Are atheists afraid of God?

[Paul of Tarsus]

In response to Stephen Hawking's quip, "Religion is a fairy story for people afraid of the dark," apologist John Lennox said, "And atheism is a fairy story for those afraid of the light."

Do atheists fear that light aka God? I would answer no assuming I knew atheists to be completely sensible and rational in their rejection of theism, but they very often aren't sensible and rational in their unbelief. In this forum, for example, an atheist said he lost his belief in God when he realized that there are different religions. When I tried to explain to him that those conflicting faiths can be explained as some of them getting a real God wrong, well, it did me no good! It's simply illogical to conclude that God doesn't exist because some people disagree about him. His atheism is obviously based on faulty logic. What's odd about these cases involving atheists using poor reasoning to reject God is that those atheists seem quite reasonable otherwise. My guess is that they fear God and wish that he doesn't exist. Atheism is for them a sanctuary from theism and a hope that reality harbors no scary God.

[William]

Specifically what you are ignoring consistently is where folk have attempted to correct you on your interpretation of "Atheist" so consequently all your arguements are false because your premise as to what an Atheist is as a position...is false from the go get.

This being pointed out to you by a number of folk, is that which I am referring to as what you are ignoring.

[Paul of Tarsus]

Specifically what you are ignoring consistently is where folk have attempted to correct you on your interpretation of "Atheist" so consequently all your arguements are false because your premise as to what an Atheist is as a position...is false from the go get.

This being pointed out to you by a number of folk, is that which I am referring to as what you are ignoring.

You argue just like Christian fundamentalists do: in absolutes. There's no room for differences of "interpretations" or anything else. That which you don't believe is "false" by definition. It appears that I define atheism a bit differently than some other people do. I have the right to do that and to argue why my definition fits better. I have already posted that if we define an atheist as a person who totally lacks any theistic belief, then the result is that many people who think, talk, and live as atheists are actually theists! Don't you see how absurd that is? If Richard Dawkins, for instance, happens to have a wee bit of a gnawing in the back of his mind that God exists, then would he be a theist?

And speaking of ignoring, you completely ignored my question: How does cognitive dissonance fail to substantiate the possibility of an atheist fearing God? You dodged it. Many other people have dodged that issue too. You have done what you have accused me of. That's hypocrisy, and it's a terrible way to conduct yourself in an honest debate.

So contrary to what you claim, I haven't ignored the assertion that atheism is merely lack of belief in God. I've demonstrated that it's a weak definition that doesn't fit the human psyche.

[William]

Specifically what you are ignoring consistently is where folk have attempted to correct you on your interpretation of "Atheist" so consequently all your arguments are false because your premise as to what an Atheist is as a position...is false from the go get.

This being pointed out to you by a number of folk, is that which I am referring to as what you are ignoring.

It appears that I define atheism a bit differently than some other people do.

That is the point yes. You believe you have the right to define Atheism as you want to define it, and in doing so, you created a strawman in which you could then argue the validity of.
But your definition is false, and thus your argument is invalid.

I have the right to do that and to argue why my definition fits better.

That still does not make it valid.

I have already posted that if we define an atheist as a person who totally lacks any theistic belief, then the result is that many people who think, talk, and live as atheists are actually theists!

Invalid. One can lack belief in gods [which is the true definition of an Atheist] and still share beliefs which are also shared by theists. Indeed one can argue from that, that it is theists who share beliefs with atheists...such as the belief that being kind and loving is a good thing to do.

Or paying taxes etc et al...so in that we can observe that to say 'a theist is really an atheist for sharing such beliefs' would be equally invalid.

If Richard Dawkins, for instance, happens to have a wee bit of a gnawing in the back of his mind that God exists, then would he be a theist?

No. Unless your definition of 'theist' is 'someone who has a wee bit of a gnawing in the back of his mind that God exists". Do you believe that is what a theist is?

And speaking of ignoring, you completely ignored my question: How does cognitive dissonance fail to substantiate the possibility of an atheist fearing God?

The question as presented in its format, makes little sense to me. Why would any God fear an atheist?
But seriously? What does your question actually ask that it can be answered in any sensible manner?

You dodged it. Many other people have dodged that issue too.

It is not acceptable to accuse others of "dodging"...it's a terrible way to conduct oneself in an honest debate.

So contrary to what you claim, I haven't ignored the assertion that atheism is merely lack of belief in God. I've demonstrated that it's a weak definition that doesn't fit the human psyche.

It is simply a position of lacking belief in gods. Any other position which is not that, is not Atheism. It is something other than atheism. Your reasoning wants to imply things about the position that are not actually to do with that position, but have something to do with other positions which are not the atheist position.

It is not the Atheist position to love and be kind...but it is something which an atheist can do and still lack belief in gods.

[Paul of Tarsus]

It appears that I define atheism a bit differently than some other people do.

That is the point yes. You believe you have the right to define Atheism as you want to define it, and in doing so, you created a strawman in which you could then argue the validity of.
But your definition is false, and thus your argument is invalid.

You define atheism they way you want to define it too. We all define it the way we see fit. Your error there is your assumption that definitions of words are absolutely correct or incorrect. That's nonsense. People arbitrarily assign meanings to words, and so no definition is absolutely correct.

But let's take a look at The Oxford Dictionary of Philosophy-Oxford Reference to see how it defines atheism:

atheism - The theory or belief that God does not exist.

Looks like trouble for the atheists here, William! That's not the definition you've been using for atheism. You better contact the folks at Oxford and tell them they have the "wrong" definition.

And if that's not bad enough, you don't know what a straw-man argument is, either. A straw-man argument is commonly understood as a deliberate misrepresentation of another person's argument. It's not using a definition of a word that you don't agree with.

I have posted no straw-man arguments.

One can lack belief in gods [which is the true definition of an Atheist]...

Oh sure; just like Jesus is the true Messiah.

...and still share beliefs which are also shared by theists. Indeed one can argue from that, that it is theists who share beliefs with atheists...such as the belief that being kind and loving is a good thing to do.

Or paying taxes etc et al...so in that we can observe that to say 'a theist is really an atheist for sharing such beliefs' would be equally invalid.

This is all irrelevant to the issue. The issue isn't if theists and atheists can share any beliefs but is if atheists and theists can share theistic beliefs in particular.

If Richard Dawkins, for instance, happens to have a wee bit of a gnawing in the back of his mind that God exists, then would he be a theist?

No.

Then we agree that atheists can indeed harbor some theistic belief. I'm glad I've gotten through to you.

Unless your definition of 'theist' is 'someone who has a wee bit of a gnawing in the back of his mind that God exists". Do you believe that is what a theist is?

A theist is a person who believes in God and thinks there is a God. So no, a tiny bit of subconscious belief in God doesn't make a person a theist unless that person also consciously thinks there is a God. Richard Dawkins does not think there is a God, so he's an atheist even if he does have some possibly suppressed belief in God.

The question as presented in its format, makes little sense to me. Why would any God fear an atheist?
But seriously? What does your question actually ask that it can be answered in any sensible manner?

I'm sorry if I went over your head. Let's take it in baby steps. Do you know what cognitive dissonance is?

It is not acceptable to accuse others of "dodging"...

Don't dodge questions, and it won't be an issue.

So contrary to what you claim, I haven't ignored the assertion that atheism is merely lack of belief in God. I've demonstrated that it's a weak definition that doesn't fit the human psyche.

It is simply a position of lacking belief in gods. Any other position which is not that, is not Atheism. It is something other than atheism. Your reasoning wants to imply things about the position that are not actually to do with that position, but have something to do with other positions which are not the atheist position.

What you've posted here reminds me of what fundamentalist Christians argue about their beliefs. They simply cannot accept any understanding of their beliefs that differs from the way they see those beliefs. They have the Truth (upper-case T), and all those who disagree have false notions. For example, if you tell them that a Christian has done something evil, then they are quick to say that person is not a true Christian! In the same way you are quick to deem any definition of atheism you disagree with as "false." You, like fundamentalist Christians, have the Truth, and all who disagree are saying what is false.

Fundamentalism is then seen to affect atheists and Christians alike.

[Tcg]

Tcg, for example, keeps asserting that atheists cannot believe in God with little or no evidence to back up that assertion.

This is like asking for evidence of why a hamburger...



...can't be a Mustang.



An atheist is a person that lacks belief in god/gods. A person who believes in God can't possibly also lack belief in god/gods.


Tcg

[Tcg]

I have seen atheists claiming that they would change their mind if only a God would do something which would prove the God was real. I have never seen any of these atheists explain what they might consider as evidence for a God being real, [since they appear to be implying that they will know it if they saw it]...so I have wondered if these atheists are afraid of naming these things they would accept as evidence in case they might happen and the Atheist has to become a theist. - Perhaps that is the fear that atheists can have. The fear of becoming a theist...The fear of there actually being a Creator. The added fear that The Creator might be a God like the one of the bible?

When I've experienced that question, I've gotten the impression that is a delay or avoidance tactic. It is often accompanied by the accusation that the ashiest wouldn't believe no matter what evidence was offered. The result is often that no evidence is presented. I've never sensed fear as a motivator on any atheists part. It is of course possible.

When I am asked what evidence I'd accept, I reply that I don't know. This is an honest reply. I have no idea. Generally I request a presentation of evidence. This certainly isn't the result of fear. The result usually matches what I've described above. I'm told I wouldn't believe no matter what is presented and nothing is presented.


Tcg

[Tcg]

What you've posted here reminds me of what fundamentalist Christians argue about their beliefs. They simply cannot accept any understanding of their beliefs that differs from the way they see those beliefs. They have the Truth (upper-case T), and all those who disagree have false notions. For example, if you tell them that a Christian has done something evil, then they are quick to say that person is not a true Christian! In the same way you are quick to deem any definition of atheism you disagree with as "false." You, like fundamentalist Christians, have the Truth, and all who disagree are saying what is false.

Fundamentalism is then seen to affect atheists and Christians alike.

William is not an atheist. Once again you are attempting to prove something about atheists while using a theist as an example. Once again the fallacy of doing so is obvious.

Additionally, your caricature of William's position is highly inaccurate. So much so that it results in yet another straw man on your part.


Tcg

[brunumb]

So why does the idea of atheists fearing God bother you so much?

The idea doesn't bother me in the least. It is the absurdity of promoting such an idea that is disturbing. Why would anyone have a deep seated need to project having a fear of God onto people who don't believe in God? What is the real purpose here?

[brunumb]

I have never seen any of these atheists explain what they might consider as evidence for a God being real, [since they appear to be implying that they will know it if they saw it]...so I have wondered if these atheists are afraid of naming these things they would accept as evidence in case they might happen and the Atheist has to become a theist.

Or, perhaps it is that they really don't know. If nothing that has apparently convinced theists that gods exist has worked on atheists, then it is hard to imagine exactly what else it would take. I would love to be convinced that an ever-loving god is out there with my eternal happiness in mind. What's not to like about that? We also need to acknowledge that the majority of theists did not reach their position of belief through reasoning and the evaluation of evidence. They were inculcated with their beliefs through indoctrination. A lot of what we get from theists amounts to retrofitting arguments in an attempt to rationalise and justify their beliefs. Is that because they are afraid of losing their belief in God and facing the consequences that would entail?

[brunumb]

An atheist is a person that lacks belief in god/gods. A person who believes in God can't possibly also lack belief in god/gods.

A woman is pregnant or she is not pregnant. She can't be pregnant and not pregnant. There is no 'little bit pregnant' that somehow equates to not pregnant.