Do you really care that I am going to hell?

[Cmass]

I don't think you really believe I will fry in Hell for being an Atheist. I don't think you really truly believe any of your non-believing family will either. I think deep down, you know it just isn't true.

If you do believe they will all fry and are not doing absolutely everything in your power to stop it, I would suggest that you are a very cold, dispassionate person. If you really believed your dearly beloved mother was going to burn in hell right next to Cmass and Charles Manson then you would stop at nothing to convince her to accept Jesus. You would not just gently encourage, you would be emotionally and perhaps even physically engaged on a daily and hourly basis. You most certainly would not be reading this silly OP right now. Not if you REALLY cared.

Think about it. If you saw your mother being beaten by someone on the street, would you stop to help save her? Would you put your own life at risk to keep her from drowning? Is there anything you would not do to help her? OK, what about eternal torture in hell? Doesn't this concern you? What about all the other people in your life who are going to hell? Doesn't this leave you feeling devastated? If I believed there was a hell and that so many people would be going - especially any of my friends or family - I would be in constant agony myself and would devote my life to stopping it. Or, I would be numb.

Does your knowledge that so many people will be in eternal torture bother you very much on a daily basis?

This OP came about after reading commentary by some of our more conservative Christian friends in here. Some seem to have no real problem with all us atheists burning in hell forever. Granted, there are probably some personal anger issues involved but still, I have always been uneasy with how casual many Christians are when it comes to discussing eternal damnation. Some get more upset over running over a kitty than the eternal torture of their best friend.

Nonetheless, I give most the benefit of the doubt: I don't think they are really that cold. I just don't think they really believe as much in the hell concept as they report.

[McCulloch]

No, but it is far more understandable than "weekly meetings" of unbelievers who worship themselves, and the work of their hands and things, anything EXCEPT God, and sing songs to themselves and to the work of their hands and to things and to other people, anything EXCEPT God, and look to themselves and other people and the work of their hands and things for help, anything EXCEPT God, and roll around on the floor talking gibberish because they have self medicated themselves due to anguish and fear and hopelessness because they harbor unforgiveness against everyone around them and hatred and malice and judgment and sin and guilt and stubbornly resist a free gift offered to them by a loving and kind God who loves them, and they hate those who have accepted this free gift and are forgiven and have been set free from all the things that unbelievers are trying to handle stubbornly in their own strength, and their own power and their own brilliant mind, all the while blaming God and those nasty, smug, superior, Christians, who don't feel that way or have those thoughts.

Holy run-on sentence Batman! 1,079 characters (187 words) without a period.

Just like the unbelievers do every weekend at NFL, NBA, MLB, NHL, PGA, NASCAR, HOLLYWOOD, MUSICIANS, WRITERS, childs games grown men do who are getting paid more than you to play child's games and you worship them and throw money at them and clap for them and shout for them and worship them.

I was unaware that the activities listed were exclusively for unbelievers.

[Biker]

No, but it is far more understandable than "weekly meetings" of unbelievers who worship themselves, and the work of their hands and things, anything EXCEPT God, and sing songs to themselves and to the work of their hands and to things and to other people, anything EXCEPT God, and look to themselves and other people and the work of their hands and things for help, anything EXCEPT God, and roll around on the floor talking gibberish because they have self medicated themselves due to anguish and fear and hopelessness because they harbor unforgiveness against everyone around them and hatred and malice and judgment and sin and guilt and stubbornly resist a free gift offered to them by a loving and kind God who loves them, and they hate those who have accepted this free gift and are forgiven and have been set free from all the things that unbelievers are trying to handle stubbornly in their own strength, and their own power and their own brilliant mind, all the while blaming God and those nasty, smug, superior, Christians, who don't feel that way or have those thoughts.

Holy run-on sentence Batman! 1,079 characters (187 words) without a period.

Just like the unbelievers do every weekend at NFL, NBA, MLB, NHL, PGA, NASCAR, HOLLYWOOD, MUSICIANS, WRITERS, childs games grown men do who are getting paid more than you to play child's games and you worship them and throw money at them and clap for them and shout for them and worship them.

I was unaware that the activities listed were exclusively for unbelievers.

Holy run-on sentence Batman!

Whew! Breathe. Whew! Robin!

I was unaware that the activities listed were exclusively for unbelievers

They're not. I was drawing a parallel.

Biker

[SimonH]

This is very entertaining! Atheists in a conversation with themselves about a place they don't believe in and God who "isn't there"?
This is more fun than "John from Cincinnati"! And about as understandable!
LOL!!!

Biker

it is actually quite funny. But its all your fault!

My personal excuse is I'm going through a period of boredom right now...

[Biker]

This is very entertaining! Atheists in a conversation with themselves about a place they don't believe in and God who "isn't there"?
This is more fun than "John from Cincinnati"! And about as understandable!
LOL!!!

Biker

it is actually quite funny. But its all your fault!

My personal excuse is I'm going through a period of boredom right now...

Neither am I. I'm very entertained though!

Biker

[Biker]

Have you noticed! I am having an effect on atheists! It is a fact that atheists are using more !!!

Biker!

[micatala]

I can be of help by telling you how you can escape hell by receiving God's free gift of eternal life through Jesus the Christ.

Are you honestly so certain you aren't going to hell? Before you answer, I might remind you that we are all sinners. As such, none of us can be certain of our fate. For if we were, tell me, would we not just be practicing another form of arrogance? Mother Theresa wouldn't even give certainty to her fate. Has your life been so much more faith following than hers?

Some Christian beliefs presented here (and elsewhere) guarantee "heaven" strictly on the basis of BELIEF. Sins apparently do not matter. Just BELIEVE in the "savior" and you get a free ticket to "eternal bliss".

Mother Theresa probably did not expect a free ride for simply believing -- but thought that one's actions count.

I see I have been missing a rather lengthy and contentious debate.


On the issue of being certain about going to heaven.

The Sheep and the Goats
31"When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his throne in heavenly glory. 32All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.
34"Then the King will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.'

37"Then the righteous will answer him, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?'

40"The King will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.'

41"Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.'

44"They also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?'

45"He will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.'

46"Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."

This passage says several things to me.

One is that there will be those who have deceived themselves into thinking they will be in heaven when in fact they will be going elsewhere.

Similarly, it seems possible based on this passage that some who were not even contemplating heaven as a possiblity will be there. They did not explicitly do anything for the Lord, but did act charitably and unselfishly to 'the least of my brothers.' For this, they are receiving their eternal reward.




Thirdly, note that it is actions not belief that result in eternal reward in this passage.

[Cmass]

Micatala wrote:

This passage says several things to me.

One is that there will be those who have deceived themselves into thinking they will be in heaven when in fact they will be going elsewhere.

Similarly, it seems possible based on this passage that some who were not even contemplating heaven as a possiblity will be there. They did not explicitly do anything for the Lord, but did act charitably and unselfishly to 'the least of my brothers.' For this, they are receiving their eternal reward.

Thirdly, note that it is actions not belief that result in eternal reward in this passage.

Whoa! This statement should certainly have some serious ramifications within this forum.

Concerning my OP (from a previous thread - it was directed to Biker):

I am especially interested in the consequences of certain interpretations of the stories and actions of the characters. In this case, I propose the consequences of believing in Hell are horrific for an empathetic person.

Are you a highly feeling and empathetic person? Do you have close, loving, giving relationships with others (besides God)? Are there people in your life you would be willing to die and be tortured for? If so, I would think the mental and emotional consequences of believing in Hell would be astronomical.
I thought Adlemi's answers were fascinating in that she believes that once she is in heaven, God will erase her memories so it won't matter to her that her loved ones are being tortured. This viewpoint has enormous implications but I did find it interesting.

[adlemi]

Adlemi wrote:

Though we can be certain that salvation and eternal life is being given to us ahead of our death, but we cannot be certain that we have it automatically once we die.

This is confusing and contradictory. We are certain of our salvation yet might not get it?

It does mean that it is certain that the Lord will give you your salvation and eternal life once He sees in your heart (not with what your lips utters) your genuine faith in Him but your salvation and eternal life is conditional in the sense that you have to be always subservient to the Lord for the rest of your life unto your death so that you will not lose same when you die. Once you back slide with the Lord, automatically you will lose your salvation and eternal life.

Since we do not know when we will meet death, it follows that we will not be certain with respect to the outcome of our destiny when we die. OF COURSE

[adlemi]

Adlemi wrote:

Though we can be certain that salvation and eternal life is being given to us ahead of our death, but we cannot be certain that we have it automatically once we die.

This is confusing and contradictory. We are certain of our salvation yet might not get it?

I said salvation and eternal life is being given to us ahead of our death (and this is certain) and I do say now that same are conditional with the Lord in the sense that we have to be always subservient to the Lord so that we may not lose them when we die, otherwise hell is waiting out there for us.

[adlemi]

No. Subservient isn't a word I would use to describe it. Rather, consider us equal and worthy of the same respect and honor He wished us to show Him.

Remember that the Lord is the Good Shepherd and we are the sheeps and if we are not subservient to the Lord always, where do you think the Lord may put us in?

Indeed, we are all equal in the eyes of God but not all is found worthy to inherit the kingdom of God.