Are atheists afraid of God?

[Paul of Tarsus]

In response to Stephen Hawking's quip, "Religion is a fairy story for people afraid of the dark," apologist John Lennox said, "And atheism is a fairy story for those afraid of the light."

Do atheists fear that light aka God? I would answer no assuming I knew atheists to be completely sensible and rational in their rejection of theism, but they very often aren't sensible and rational in their unbelief. In this forum, for example, an atheist said he lost his belief in God when he realized that there are different religions. When I tried to explain to him that those conflicting faiths can be explained as some of them getting a real God wrong, well, it did me no good! It's simply illogical to conclude that God doesn't exist because some people disagree about him. His atheism is obviously based on faulty logic. What's odd about these cases involving atheists using poor reasoning to reject God is that those atheists seem quite reasonable otherwise. My guess is that they fear God and wish that he doesn't exist. Atheism is for them a sanctuary from theism and a hope that reality harbors no scary God.

[William]

I have never seen any of these atheists explain what they might consider as evidence for a God being real, [since they appear to be implying that they will know it if they saw it]...so I have wondered if these atheists are afraid of naming these things they would accept as evidence in case they might happen and the Atheist has to become a theist.

Or, perhaps it is that they really don't know.

So it becomes something of a problem when such an unknown is used in demand of evidence to support the claim by theist's that "we exist within a creation and there is a Creator".

"Show us the evidence that we don't know what it will be that convinces us that there is a Creator."

It is like asking to be shown an invisible pink unicorn being ridden by an invisible lucky leprechaun atop an invisible Flying Spaghetti Monster with a toothache which an invisible tooth fairy is keenly interested in.

The Creator is invisible to the human eye as being any form which can be seen. As soon as form is applied, it is questionable, no matter what form it might take on.

But showing someone an invisible "anything" proves only that the thing wasn't really invisible, as was claimed...and ♫grab your partners by the hand and do it all again♫

If nothing that has apparently convinced theists that gods exist has worked on atheists, then it is hard to imagine exactly what else it would take.

I think that only knowingly dying and then going on into the next phase would make it possible for an atheist to think about changing their mind...

I would love to be convinced that an ever-loving god is out there with my eternal happiness in mind. What's not to like about that? We also need to acknowledge that the majority of theists did not reach their position of belief through reasoning and the evaluation of evidence. They were inculcated with their beliefs through indoctrination. A lot of what we get from theists amounts to retrofitting arguments in an attempt to rationalise and justify their beliefs. Is that because they are afraid of losing their belief in God and facing the consequences that would entail?

We can agree that there will be many type reasons for why theists believe what they do about the next phase.
I can only speak for my own theist position in that it is not motivated by the fear of dying and existing no more. That can be an enticing belief to hold.

For me it is more about the possibility that there will be the next phase and my not taking that into account may well have a negative affect on outcome...like the unexpected often can...especially if I have a bad attitude or have been a right proper nasty in the here and now.

So perhaps that is a type of fear - fear of dying and being taken completely by surprise, because I never believed whatsoever that such a thing was possible.

But that would only be a part of the reason for my thinking there is a next phase to experience. Things which have happened subjectively to me [invisible to you] also contribute to this understanding that we exist within some sort of reality experience and when this one finishes, the next one is there ready for my occupation...to be experienced as real or even more real than this current one is being experienced.

[Tcg]

The issue isn't if theists and atheists can share any beliefs but is if atheists and theists can share theistic beliefs in particular.

That's an easy issue to resolve. No, they can't. It's like asking if a person who lacks belief in a flat earth can share the flat earth belief flat-earthers have in a flat earth. Well, no... no they can't.


Tcg

[William]

I have seen atheists claiming that they would change their mind if only a God would do something which would prove the God was real. I have never seen any of these atheists explain what they might consider as evidence for a God being real, [since they appear to be implying that they will know it if they saw it]...so I have wondered if these atheists are afraid of naming these things they would accept as evidence in case they might happen and the Atheist has to become a theist. - Perhaps that is the fear that atheists can have. The fear of becoming a theist...The fear of there actually being a Creator. The added fear that The Creator might be a God like the one of the bible?

When I've experienced that question, I've gotten the impression that is a delay or avoidance tactic.

Yes. I can certainly appreciate that impression. It is understandable from the atheist position.

It is often accompanied by the accusation that the atheist wouldn't believe no matter what evidence was offered.

I think that is also a fair impression and needn't be taken as an accusation. The main point being...the lack of belief in gods leaves a lot of wiggle room...what is a 'god' that one can recognize it as a god if one could see it?

Given that the 'good' god of Christianity is called "God" and is portrayed as a being worshiped upon a throne by his supporters [worshipers] and the bad god of Christianity is called "Satan" and is portrayed as a being worshiped upon a throne by his supporters...if one was shown an actual living image of a being on a throne proclaiming to be a god and demanding one's worship and support, how would an atheist or a theist know for sure that it is indeed a god, let alone The Creator of the whole universe? All such evidence seen would really do is produce more questions...perhaps, especially from atheists - and as such - "Lack of belief in gods" would remain the position to hold until there are no further questions.

The result is often that no evidence is presented. I've never sensed fear as a motivator on any atheists part. It is of course possible.

The impression I get is not one of fear but of surety that no such evidence can be given which could be convincing enough...
Of course, the fear that Paul of Taurus is speaking of seems to be the fear of the Christian God who will condemn a person to everlasting pain and suffering...otherwise, what is to fear anyway?

When I am asked what evidence I'd accept, I reply that I don't know. This is an honest reply. I have no idea. Generally I request a presentation of evidence. This certainly isn't the result of fear. The result usually matches what I've described above. I'm told I wouldn't believe no matter what is presented and nothing is presented.

I think that only knowingly dying and then going on into the next phase would make it possible for an atheist to think about changing their mind...

[Tcg]

I think that only knowingly dying and then going on into the next phase would make it possible for an atheist to think about changing their mind...

Going on to the next phase wouldn't prove the existence of god/gods, but rather the existence of life after death. You do seem to be admitting that there is no evidence a theist can present to support their belief in god/gods. Quite a nice change from blaming atheists for their perfectly reasonable lack of belief.


Tcg

[William]

I think that only knowingly dying and then going on into the next phase would make it possible for an atheist to think about changing their mind...

Going on to the next phase wouldn't prove the existence of god/gods, but rather the existence of life after death.

As I said, that would depend upon the atheists own interpretation [thus expectation] of 'what constitutes a 'god''
So if the existence of another universe constitutes evidence that supports the underlying premise that these are Creations, and a "god" constitutes something which Creates the Creation, then - as I wrote - "the next phase would make it possible for an atheist to think about changing their mind..."

You do seem to be admitting that there is no evidence a theist can present to support their belief in god/gods.

Not to someone who lacks belief in gods. I have always 'admitted' that much. For me, the existence of this universe is enough evidence. That is why I am a theist. But I know that my saying "Ta Dah! See the universe is the evidence!" is not what an atheist thinks of as evidence of a Creator which they can believe must exist. So in that, anything which is visible and seen to exist is never going to be evidence that gods exist as long as one retains their lack of belief in gods.

Quite a nice change from blaming atheists for their perfectly reasonable lack of belief.

I don't blame anyone for their lack of belief in gods. I just think it is an unreasonable position for me to assume.

[Paul of Tarsus]

The issue isn't if theists and atheists can share any beliefs but is if atheists and theists can share theistic beliefs in particular.

That's an easy issue to resolve. No, they can't. It's like asking if a person who lacks belief in a flat earth can share the flat earth belief flat-earthers have in a flat earth. Well, no... no they can't.

It's entirely possible for a person to be a flat-earther and think the earth is round. People sometimes don't think consistently. A good example is an atheist who criticizes fundamentalism in religion while he holds fundamentalist beliefs based in his atheism like the sacred dogma that no atheist can have any belief at all in God.

So please post what cognitive dissonance is. We can take it from there.

[otseng]

It is not acceptable to accuse others of "dodging"...

Don't dodge questions, and it won't be an issue.

Moderator Comment

Yes, William is correct, please do not accuse others of dodging, even if you think they are actually dodging. Just continue your argument and let readers decide for themselves if another poster is dodging.

Please review the Rules.


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[Tcg]

It's entirely possible for a person to be a flat-earther and think the earth is round.

Sure, because round doesn't imply not flat.

People sometimes don't think consistently. A good example is an atheist who criticizes fundamentalism in religion while he holds fundamentalist beliefs based in his atheism like the sacred dogma that no atheist can have any belief at all in God.

Sacred dogma? Fundamentalists beliefs? Atheism has none.

So please post what cognitive dissonance is. We can take it from there.

Now you're asking me to make your point for you?


Tcg

[Tcg]

So if the existence of another universe constitutes evidence that supports the underlying premise that these are Creations, and a "god" constitutes something which Creates the Creation, then - as I wrote - "the next phase would make it possible for an atheist to think about changing their mind..."

The existence of another universe would provide evidence of another universe, not god/gods. In the same way that this universe isn't evidence of god/gods, another one wouldn't be either.


Tcg

[Kylie]

Perhaps, but by your own information, he had spent most of his life as a believer. If there was a bit of a believer left in him, then the same can't be said to apply to me.

That's correct. Everybody's different, and there may be some atheists who are doubters to the core. I am arguing that it's entirely possible that some atheists may nevertheless fear God.

I think you'll find that such cases, like the one you presented, are a result of latent religiosity, not a result of atheism.