Do you really care that I am going to hell?

[Cmass]

I don't think you really believe I will fry in Hell for being an Atheist. I don't think you really truly believe any of your non-believing family will either. I think deep down, you know it just isn't true.

If you do believe they will all fry and are not doing absolutely everything in your power to stop it, I would suggest that you are a very cold, dispassionate person. If you really believed your dearly beloved mother was going to burn in hell right next to Cmass and Charles Manson then you would stop at nothing to convince her to accept Jesus. You would not just gently encourage, you would be emotionally and perhaps even physically engaged on a daily and hourly basis. You most certainly would not be reading this silly OP right now. Not if you REALLY cared.

Think about it. If you saw your mother being beaten by someone on the street, would you stop to help save her? Would you put your own life at risk to keep her from drowning? Is there anything you would not do to help her? OK, what about eternal torture in hell? Doesn't this concern you? What about all the other people in your life who are going to hell? Doesn't this leave you feeling devastated? If I believed there was a hell and that so many people would be going - especially any of my friends or family - I would be in constant agony myself and would devote my life to stopping it. Or, I would be numb.

Does your knowledge that so many people will be in eternal torture bother you very much on a daily basis?

This OP came about after reading commentary by some of our more conservative Christian friends in here. Some seem to have no real problem with all us atheists burning in hell forever. Granted, there are probably some personal anger issues involved but still, I have always been uneasy with how casual many Christians are when it comes to discussing eternal damnation. Some get more upset over running over a kitty than the eternal torture of their best friend.

Nonetheless, I give most the benefit of the doubt: I don't think they are really that cold. I just don't think they really believe as much in the hell concept as they report.

[Openmind]

You really have some interesting opinions Adlemi.

You claim that in Heaven you will have no memory or knowledge of your frying mother, and thus her hellish experience won't phase you.

Adlemi - that is almost as bad as not caring that she is burning in Hell. You acknowledge that she will be burning in Hell, though it doesn't matter because you won't know about it.

Adlemi - if I get really drunk and murder a young girl, how consoled do you think I am going to be in the morning when I wake up and find the blood on my hands, but no memory of the event? Yours is just one step up from that - murdering the girl and washing the blood off.

"If you want to be saved, come and get nigh with Me. If you want eternal life, come and call on to Me. Put your trust in Me because if you fail to do these things, you have no salvation and eternal life."

You claim you literally heard these words. Like a voice in your head? Why are the schizophrenics who claim God tells them to kill people wrong? Perhaps this is what God wants.

Adlemi - baseline fact here. You have no biblical support for what you claim. Nothing in the bible indicates solidly our minds are wiped clean in heaven. If it did...well then I'd be shocked and apalled any ancient Jew could come up with something like that.

Without biblical support, this is no longer christianity, it's Adlemi-anity.

[Lainey]

Doesn't "sup" mean something like "dine?" Are you saying you eat, say, dinner with God? Does he need to eat? I bet you always get the best tables at all the restaurants...

Tell me, Adlemi, I've been curious about this for awhile now--are there any special plants involved in your communion with the Lord?

Adlemi, you missed my post. I am curious to hear your response.

[twobitsmedia]

So, the choices are-go to heaven and lose your mind..

it is just the memory of your past that you have to lose but not your mind which is still intact with your spirit and soul in paradise. you still have the free will in paradise hence you can still do bad things to your fellow out there and fall back to hell afterward.

or

Go to hell and keep it.

Not totally keep it. It depends on what the Lord will gonna give you in hell.

Sorry, but I am just not getting the rationale for this.

Not all things will be made clear enough for us to understand fully especially the spiritual ones and this is the reason why we all have to come to and entrust our all to God so that God may come in to our life and teach us the necessary things we need to attain our salvation and eternal life. And it is only in that stage where we are already in paradise or in hell that we can fully understand the reality of that new world where we are all bound to go depending on what choice we will choose before we die.

With respect to what you believe, We could go around and around on this to infinitum because you are getting information from a source that you define as "God" through "supping" with him. "Christian" apolegetics, though maybe not without errancy, at least has a foundation for its thoughtbase and that is through the Bible. Even the non-believer has access to that "thoughtbase" and can make of it what they want (and they do). In fact, if the Bible did not exist, there would be no apolegetics. But, your thought base is undefinable. You can move it anywhere and just claim "God told me at dinner.' "Theism" is not, in my opinion, designed to appeal based on evidence. But it is designed to appeal to reason.....which every man....believer or non believer... has the capacity for (as a rule, and I understand there are exceptions to that, ie. mental issues, etc). A "nonthiest" can look at something from the "theism" and reason it to make sense (or not). But in your case......even a thiest has nothing to reason with because it is only based on "you and God." Until your reason can appeal to someone else outside of "you and God," it is, as the Bible says "a banging cymbal."

[Scrotum]

So, the choices are-go to heaven and lose your mind..

it is just the memory of your past that you have to lose but not your mind which is still intact with your spirit and soul in paradise. you still have the free will in paradise hence you can still do bad things to your fellow out there and fall back to hell afterward.

or

Go to hell and keep it.

Not totally keep it. It depends on what the Lord will gonna give you in hell.

Sorry, but I am just not getting the rationale for this.

Not all things will be made clear enough for us to understand fully especially the spiritual ones and this is the reason why we all have to come to and entrust our all to God so that God may come in to our life and teach us the necessary things we need to attain our salvation and eternal life. And it is only in that stage where we are already in paradise or in hell that we can fully understand the reality of that new world where we are all bound to go depending on what choice we will choose before we die.

With respect to what you believe, We could go around and around on this to infinitum because you are getting information from a source that you define as "God" through "supping" with him. "Christian" apolegetics, though maybe not without errancy, at least has a foundation for its thoughtbase and that is through the Bible. Even the non-believer has access to that "thoughtbase" and can make of it what they want (and they do). In fact, if the Bible did not exist, there would be no apolegetics. But, your thought base is undefinable. You can move it anywhere and just claim "God told me at dinner.' "Theism" is not, in my opinion, designed to appeal based on evidence. But it is designed to appeal to reason.....which every man....believer or non believer... has the capacity for (as a rule, and I understand there are exceptions to that, ie. mental issues, etc). A "nonthiest" can look at something from the "theism" and reason it to make sense (or not). But in your case......even a thiest has nothing to reason with because it is only based on "you and God." Until your reason can appeal to someone else outside of "you and God," it is, as the Bible says "a banging cymbal."

Religion appeal to reason? I guess thats why the poorer education and knowledge about the world you have, the more likely you are a theist.

Sorta goes against your point, non?

[twobitsmedia]

So, the choices are-go to heaven and lose your mind..

it is just the memory of your past that you have to lose but not your mind which is still intact with your spirit and soul in paradise. you still have the free will in paradise hence you can still do bad things to your fellow out there and fall back to hell afterward.

or

Go to hell and keep it.

Not totally keep it. It depends on what the Lord will gonna give you in hell.

Sorry, but I am just not getting the rationale for this.

Not all things will be made clear enough for us to understand fully especially the spiritual ones and this is the reason why we all have to come to and entrust our all to God so that God may come in to our life and teach us the necessary things we need to attain our salvation and eternal life. And it is only in that stage where we are already in paradise or in hell that we can fully understand the reality of that new world where we are all bound to go depending on what choice we will choose before we die.

With respect to what you believe, We could go around and around on this to infinitum because you are getting information from a source that you define as "God" through "supping" with him. "Christian" apolegetics, though maybe not without errancy, at least has a foundation for its thoughtbase and that is through the Bible. Even the non-believer has access to that "thoughtbase" and can make of it what they want (and they do). In fact, if the Bible did not exist, there would be no apolegetics. But, your thought base is undefinable. You can move it anywhere and just claim "God told me at dinner.' "Theism" is not, in my opinion, designed to appeal based on evidence. But it is designed to appeal to reason.....which every man....believer or non believer... has the capacity for (as a rule, and I understand there are exceptions to that, ie. mental issues, etc). A "nonthiest" can look at something from the "theism" and reason it to make sense (or not). But in your case......even a thiest has nothing to reason with because it is only based on "you and God." Until your reason can appeal to someone else outside of "you and God," it is, as the Bible says "a banging cymbal."

Religion appeal to reason? I guess thats why the poorer education and knowledge about the world you have, the more likely you are a theist.

Sorta goes against your point, non?

No, but your point helps define mine. It's probably why you make random baseless charges and attempts at character assasination and intentionally designed to provoke with no evidence based only on how you "feel" at the moment. How you "feel" limits what reason can appeal to.

[adlemi]

Doesn't "sup" mean something like "dine?" Are you saying you eat, say, dinner with God?.

Yes but God only bless our food before we eat them. God gives us some insights before we eat and He is the One who lead us in our communion.

[ Does he need to eat?

Of course not since we do not even see Him literally.

I bet you always get the best tables at all the restaurants...

Nope, remember that the Lord was born in a manger, wasn't He? The Lord teaches that no one, even us, the apostles, the prophets, is above the Lord.

Tell me, Adlemi, I've been curious about this for awhile now--are there any special plants involved in your communion with the Lord?

Nope, only wine juice or red wine and an oven bread or sometimes, host(ia).

[adlemi]

"Christian" apolegetics, though maybe not without errancy,

Maybe with errancy or maybe without errancy, either one is possible, isn't it?

at least has a foundation for its thoughtbase and that is through the Bible.

The bible which is not the LOrd God in the first place, why rest on something unstable which when soaked in water will easily distintegrate into granules laeving no trace at all of what is written in it?

Even the non-believer has access to that "thoughtbase" and can make of it what they want (and they do).

Exactly they can make out of it God as they envision Him to exist hence having their own illusioned God.

In fact, if the Bible did not exist, there would be no apolegetics.

And there will also be no different religious groupings which divide the people today.

But, your thought base is undefinable.

Good point for no one can definitely and absolutely define God.

You can move it anywhere and just claim "God told me at dinner.

That is the beauty of having God himself as your foundation of all truth, anywhere you move and go, God is always there with you.

"Theism" is not, in my opinion, designed to appeal based on evidence. But it is designed to appeal to reason.....which every man....believer or non believer... has the capacity for (as a rule, and I understand there are exceptions to that, ie. mental issues, etc).

And that in itself will shut the heaven's door for you should you continue to practice it unto your death.

But in your case......even a thiest has nothing to reason with because it is only based on "you and God."

That is why everybody is being told to come to God, talk to God and ask from God. You do not have to come or see me to do these things to God. All you need is your decision and your willingness to discover God on your own volition, what hampers you from doing these things to God? These will not cost you any cent to do it all.

Until your reason can appeal to someone else outside of "you and God," it is, as the Bible says "a banging cymbal."

This is where you guys mostly fall to the trap, you always depend on to your wisdom and knowledge to validate things of God instead of trying to discover same the way how God is causing them to come to us. Look up to God and not to the things I say and God will look up to you, too.

[adlemi]

Without biblical support, this is no longer christianity, it's Adlemi-anity.

With biblical support and foundation, it is only biblical/(inity), but with God himself as the foundation and basis of all things, it is God(lical) and the absolute Truth which is the Head of Christianity. The bible is not God but God is the Almighty One hence always stand firm on solid foundation which is none other but God alone.

[McCulloch]

Without biblical support, this is no longer christianity, it's Adlemi-anity.

With biblical support and foundation, it is only biblical/(inity), but with God himself as the foundation and basis of all things, it is God(lical) and the absolute Truth which is the Head of Christianity. The bible is not God but God is the Almighty One hence always stand firm on solid foundation which is none other but God alone.

Apart from the Bible, what is it that Christians know about God? How reliable is direct revelation from God?

[Jester]

The truth cannot be dictated Jester.

That is why I said I bite my tongue when tempted to try to do so.

The truth is entirely subjective.

I must disagree with this one. Truth, by definition, is objective. Anything that is subjective cannot be called truth.

With same degree of truth that you believe they will go to hell, they believe they will not.

I have already commented that I do not know for certain who is going to Hell and who is not. There are those whom I suspect as such, but make no absolute claim regarding anyone’s ultimate destination. My point is that the truth of “where someone is going” exists completely unaffected by what any of us think.

All apologies if I implied that I have little concern over the issue. I generally deal with significant personal stress regarding the ultimate fate of those whom I suspect will suffer, but would be lying if I said that I loved “enough”.

I accept your apology. Not many christians seem to have much concern at all. You show more than others.

Thank you. I completely agree that we Christians are very immature regarding this point. I appreciate the willingness to deal with my flaws.

Let me put it in perspective with a hypothetical.

…

I don't encourage you to do the above to your mother to convert her. But I say this. If you truly believed she was going to hell, unless you are some sort of a monster (note: an ABSOLUTE monster - not "not nearly good enough as a human being"), then you would be doing these things.

See how easy it is for me to conclude you don't really believe unbelievers are going to hell, deep down?

I completely understand what you are saying with this, and basically agree with everything you have said. Personally, I don’t think that Christians have nearly as much faith as they claim to have and believe that no one has absolute faith. Most have not really considered the repercussions of the kind of things they say to non-Christians; believe me, it drives me crazy trying to convince Christians that most of what we say is anything but loving.

I don't believe you are a monster, or at least I don't want to believe any human being is that unfeeling, and that their invisible, intangible, mute, unknowable, absent, weak excuse for an imaginary friend is in any way more important than their family.

Without commenting on the truth/falsehood of God’s existence, you’re absolutely right about the ludicrousness of such behavior. Also, I would add that – if Christianity were that important to a person – he/she would pay attention to all the “love others, and help them any way you can” commandments.

It makes me sick to the soul when any religious person says - "I choose God before my family".

Personally, I don’t see the contradiction here. God says “love your family”. Anyone who “loves” God to the detriment of one’s relationship with one’s family doesn’t seem to be loving God so much as using God as an excuse to behave in an unloving manner.