for human life. . . . The difficulty lay not in scientific ignorance, but in willful greed.” - Professor Barry Commoner , American cellular biologist & politician

• "the battle for the world's environmental survival is, at this moment, lost." - Michael Benfield, a co-founders The Green Party

• “Our planet is still in the emergency room.” - António Guterres, secretary-general of the United Nations, November 19, 2022

• “The world remains on the brink of climate catastrophe.”—Mary Robinson, former president of Ireland and former UN High Commissioner for Human Rights, November 20, 2022.

FURTHER READING : Aware Magazine : No. 1 2023 | Can Our Planet Survive?​—Reasons for Hope
https://www.jw.org/en/library/magazines/awake-no1-2023/

RELATED POSTS

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Can human efforts alone save the planet?
viewtopic.php?p=1142992#p1142992

To learn more please go to other posts related to

THE PLANET EARTH, .GOD'S KINGDOM and ... THE ENVIRONMENT

[Masterblaster]

Hello JehovahsWitness

You say - "Those that believe in a man made solution based on humans promises are displaying just as much faith (if not more) than any bible believing Christian."
-------

I totally agree with this. Here is the doctrinal problem , in a nutshell.

"In theological terms, nature is a form of “general revelation”. That is to say, nature reveals truths to us about God because He created it; his fingerprints are on it and his character influenced what He made. Nature is not as specific as the revelation God has given us through the Scriptures and Jesus."

As long as Christians stick to this line they will continue to spectate as their God is demolished.

[JehovahsWitness]

Here is the doctrinal problem , in a nutshell.

"In theological terms, nature is a form of “general revelation”. That is to say, nature reveals truths to us about God because He created it; his fingerprints are on it and his character influenced what He made. Nature is not as specific as the revelation God has given us through the Scriptures and Jesus."

What is problematic in the above statement?

As long as Christian's stick to this line they will continue to spectate as their God is demolished.

I don't see any evidence of "God [being] demolished" since I believe Almighty God to be omnipotent and utterly indestructible. Faith in God may be decreasing in the world (and even that I think is debatable ) but that has nothing to do with the above sources of revelation and their effectiveness.

[Masterblaster]

Hello JehovahsWitness

Answer the OP questions?
is God turning up for work every day or did he create creation to be self-governing under the stewardship of man. Is he the King in the parable who will come back to check progress later?

Can you actually watch God work or can you watch his works work?
Do you agree with Job 12 when it states that creation can feel itself working within God. Is he talking far fetched nonsense, in your opinion?

Job 12
9 Who knoweth not in all these that the hand of the Lord hath wrought this?
10 In whose hand is the soul of every living thing, and the breath of all mankind

According to Jesus, God is out every day feeding birds.
Behold the fowls of the air: for they sow not, neither. do they reap, nor gather into barns; yet your heavenly. Father feedeth them.

[1213]

One can even argue that things are not declining but getting better. Evidence is that life is better in health, lifestyle, length of life, education, infant survival, quality of life and indeed morals.

Of course, if you think it is better, if less people can calculate and read and more people are harmed with production that pollutes environment and food.... ...you have an interesting opinion. I disagree with it.

[JehovahsWitness]

is God turning up for work every day or did he create creation to be self-governing under the stewardship of man [?]

Yes.

JOHN 5:17-18 (NIV)

In his defense Jesus said to them, “My Father is always at his work to this very day, and I too am working.”

... did [GOD] create creation to be self-governing under the stewardship of man [?]

Yes.

PSALM 8

You gave him [humans] dominion over the works of your hands, You have put everything under his feet

Can you actually watch God work ...?

No. Not literaly since God is invisible to humans (see John 1:18)

Can you actually ... watch his works work?

Yes

[JehovahsWitness]

JOB 12:9, 10 - NWT

Who among all these does not know that the hand of Jehovah has done this? In his hand is the life of every living thing, and the spirit of every human

.

Job 12 verse 9 refers to God's creative works. The expression " the hand of Jehovah has done this" means that by his own power all creation came into existence and continues to exist.

Is he [JOB] talking far fetched nonsense, in your opinion?

No.

Do you agree with Job 12 [verses 9, 10] ...?

Yes.

Do you agree with Job 12 when it states that creation can feel itself working within God.

Job 12 doesn't say that (see above)

[JehovahsWitness]

According to Jesus, God is out every day feeding birds.

Behold the fowls of the air: for they sow not, neither. do they reap, nor gather into barns; yet your heavenly. Father feedeth them.

Jesus didnt say the words "out every day" in this passage.

MATTHEW 6:26 - NWT

Observe intently the birds of heaven; they do not sow seed or reap or gather into storehouses, yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not worth more than they are?

God "feeds" birds in that he has designed and created a planet capable of producing enough food to sustain an abondance of both human and animal life.

To learn more please go to other posts related to...

.THE PURPOSE OF LIFE, ANIMALS and ... THE EARTHLY PARSDISE

[JehovahsWitness]

... is he the King in the parable who will come back to check progress later?

Which parabole are you referring to? Do you have a reference?