Why is the bible needed at all?

Argue for and against Christianity

Moderator: Moderators

Post Reply
nobspeople
Prodigy
Posts: 3187
Joined: Wed Nov 11, 2020 11:32 am
Has thanked: 1510 times
Been thanked: 825 times

Why is the bible needed at all?

Post #1

Post by nobspeople »

Nothing existed but God. One 'day' God decided to make everything. Thus life began, based on the biblical story.
Over time, things happened and God seemed to say to himself, 'Y'all know what? I think I need to start appointing people to write this junk down!"
Thus the bible began.
Over the years, he appointed more people to write down, not only what he said, but what he did.
Later, it was edited and translated and distributed throughout the planet.

Today, us lowly humans, have almost instant communication via the internet.

So it brings to question, why did God need the bible written down at all? Why doesn't God simply download what he wants us to know directly into our brains? Even before the wheel, God could have directed what he wants us to know in to our brains. He made our brains, our desire to know, think and understand many claim.
Surely this would have been better than an old fashion written word!
And yet, here we are (robots on other planets, DNA being sequenced, desiring to explore the universe) yet we still must rely on an old style, written word.
Why?
Why didn't God tell us directly what he wanted us to know and ignore the need for a written word at all?
Have a great, potentially godless, day!

User avatar
brunumb
Savant
Posts: 6047
Joined: Thu Nov 02, 2017 4:20 am
Location: Melbourne
Has thanked: 6892 times
Been thanked: 3244 times

Re: Why is the bible needed at all?

Post #11

Post by brunumb »

John Bauer wrote: Thu Feb 11, 2021 5:15 pm
nobspeople wrote: Thu Feb 11, 2021 12:09 pm
[W]hy did God need the Bible written down at all? [. . .] Why didn't God tell us directly what he wanted us to know and ignore the need for a written word at all?
The following is taken from Chapter 1, paragraph 1, of the Westminster Confession of Faith in modern language (emphasis mine): "Our natural understanding and the works of creation and providence so clearly show God’s goodness, wisdom, and power that human beings have no excuse for not believing in him. However, these means alone cannot provide that knowledge of God and of his will which is necessary for salvation. Therefore it pleased the Lord at different times and in various ways to reveal himself and to declare that this revelation contains his will for his church. Afterwards it pleased God to put this entire revelation into writing so that the truth might be better preserved and transmitted and that the church, confronted with the corruption of the flesh and the evil purposes of Satan and the world, might be more securely established and comforted. Since God no longer reveals himself to his people in those earlier ways, Holy Scripture is absolutely essential.
Nice hypothesis, but assumes facts not in evidence. Opinions are not facts.
George Orwell:: “The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those who speak it.”
Voltaire: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."
Gender ideology is anti-science, anti truth.

User avatar
John Bauer
Apprentice
Posts: 182
Joined: Wed May 29, 2019 11:31 pm
Has thanked: 122 times
Been thanked: 64 times

Re: Why is the bible needed at all?

Post #12

Post by John Bauer »

brunumb wrote: Thu Feb 11, 2021 6:01 pm
Nice hypothesis, but assumes facts not in evidence. Opinions are not facts.
Which facts are assumed that the OP didn't already assume? It was the OP I was responding to, after all, not you.

User avatar
Miles
Savant
Posts: 5179
Joined: Fri Aug 28, 2009 4:19 pm
Has thanked: 434 times
Been thanked: 1614 times

Re: Why is the bible needed at all?

Post #13

Post by Miles »

brunumb wrote: Thu Feb 11, 2021 5:52 pm
Miles wrote: Thu Feb 11, 2021 2:55 pm So, play on Macduff. Let's see what happens around the next corner of mishaps, sin, and corruption.
But the Christian God already knows everything. How boring would it be knowing exactly what's around the next corner all the time.
"Tis a conundrum to be sure. Image Kind of like a loving god who kills women, children, and infants.


.

User avatar
brunumb
Savant
Posts: 6047
Joined: Thu Nov 02, 2017 4:20 am
Location: Melbourne
Has thanked: 6892 times
Been thanked: 3244 times

Re: Why is the bible needed at all?

Post #14

Post by brunumb »

John Bauer wrote: Thu Feb 11, 2021 6:10 pm
brunumb wrote: Thu Feb 11, 2021 6:01 pm
Nice hypothesis, but assumes facts not in evidence. Opinions are not facts.
Which facts are assumed that the OP didn't already assume? It was the OP I was responding to, after all, not you.
OK. I guess answering opinions with other opinions is valid.
George Orwell:: “The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those who speak it.”
Voltaire: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."
Gender ideology is anti-science, anti truth.

User avatar
2ndRateMind
Site Supporter
Posts: 1540
Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2017 4:25 am
Location: Pilgrim on another way
Has thanked: 65 times
Been thanked: 68 times

Re: Why is the bible needed at all?

Post #15

Post by 2ndRateMind »

nobspeople wrote: Thu Feb 11, 2021 12:09 pm ...Why didn't God tell us directly what he wanted us to know and ignore the need for a written word at all?
Seems God thinks it better for us to work it all out for ourselves. At the very least, it stops us getting bored.

Best wishes, 2RM.
Non omnes qui errant pereunt
Not all who wander are lost

nobspeople
Prodigy
Posts: 3187
Joined: Wed Nov 11, 2020 11:32 am
Has thanked: 1510 times
Been thanked: 825 times

Re: Why is the bible needed at all?

Post #16

Post by nobspeople »

John Bauer wrote: Thu Feb 11, 2021 5:15 pm
nobspeople wrote: Thu Feb 11, 2021 12:09 pm
[W]hy did God need the Bible written down at all? [. . .] Why didn't God tell us directly what he wanted us to know and ignore the need for a written word at all?
The following is taken from Chapter 1, paragraph 1, of the Westminster Confession of Faith in modern language (emphasis mine): "Our natural understanding and the works of creation and providence so clearly show God’s goodness, wisdom, and power that human beings have no excuse for not believing in him. However, these means alone cannot provide that knowledge of God and of his will which is necessary for salvation. Therefore it pleased the Lord at different times and in various ways to reveal himself and to declare that this revelation contains his will for his church. Afterwards it pleased God to put this entire revelation into writing so that the truth might be better preserved and transmitted and that the church, confronted with the corruption of the flesh and the evil purposes of Satan and the world, might be more securely established and comforted. Since God no longer reveals himself to his people in those earlier ways, Holy Scripture is absolutely essential.
Thanks for the response.
I just can't shake the feeling that this, as well worded as it may be, is nothing but yet another excuse for God not being totally present in the lives of people. Sure he can be as 'pleased' as he wants (if he exists and he's all powerful, what are we gonna' do about it?!?), that doesn't cause his exemption for allowing a flawed testament, that can cause doubt, can be twisted and requires faith in him, when he 'no longer reveals' himself 'to his people'.
I'm sure millions upon million of people are OK with this. I'm just not one of them, expecting much more from a supreme being that's said to love me.
Have a great, potentially godless, day!

User avatar
John Bauer
Apprentice
Posts: 182
Joined: Wed May 29, 2019 11:31 pm
Has thanked: 122 times
Been thanked: 64 times

Re: Why is the bible needed at all?

Post #17

Post by John Bauer »

nobspeople wrote: Fri Feb 12, 2021 10:14 am
I just can't shake the feeling that this, as well-worded as it may be, is nothing but yet another excuse for God not being totally present in the lives of people.
Perhaps you are unfamiliar with confessional documents like the Westminster Confession of Faith. What it presents is a systematic presentation of biblical theology; it is not speculative theology, which is where the charge of making excuses might have some traction. It describes the absence of God's manifest presence among his people because that's precisely what the Bible says. After making the statement, "Since God no longer reveals himself to his people in those earlier ways," a footnote references the biblical passage this is drawn from, Hebrews 1:1-2: "Long ago God spoke many times and in many ways to our ancestors through the prophets. And now, in these final days, he has spoken to us through his Son" (NLT). The WCF is not making excuses, it is presenting what the Bible says about a specific subject.

And even when you get into the theological details of this particular point, it likewise doesn't smell like excuse-making. What's being addressed is the paradigm shift in how God deals with his people. He formerly spoke to his people through the prophets, indicating the need for a mediatorial office for revelation from God. This old covenant prophetic office was a precursor of the coming messianic prophet, the Word of God incarnate (in the flesh). This is why God doesn't speak today in the way that he formerly spoke. The offices of prophet (e.g., Moses), priest (e.g., Eli), and king (e.g., David) always pointed to the promised Christ who would embody those roles and fulfill them.

Anyhow, that's kind of a tangent. So, moving on.

nobspeople wrote: Fri Feb 12, 2021 10:14 am
I'm sure millions upon millions of people are okay with this. I'm just not one of them, expecting much more from a supreme being that's said to love me.
Fair enough. There are some tasty morsels there worth chewing on, but I've got too much on my plate at the moment to give this the attention that it would be due.

User avatar
Tcg
Savant
Posts: 8667
Joined: Tue Nov 21, 2017 5:01 am
Location: Third Stone
Has thanked: 2257 times
Been thanked: 2369 times

Re: Why is the bible needed at all?

Post #18

Post by Tcg »

2ndRateMind wrote: Fri Feb 12, 2021 4:24 am
nobspeople wrote: Thu Feb 11, 2021 12:09 pm ...Why didn't God tell us directly what he wanted us to know and ignore the need for a written word at all?
Seems God thinks it better for us to work it all out for ourselves. At the very least, it stops us getting bored.

Best wishes, 2RM.
Seems that God does absolutely nothing at all. Of course this kind of God is no different from a God that doesn't exist at all. This kind of God needs philosophers to explain why he is mute, inactive, and useless.


Tcg
To be clear: Atheism is not a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods; it is a lack of belief in gods.

- American Atheists


Not believing isn't the same as believing not.

- wiploc


I must assume that knowing is better than not knowing, venturing than not venturing; and that magic and illusion, however rich, however alluring, ultimately weaken the human spirit.

- Irvin D. Yalom

User avatar
2ndRateMind
Site Supporter
Posts: 1540
Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2017 4:25 am
Location: Pilgrim on another way
Has thanked: 65 times
Been thanked: 68 times

Re: Why is the bible needed at all?

Post #19

Post by 2ndRateMind »

Tcg wrote: Sat Feb 13, 2021 2:16 am
2ndRateMind wrote: Fri Feb 12, 2021 4:24 am
nobspeople wrote: Thu Feb 11, 2021 12:09 pm ...Why didn't God tell us directly what he wanted us to know and ignore the need for a written word at all?
Seems God thinks it better for us to work it all out for ourselves. At the very least, it stops us getting bored.

Best wishes, 2RM.
Seems that God does absolutely nothing at all. Of course this kind of God is no different from a God that doesn't exist at all. ...


Tcg
Apart from creating and sustaining the universe, inspiring the good, and delivering justice at the end of our days, which all seems to me to be a pretty full agenda.

Best wishes, 2RM
Non omnes qui errant pereunt
Not all who wander are lost

User avatar
Purple Knight
Prodigy
Posts: 3935
Joined: Wed Feb 12, 2020 6:00 pm
Has thanked: 1250 times
Been thanked: 802 times

Re: Why is the bible needed at all?

Post #20

Post by Purple Knight »

brunumb wrote: Thu Feb 11, 2021 5:56 pm
2ndpillar2 wrote: Thu Feb 11, 2021 4:14 pm To test and prove the character of men suitable to live with, God gave man the choice to choose between light and darkness.
What is the point of a test when you know the result in advance?
I can see that there could be a point to it. It all depends on what you think you can do if you know, positively, that someone is going to commit a crime. Now I'm not asking if you think you can go there and try to stop him; I'm asking if you think you can punish him when he hasn't done anything wrong yet.

I'd hate to find myself at the Seat of Judgement, not having lived my life, asking, "Wait, Hell? Why?"

And God says, "Because you committed adultery."

To which I reply, "Adultery? How? I never became an adult. I'm a newborn soul, never having had a body. I committed no such thing."

"Yes," God replies, "but you would have."

Post Reply