The Evidence War

[chrispalasz]

Please take the time to read this entire post.

This thread is created for posts that:

1. Show evidence supporting the view that Christianity holds the Truth about God and humanity.

2. Show evidence supporting the view that Christianity does not hold the truth about God and humanity.

Evidence posted must be according to one of the two definitions, or it will not be deemed sufficient as evidence. All debate arising from posted evidence should be addressed using counter-evidence [counter-evidence defined as evidence that goes against or attempts to falsify or discredit evidence already posted].

Evidence, on this thread, is defined as follows:

1. Of or having to do with a material object that demonstrates, makes clear, or ascertains the truth of the very fact or point in issue;

2. A matter of record, or writing, or by the testimony of witnesses, enabling one to pronounce with certainty; concerning the truth of any matter in dispute.

[youngborean]

In my mind, Israel exists as a physical promise of God, therefore the devil will try to discredit any physical evidence. Hence, the appearance of anti-semitism. I believe the same applies for the existence of evil and suffering in general. Unless someone can offer a rational explanation of these things.

The root of anti-semtiism can be found in the gospels. The passion narratives are, among other things, a polemic created by early Christians, who were themselves a sect of Judaism, against rival sects. At this level, the claim that Jesus was crucified because of the Jews who "could not see" was harmless enough. The situation changed drastically when Christianity became the state religion of the Roman Empire. The Holocaust was the logical conclusion of Christian Europe's racism.

I think that's a bit of a stretch considering the position of Paul, who calls Israel beloved of the father. But, if you are saying that people look at the gospels in isolation and see the Pharisees as a representation of a race then their short-sighted interpretation would be to blame and these people would already have a disposition to hate Jews based on spiritual insecurity. Again, I think the killing of Jews is not the logical outcome of the message of the gospel despite a presentation of Pharisee in a pejorative manner. Besides, anti-semitism exists in atheist and non-christian countries.

[Lotan]

But, if you are saying that people look at the gospels in isolation and see the Pharisees as a representation of a race then their short-sighted interpretation would be to blame and these people would already have a disposition to hate Jews based on spiritual insecurity.

That's about it. The racist aspect of this hatred is the result of Christianity spreading among the gentiles. The gospels don't just denigrate the Pharisees, they implicate Jews in the murder of Jesus.

Besides, anti-semitism exists in atheist and non-christian countries.

If you mean the animosity between Israel and Arab countries (and by extrapolation other non-Arab muslim countries) then, of course you are correct, but this is a relatively recent development.
Can you name some 'atheist' countries? I might emigrate!

[samuelbb7]

t The science that gives us the cell phone and internet is not the same science that guesses the age of the earth. Evolutionist taught that at one time that humans evolved at different places on the earth. That indians and africans were older less evolved humans. The bible taught that all humans came from eden near northern africa and that latter on from the middle east near turkey. C Scientist on the recent pbs special journey of man pointed out that all humans who have a single female ancestor came from near Norther Africa and that all humans came from people near turkey. Also that we are descend from a single source. Evolutionary theory adopted to points already shown by the Bible to be true.

Daniel predicted Greece under a single ruler would conquer the area then it would fall apart and be destroyed by an iron empire. He also predicted that JESUS would come in 27 AD and die three and one half years latter.

JESUS predicted we would still be arguing and many not believing him today. How could someone show the kingdoms of the world. On a 3D projector or as a vision. It does not matter that is nitpicking. what matters is that many intelligent people have looked at the evidence and do believe in GOD and the Bible. To just make it seem like all bible believers are ignorant is elitist and snobbish intellectualism. YOu may not agree with me nor I with you. But respect is still important.

[youngborean]

If you mean the animosity between Israel and Arab countries (and by extrapolation other non-Arab muslim countries) then, of course you are correct, but this is a relatively recent development.
Can you name some 'atheist' countries? I might emigrate!

My thought was the persecution of Jews in communist Russia. Too late for you to emigrate, sorry

[samuelbb7]

China, NOrth Korea and vietnam are still offically atheist.

[Lotan]

China, NOrth Korea and vietnam are still offically atheist.

Are any of these countries particularly anti-semitic?

[samuelbb7]

Not that i know of.

[Dilettante]

Anyone wishing to contribute to this debate should perhaps start by admitting the possibility that she could be wrong and stating what she would consider proof that she is wrong. Anyone not willing to ever admit to being wrong or not willing to admit any proof against her claim is someone with whom arguing is justa waste of mental energy and valuable time.

[ENIGMA]

Anyone wishing to contribute to this debate should perhaps start by admitting the possibility that she could be wrong and stating what she would consider proof that she is wrong. Anyone not willing to ever admit to being wrong or not willing to admit any proof against her claim is someone with whom arguing is justa waste of mental energy and valuable time.

Proof that evolutionary theory is wrong:

One single fossil that is found and confirmed to be wildly out of place indicating that it was buried at a time that is impossible according to the Evolutionary model. (T. Rex Fossil in the Precambrian, Human Fossil found buried inside a T. Rex Fossil, etc.). Don't bother bringing up the Paluxy River bed, that has already been shown to be a fake by even Creationist groups.

Some Earth lifeform which has a significantly different series of DNA bases (Other than the standard A, G, C, and T (or U for RNA)), or has a genetic code that creates radically different proteins from the same codons than standard.

Confirmed findings of either of these will kill evolutionary theory as we know it.

Neither of these have yet transpired, yet they have had plenty of opportunities to occur. No mines in the minefield will detonate today, methinks.

[Dilettante]

Thanks, Enigma.
That's the only way the debate can advance.

I am not a biologist, but evolution is supported by so much converging evidence that I can't see how anyone can say it has been proven wrong. Religious leaders such as the Pope have acknowledged this. When people refer to evolution as a "theory", they should be aware that the word "theory" has two meanings:
1. A guess.
2. An explanation of facts (similar to
a law of nature)
Evolution is a theory in the second sense of the word. However, evolution is not necessarily incompatible with a belief in God, at least many reasonable people see it that way.