Debating Runners!

[FinalEnigma]

An idea struck me while out running today, I'm trying to get in shape and get some exercise, and I'm sure there's others on here who are as well, so why not do it together and be accountable to one another? we all know that if you just do it on your own, with nobody to keep you honorable you're gonna cheat.

Now You don't have to run if running isn't your thing, you can walk, swim, bike, skip, fly or marathon somersault down the street if you like, the important thing is to get some exercise and keep up with it. You don't actually have to debate while running either, although that is worth bonus points.

I'm making a usergroup for this, and I know it's a bit silly and has nothing to do with the forum, but this is for everyone who's trying to get in shape, lose weight, or bring down their mile time.

I know I'm a few days late, but here's my new years resolution: To outrun everyone on DC&R! Now who's gonna stop me?
That's gonna be a tough one I know, as I'm not much of a runner at the moment, and I know at least Confused can outrun me, and I doubt shes gonna give ground without a fight.
And I know some of you have resolutions to get in shape. according to a poll on the news a few days ago that's the most common resolution, so who's up for doing it together? maybe a little competition and fun while we are at it?

So if you are interested, just post here with your current status(running time and distance, biking, swimming, walking, weight you're trying to lose[don't have to tell us your weight, just how much your trying to lose!]) and keep us updated every week or two weeks and post your latest accomplishment. Feel free to join the usergroup Debating Runners as well.(which I'm making right after this post)
I'll put up my mile time tomorrow once I get it timed.

[Cmass]

Didn't anyone ever tell you it is considered a faux pas to worry the leukemia girl during chemo???

The what? The "leukemia girl"? I suppose you can call yourself whatever you want but geeeez.
How about the Kickassandtakenames Girl instead? I like that one a bit better.

[FinalEnigma]

Didn't anyone ever tell you it is considered a faux pas to worry the leukemia girl during chemo???

The what? The "leukemia girl"? I suppose you can call yourself whatever you want but geeeez.
How about the Kickassandtakenames Girl instead? I like that one a bit better.

That one has my vote.

[aerobatty]

I'm still-and this really ticks my wife off-having trouble gaining weight. I'm 5'7" and 160 now, but I'd like to get another 5 or 10 pounds. I take a high calorie whey protein twice a day along with trying to eat higher protein, low fat in my regular diet. I think one thing I really need to start concentrating on is stretching between workouts. That's another one of those things I really don't enjoy, but I need to start.

Stretching can be incorporated into weight lifting if you do some core strengthening workouts. Doing things with a weighted medicine ball at the start and finish of your weight lifting will give you the stretches as well as increase muscle mass and strengthen core muscles to prevent another hernia.

For the weight, have your tried supplements like CarboMax? I use it during my on chemo weeks when I tend to lose too much weight from the chemo and I really don't want to listen to the lecturing from my doctors. The main problem with weight loss in weight lifters is that they lose muscle mass so much quicker and since muscle weighs more than fat, the correlation with the weight loss and muscle loss is much more pronounced. Since I can't eat meat, I rely heavily on protein shakes. The ones I have found the best are the ProComplete 40, (40 grams of protein per shake with 203 calories and 4 grams carbs) Vanilla Ice Cream is the best, and the EAS Myoplex Chocolate Fudge (25 g protein, 150 calories and 5 grams carbs). The EAS are premixed while the ProComplete is a powder. When I need to add the calories, I switch from the carb control to the regular EAS shakes and add a 1/2 to full scoop of the CarboMax.

With the combination of Carbs/Protein supplements, I can usually avoid getting too many lectures from my doctors (now if they could lay off everything else I do wrong ).

Either way, welcome to the dysfunctional but gets enjoys life group, LOL.

I'm starting to really get the importance of stretching. I've had lower back pain off and on for quite a while now. I found some strength imbalances in my legs that I worked on. That helped for a while, but the pains been pretty steady for a while now. I've started stretching more, but need to do even more I think. It definitely helps.
My core's pretty strong. I have a little bit of a six pack and I work the back and sides as well. I also do stability exercises. In fact, that's how I got my hernia. Got a little cocky with some weights and lunges.
I also use protein drinks. I use 4Ever Fit powder. They provide 2 different scoop sizes, so I think I've been doing half the recommended amount. It should be 930 and 52 grams of protein. Now I do the same amount since it tastes pretty good that way, but I do twice as many. I also got some chocolate flavor and I have some in my coffee in the morning and with milk before bed.

I just got the P90X workout videos. I did the first disk last night. Since I go to the gym daily, I don't think I'll be able to stick to the P90 program completely, but it has a lot of good alternative exercises that I plan to work into my routine. It also has stretching and yoga, so hopefully I can shed this back pain and make some more gains eventually. I already have some sore muscles from a couple of the P90 exercises, so I know I hit some that haven't been hit in a while.

I was using creatine for a while, but I'm cycling off of it for a month or so right now. I take glutamine before and after my workout as well. Then there are all the vitamins. I don't use multi vitamins, so I have about 10 bottles of various vitamins and minerals. My kids actually took a picture of all my supplements piled up on the kitchen table.

I did about 5 minutes of jogging on the treadmill yesterday and there was no pain in my incision, so I'll probably start doing some more running, too. I'd rather play racketball or tennis.

Stay well.

[FinalEnigma]

I don't really know a tremendous amount about theory of running, and I had a question if anyone knows and is inclined to answer:

I've been to several sites on running, and some of them say you should NOT run every day, and some say you should, so I'm not sure which is better.

So would it be better in general to run every other day? or would it be better to run more moderate differences every day?

Right now I'm running between 4 and 10 miles on tue/thurs/sunday. with the occasional shorter run between those. Would it be better to run say 3-5 miles daily?(not quite cutting down to 2 miles. that's hardly out the door)

I'm feeling fine running up to ten miles. my knee is hurting a bit(did 10 miles yesterday), but it's not too bad, I could easily ignore it. I suspect though that my muscles would not have stood up to a repeat of that today, I would guess much more than 2-3 miles would be a problem for my calves. I'm actually progressing fairly well the way I am doing now, but I certainly wouldn't mind progressing faster. So does anybody know definitively whether it is better to run daily or bi-daily (is that a word?)?

[Cmass]

I don't really know a tremendous amount about theory of running, and I had a question if anyone knows and is inclined to answer:

I've been to several sites on running, and some of them say you should NOT run every day, and some say you should, so I'm not sure which is better.

So would it be better in general to run every other day? or would it be better to run more moderate differences every day?

The answer is more complex than the question because it depends upon a lot of factors:
* The surface you are running on. Trails are far better than pavement - especially soft woodland trails - because they reduce impact stress which is the most injurious thing about running. Proper shoes are critical as well.
* Your weight. The heavier you are, the impact you will have and the less you should run. Do other sports until the weight comes down.
* Your goals. Do you want to be a runner or be a well-rounded athlete? Do you want a strong upper body, strong legs, or both? Are you looking for cardio or bulk or both? In my case, although I like running, it is really more part of a strategy to get healthy enough to climb and mtn biking at a high level.
* The nature of your injuries if you have them. If you have an injured hand, running every day probably won't hurt it - may in fact help it by increasing circulation. If you have an injured knee that is aggravated by running (sound familiar!?) then one might want to mix running with other exercises rather than run on it every day - especially if you are running on a hard surface.
* I have read that one of the best exercises you can do is swimming. It is very low impact, good cardio and involves all major muscle groups. Unfortunately, for most of us, it is also the least convenient as it requires planning around community pool schedules. (except perhaps in summer)
You might also want to mix things up with mtn bike riding, weight lifting, kayaking (rent one), xcountry skiing, hiking (it is a different workout than running - lower impact), basketball, racketball, bouldering (rock climbing on small pitches or indoor climbing walls). Bouldering is also a damn good workout and low impact - unless you fall a long way unroped!

* Michelle is very good about mixing up her workouts to keep balanced. She can probably provide some good advice on the types of exercises to try.

-----------------

I haven't checked in for a while but I have been doing a lot of hiking recently. Last week I did the Section Line Trail and the Powerline trail on Tiger Mountain - the two most difficult. These gain about 2,300 vertical feet in a straight line up the mountain with brush, mud, rocks, roots. The Section Line trail is straight up hand to hand combat and downright dangerous on the way down. Of course, I'm always by myself and often get caught in the dark which adds another layer of danger - and thus adrenaline.
Other than that, I've done Snoqualmie Mountain, Mt Si, Rattlesnake ledge, Rattlesnake mountain (no rattlesnakes), West Tiger, South Tiger, Little Si - and the trail above my house numerous times.

Tonight, I went on a very short, but awesome little hike on Taylor Mountain. It got dark fast since I got a late start, but the view I saw was beautiful - raw nature. There is a profusion of green all around at this time of year. It was also a bit cold, but as long as I kept moving, I didn't notice it.
I also heard some strange animal noises alongside the logging road I was hiking on. Pretty wild. At first I grabbed my pepper spray because I thought it was a black bear huffing at me. (They don't roar, they huff if they feel threatened.) But quite honestly, I can only describe it as a primate sound. Almost like lowland gorillas have moved into the area! Perhaps two Sasquatches?

Keep up the great work!

[FinalEnigma]

I don't really know a tremendous amount about theory of running, and I had a question if anyone knows and is inclined to answer:

I've been to several sites on running, and some of them say you should NOT run every day, and some say you should, so I'm not sure which is better.

So would it be better in general to run every other day? or would it be better to run more moderate differences every day?

The answer is more complex than the question because it depends upon a lot of factors:
* The surface you are running on. Trails are far better than pavement - especially soft woodland trails - because they reduce impact stress which is the most injurious thing about running. Proper shoes are critical as well.
* Your weight. The heavier you are, the impact you will have and the less you should run. Do other sports until the weight comes down.
* Your goals. Do you want to be a runner or be a well-rounded athlete? Do you want a strong upper body, strong legs, or both? Are you looking for cardio or bulk or both? In my case, although I like running, it is really more part of a strategy to get healthy enough to climb and mtn biking at a high level.
* The nature of your injuries if you have them. If you have an injured hand, running every day probably won't hurt it - may in fact help it by increasing circulation. If you have an injured knee that is aggravated by running (sound familiar!?) then one might want to mix running with other exercises rather than run on it every day - especially if you are running on a hard surface.
* I have read that one of the best exercises you can do is swimming. It is very low impact, good cardio and involves all major muscle groups. Unfortunately, for most of us, it is also the least convenient as it requires planning around community pool schedules. (except perhaps in summer)
You might also want to mix things up with mtn bike riding, weight lifting, kayaking (rent one), xcountry skiing, hiking (it is a different workout than running - lower impact), basketball, racketball, bouldering (rock climbing on small pitches or indoor climbing walls). Bouldering is also a damn good workout and low impact - unless you fall a long way unroped!

* Michelle is very good about mixing up her workouts to keep balanced. She can probably provide some good advice on the types of exercises to try.

-----------------

Well, my problem about this is that I'm constrained a great deal by money - and not owning a car. Every one of those alternate exercises that you mentioned requires transportation, or money. I do have access to weights, but it is so incredibly boring sitting there lifting weights for half an hour or longer. if I had somebody to talk to it wouldn't be so bad, but weight lifting by myself is incredibly boring. i did do it for awhile, and it worked rather well, but I eventually quit.

I did swimming for awhile when I took a swimming class...about 2 years ago. that was good too, but there aren't any pools withing at least 15 miles of me.

indoor rock climbing sounds awesome, but it takes money and transportation.
so you see my problem?

as far as the other part, you know about my knee, I run on the road because there aren't any trails within at least 5 miles and probably more than that, and my weight is fine - 160 or so.

I haven't checked in for a while but I have been doing a lot of hiking recently. Last week I did the Section Line Trail and the Powerline trail on Tiger Mountain - the two most difficult. These gain about 2,300 vertical feet in a straight line up the mountain with brush, mud, rocks, roots. The Section Line trail is straight up hand to hand combat and downright dangerous on the way down. Of course, I'm always by myself and often get caught in the dark which adds another layer of danger - and thus adrenaline.
Other than that, I've done Snoqualmie Mountain, Mt Si, Rattlesnake ledge, Rattlesnake mountain (no rattlesnakes), West Tiger, South Tiger, Little Si - and the trail above my house numerous times.

Tonight, I went on a very short, but awesome little hike on Taylor Mountain. It got dark fast since I got a late start, but the view I saw was beautiful - raw nature. There is a profusion of green all around at this time of year. It was also a bit cold, but as long as I kept moving, I didn't notice it.
I also heard some strange animal noises alongside the logging road I was hiking on. Pretty wild. At first I grabbed my pepper spray because I thought it was a black bear huffing at me. (They don't roar, they huff if they feel threatened.) But quite honestly, I can only describe it as a primate sound. Almost like lowland gorillas have moved into the area! Perhaps two Sasquatches?

hmm get a picture of the Sasquatches. It'll make you famous. :p

I really wish I lived somewhere like where you do - it sounds awesome.

[Cmass]

Well, my problem about this is that I'm constrained a great deal by money - and not owning a car. Every one of those alternate exercises that you mentioned requires transportation, or money.

Understood. And trust me, I know what you are up against. I spent a decade earning 2 degrees with very limited resources.
Nonetheless, you have too many excuses. You're a bright guy, you can come up with something. Remove the excuses. It's time to get creative! Bus, carpool, hitchhike, bicycle, neighbor or friend, motorbike, skateboard, horse, roller blades - I'm sure you can come up with something!

I agree weightlifting is gawd-awful boring. So, incorporate it into a workout so that you do 20 minutes weight lifting and 30 minutes running on some days. And why do you have to lift "official" weights in a gym? I rarely do that. I used to go on mt bike rides and use my bike as my weight set - and logs and rocks. Another thing: Go down to a work center and get a job that requires a pick and shovel. It will earn you some extra money and give you a damn good workout. I'm NOT kidding.There is no excuse not to do this.
Add push-ups, sit-ups etc . . . into your runs. Just stop & do them - against a light pole if you have to - on your reduced running days. Bring weights with you on your runs and pump them as you run.
And why not find someone who will work out with you? (I personally like to do my thing alone because I'm very picky about moving at my own pace. I also like to be alone with my thoughts. However, most people I know need a workout partner or they feel unmotivated.)

I really wish I lived somewhere like where you do - it sounds awesome.

Stop wishing and get fishing! I went to Western Washington University; one of the best regional universities in existence. It is also one of the best spots on earth if you are into outdoor sports. Just apply! I will even recommend you for the gas station job that paid for one of my degrees. (It also paid for a mtn bike, an old beater car and plenty of dates with athletic women who liked the outdoors. ) I also got a scholarship which blew me away because I was not a 4.0 student. It wasn't until my 6th year there that I finally wandered into the financial resource center out of curiosity. One of the staff told me there were lots of scholarships and loans. Like me, most people don't apply because they assume it requires being a top-notch academic. Not so. Many scholarships are simply donations by people who went through the same program at the school and want to help someone else. Others are corporate donations to help encourage people to go into fields that might help their industry.
I'm sure you can come up with a list of reasons why you are trapped in a place you really don't find very interesting and can't get out of. I'm sure you can easily convince yourself it is not possible to leave there at this point. I am also absolutely, positively sure that if you really wanted to live somewhere else - with diversity of people and landscape and sport - you could. The ONLY thing holding you back is your own will to do it.

- Chris

BTW: Give me a nearby address w/zip and I will get a better idea of where you are and what is around you. Perhaps I can find something interesting you haven't seen yet.

---------------------------------

Views of Western Wa University:





Been there, done this!

[FinalEnigma]

Well, my problem about this is that I'm constrained a great deal by money - and not owning a car. Every one of those alternate exercises that you mentioned requires transportation, or money.

Understood. And trust me, I know what you are up against. I spent a decade earning 2 degrees with very limited resources.
Nonetheless, you have too many excuses. You're a bright guy, you can come up with something. Remove the excuses. It's time to get creative! Bus, carpool, hitchhike, bicycle, neighbor or friend, motorbike, skateboard, horse, roller blades - I'm sure you can come up with something!

if the place I'm trying to go is within 10 miles I can bike there easily enough. as far as friends and that kind of stuff - the only people I might call friends live like 40 miles away, and I don't know how to ask people for stuff. Yes that last is a sad objection, but that's me. of course, it's an excuse and I know it, but it is true.

I agree weightlifting is gawd-awful boring. So, incorporate it into a workout so that you do 20 minutes weight lifting and 30 minutes running on some days. And why do you have to lift "official" weights in a gym? I rarely do that. I used to go on mt bike rides and use my bike as my weight set - and logs and rocks. Another thing: Go down to a work center and get a job that requires a pick and shovel.

err...I don't actually know what a work center is. I certainly wouldn't object to work of just about any variety though.

Add push-ups, sit-ups etc . . . into your runs. Just stop & do them - against a light pole if you have to - on your reduced running days.

That is potentially possible, there is a spot with a paved trail that has pull-up bars and that kind of stuff along it. I've done that a few times, but its either a several mile run to get there, or I'd be biking somewhere so I can go running. Maybe on my long run days i could do that.

And why not find someone who will work out with you? (I personally like to do my thing alone because I'm very picky about moving at my own pace. I also like to be alone with my thoughts. However, most people I know need a workout partner or they feel unmotivated.)

I don't have any friends who are into that...the maybe-friends i mentioned before? they are both over 60 and not active.

I really wish I lived somewhere like where you do - it sounds awesome.

Stop wishing and get fishing! I went to Western Washington University; one of the best regional universities in existence. It is also one of the best spots on earth if you are into outdoor sports. Just apply! I will even recommend you for the gas station job that paid for one of my degrees. (It also paid for a mtn bike, an old beater car and plenty of dates with athletic women who liked the outdoors. ) I also got a scholarship which blew me away because I was not a 4.0 student. It wasn't until my 6th year there that I finally wandered into the financial resource center out of curiosity. One of the staff told me there were lots of scholarships and loans. Like me, most people don't apply because they assume it requires being a top-notch academic. Not so. Many scholarships are simply donations by people who went through the same program at the school and want to help someone else. Others are corporate donations to help encourage people to go into fields that might help their industry.
I'm sure you can come up with a list of reasons why you are trapped in a place you really don't find very interesting and can't get out of. I'm sure you can easily convince yourself it is not possible to leave there at this point. I am also absolutely, positively sure that if you really wanted to live somewhere else - with diversity of people and landscape and sport - you could. The ONLY thing holding you back is your own will to do it.

Well, to do something - to effect change, I have to either
A) first have a job, which i'm trying for, but not doing so well with the economy and my location.
or B) Have a place to stay somewhere long enough for me to get a job.

Correct? or am I missing an option? I'm new at this.

my resources at the moment are about $500 in the bank, my posessions(I could sell some stuff and gather a bit more money maybe $1 or $2k max.), and a plane ticket to just about anywhere in the country.(credit with the airline). And a complete lack of attachment to my current location.

hmm...still got that spot in the basement you jokingly offered me a couple years ago? :p

BTW: Give me a nearby address w/zip and I will get a better idea of where you are and what is around you. Perhaps I can find something interesting you haven't seen yet.

Will PM.

Views of Western Wa University:





Been there, done this!

See, now that would be a great place to go to college. I've always wanted to learn how to snowboard.

For the moment I'm gonna go out for a run - I haven't had the chance before now today.

[FinalEnigma]

I did my run today, Went down to the park, did 3 mile laps around the trail, then ran back, total distance of about 8 miles. On each lap I did 20 sit-ups and pushups, and 5 pull-ups(which I'm vaguely surprised I can still do. I've always been a lower body strength person rather than upper body)

I do want to become more rounded than simply a runner, its just that I have difficulty finding activities that are within about 10 miles or so of my house that will do a lot for upper body.

[Cmass]

Great job Finalenigma!

I too had a success today. Actually a MAJOR success. I completed a climb I was hoping to do by the end of the summer - including a sphincter-clenching rock climb to the true summit at the end.

I was fine except for some nasty blisters. Until I got to within 200 ft of the car which is when I let my guard down and tripped (it was dark) on a root. I went flying and hyper-extended my hamstring. Oh well. I'll take the next 2 days off and then try some easy hikes until I recover.

I have a few OK pics but I also took vid clips of much of it and narrated as I went from the base to the very top. I will edit them together when I get the time.

Note: Do NOT try this at home. I rock climbed for many years (albeit many years ago) before doing this kind of thing. Even then, I am unroped on a 5.7 pitch which can be extremely dangerous.

- Chris


Massive old growth trees on the lower slopes:


Lower summit:




Taken from the saddle where most people stop. The bottom of the pinnacle I decided to climb is to the right.
If you look really carefully, you can see the skyscrapers of downtown Seattle at the edge of Puget Sound. Look on the left side of the picture in the far, far distance next to what looks like a tiny spot of water. They look like they are only a couple millimeters high.


On the way up the rock face. I had to position myself carefully to grab the camera for this one (Duh!). Rule#1: Always keep at least 3 appendages on the rock at all times!


Sorry about seeing nothing but my feet, but I really didn't have time to set up the shot well. Oddly, the video turned out better because I didn't have to keep it still.

Yes, that is straight down - looking onto the tops of the trees. Weee!


I was quite worried about my upper body strength after so many years not rock climbing. But, it appears my many weeks of hard core yard work paid off. I did get the shakes on the way down - but it was mostly do to a spot where I freaked out a bit and had to do a bit of deep breathing. There is no better way to focus the mind than knowing lack of focus will kill you.


SERIOUSLY bad place to F-up. Its one thing to fall 300 feet down a jagged rock face and end up as steak chunks for the mountain lions (picture above). It is an entirely different matter to fall several thousand feet down a rock face and end up as tiny pieces of meat for the ants and maggots in the valley below.


The view from the summit with Mt. Rainier in the distance:


Hitchhike out here and I'll take you up this peak. Just make sure you bring some adult-sized diapers for the last pitch.