Do you really care that I am going to hell?

[Cmass]

I don't think you really believe I will fry in Hell for being an Atheist. I don't think you really truly believe any of your non-believing family will either. I think deep down, you know it just isn't true.

If you do believe they will all fry and are not doing absolutely everything in your power to stop it, I would suggest that you are a very cold, dispassionate person. If you really believed your dearly beloved mother was going to burn in hell right next to Cmass and Charles Manson then you would stop at nothing to convince her to accept Jesus. You would not just gently encourage, you would be emotionally and perhaps even physically engaged on a daily and hourly basis. You most certainly would not be reading this silly OP right now. Not if you REALLY cared.

Think about it. If you saw your mother being beaten by someone on the street, would you stop to help save her? Would you put your own life at risk to keep her from drowning? Is there anything you would not do to help her? OK, what about eternal torture in hell? Doesn't this concern you? What about all the other people in your life who are going to hell? Doesn't this leave you feeling devastated? If I believed there was a hell and that so many people would be going - especially any of my friends or family - I would be in constant agony myself and would devote my life to stopping it. Or, I would be numb.

Does your knowledge that so many people will be in eternal torture bother you very much on a daily basis?

This OP came about after reading commentary by some of our more conservative Christian friends in here. Some seem to have no real problem with all us atheists burning in hell forever. Granted, there are probably some personal anger issues involved but still, I have always been uneasy with how casual many Christians are when it comes to discussing eternal damnation. Some get more upset over running over a kitty than the eternal torture of their best friend.

Nonetheless, I give most the benefit of the doubt: I don't think they are really that cold. I just don't think they really believe as much in the hell concept as they report.

[Zzyzx]

Holy run-on sentence Batman! 1,079 characters (187 words) without a period.

And without making any sense.

Just like the unbelievers do every weekend at NFL, NBA, MLB, NHL, PGA, NASCAR, HOLLYWOOD, MUSICIANS, WRITERS, childs games grown men do who are getting paid more than you to play child's games and you worship them and throw money at them and clap for them and shout for them and worship them.

Are you saying that you are a sports fan and celebrity worshiper, Mr. Biker? I notice that sports and stock car racing are big in the Bible Belt. Is that because those “red-neck, fundamentalist, Atheists” from the area promote such activities? Is it true that some Christians are involved in sports and stock cars and participants or spectators?

[Zzyzx]

I said salvation and eternal life is being given to us ahead of our death (and this is certain) and I do say now that same are conditional with the Lord in the sense that we have to be always subservient to the Lord so that we may not lose them when we die, otherwise hell is waiting out there for us.

You SAY many things about gods and eternal life; however, you are a little short on providing justification acceptable to those with whom you converse. Biblical quotes do not convince Non-Christians much as Koran quotes do not convince Christians. (Is that a difficult concept?)

Being "subservient to the lord" may become very difficult at any time in life. I personally knew quite well a VERY, VERY Christian man whose life "went to pieces" and he "lost his faith" (wife died, cheated out of retirement, friends turned away, lost his health, etc). He died as a bitter, resentful old man who was very angry at the god that he had wasted time worshiping all those years -- and the church to which he had donated large amounts of money that he needed later in life.

The same sort of things can happen to anyone -- and few can say how they will respond under adverse circumstances that might be overwhelming. Faith may NOT get one through and "heaven" may not await (though wishful thinking must be comforting for those who need comforting).

[Easyrider]

Zzyzx: “When you understand why you dismiss all the other gods you will understand why I dismiss yours." Stephen F. Roberts

Roberts is lost. Show me one other religious work as credibly prophetic as the Bible?

[McCulloch]

Show me one other religious work as credibly prophetic as the Bible?

We're straying off topic. Let's take that idea to a new thread.

[Zzyzx]

Zzyzx: “When you understand why you dismiss all the other gods you will understand why I dismiss yours." Stephen F. Roberts

Roberts is lost. Show me one other religious work as credibly prophetic as the Bible?

Discussion of my signature is not appropriate in a thread discussing, "Do you really care that I am going to hell?"

Is discussion of a person's signature the level of discussion / debate with which you are capable or comfortable? Thank you for defining yourself.

[twobitsmedia]

Zzyzx: “When you understand why you dismiss all the other gods you will understand why I dismiss yours." Stephen F. Roberts

Roberts is lost. Show me one other religious work as credibly prophetic as the Bible?

Discussion of my signature is not appropriate in a thread discussing, "Do you really care that I am going to hell?"

Is discussion of a person's signature the level of discussion / debate with which you are capable or comfortable? Thank you for defining yourself.

If one objects to having their comments to become the subject of an OP they evidently do not understand the realities of Internet forums (or reality in general). Perhaps it would be good practice to not say anything that you would not want to have appear in an OP.

On any of these issues, Harry Truman offered good advice, "If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen". I am not offering that as advice personally to anyone here.

[Confused]

I can be of help by telling you how you can escape hell by receiving God's free gift of eternal life through Jesus the Christ.

Are you honestly so certain you aren't going to hell? Before you answer, I might remind you that we are all sinners. As such, none of us can be certain of our fate. For if we were, tell me, would we not just be practicing another form of arrogance? Mother Theresa wouldn't even give certainty to her fate. Has your life been so much more faith following than hers?

Some Christian beliefs presented here (and elsewhere) guarantee "heaven" strictly on the basis of BELIEF. Sins apparently do not matter. Just BELIEVE in the "savior" and you get a free ticket to "eternal bliss".

Mother Theresa probably did not expect a free ride for simply believing -- but thought that one's actions count.

I see I have been missing a rather lengthy and contentious debate.


On the issue of being certain about going to heaven.

The Sheep and the Goats
31"When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his throne in heavenly glory. 32All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.
34"Then the King will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.'

37"Then the righteous will answer him, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?'

40"The King will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.'

41"Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.'

44"They also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?'

45"He will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.'

46"Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."

This passage says several things to me.

One is that there will be those who have deceived themselves into thinking they will be in heaven when in fact they will be going elsewhere.

Similarly, it seems possible based on this passage that some who were not even contemplating heaven as a possiblity will be there. They did not explicitly do anything for the Lord, but did act charitably and unselfishly to 'the least of my brothers.' For this, they are receiving their eternal reward.




Thirdly, note that it is actions not belief that result in eternal reward in this passage.

I started an offshoot thread to avoid taking Cmasses off topic. Any chance you could repost it there? I have some comments I would like to make.

[Zzyzx]

Zzyzx: “When you understand why you dismiss all the other gods you will understand why I dismiss yours." Stephen F. Roberts

Roberts is lost. Show me one other religious work as credibly prophetic as the Bible?

Discussion of my signature is not appropriate in a thread discussing, "Do you really care that I am going to hell?"

Is discussion of a person's signature the level of discussion / debate with which you are capable or comfortable? Thank you for defining yourself.

If one objects to having their comments to become the subject of an OP they evidently do not understand the realities of Internet forums (or reality in general). Perhaps it would be good practice to not say anything that you would not want to have appear in an OP.

On any of these issues, Harry Truman offered good advice, "If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen". I am not offering that as advice personally to anyone here.

There is a "tiny" difference that might have escaped notice of my attempted detractor.

I started a NEW thread to address comments made by Twobitsmedia (to which he objected but evidently could not muster a coherent argument).

It is inappropriate to derail an existing thread to discuss someone's signature as is being done in this thread.

Evidently when one has weak arguments they must nitpick rather than even attempt to present valid arguments -- Thank you again for the demonstration.

[Easyrider]

Zzyzx: “When you understand why you dismiss all the other gods you will understand why I dismiss yours." Stephen F. Roberts

Roberts is lost. Show me one other religious work as credibly prophetic as the Bible?

Discussion of my signature is not appropriate in a thread....

That was a "signature"? Looked to me more like someone trying to sneak in a protected fantasy statement to indoctrinate the gullible.

[Biker]

Biker wrote:
Incredibly wrong question!
Unbelievers ask the wrong questions!
Do YOU really care if YOU are going to hell?
Biker
In an attempt to keep Biker engauged, I wil asnwer his "better" question. Do I care if I am going to hell? If Hell exists and the rules to get out existed in the Bible I would be a fool not to. OK. So what?

You answered nothing!
Again: Do YOU really care if YOU are going to hell?

If hell exists

Does it to you?

So what?

Yeah, so what do you actually answer?

Biker