Was the Flood Literal? Osteng vs. Zzyzx One on One Debate

[Zzyzx]

Place any comments about our debate here.





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[Revelations won]

My, my, it is amazing the Zzyzx, McCulloch and others are afraid to touch "Waters Above the Firmament". Yet they spew forth their rant and raves of their own little theories without proof that their perspective is the only possibility.

But don't worry, this is no surprise, for the scriptures speak of those who are wise in their own eyes and who will be "mockers" in the last days, who are "heady, high minded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God, having a form of godliness but denying the power thereof."

How is it that when a professor sets forth "Waters Above the Firmament", that you guys who rattle on incessently, are afraid to give solid coherent point by point answers?

It appears that your only defense is that you, ostrich like, stick your head in the sand and ignore an answer when it does come.

Additionally, you seem to have a propensity to make absurd conclusions regarding sediment formations and relate you doubts in reference to the flood. I, for one have not said anything claiming these evidences relate to the flood.

If all you desire is to rant and rave without serious respectful discussion, then take your bigoted rants and rave to the appropriate section in this forum.

[Zzyzx]

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My, my, it is amazing the Zzyzx, McCulloch and others are afraid to touch "Waters Above the Firmament". Yet they spew forth their rant and raves of their own little theories without proof that their perspective is the only possibility.

I do not “touch” the tale of Santa descending chimneys either – for exactly the same reason.

“Waters above the Firmament” may be very convincing to someone not aware of hydrology, meteorology, climatology, geology, archeology, etc and who wants to believe that the bible is literally true.

Debating scientific topics with those who have not learned about or studied the fields in question does not tend to be very productive or illuminating. Discussion with those whose idea of “knowledge” is contained in Bronze Age tales negates the past two thousand years of learning.

[Revelations won]

Sounds to me like you think everybody should be gullible enough to swallow all your doctrines of man without questioning their validity,

As I see it, your fear or refusal to address the issues I have raised amount to nothing more than a cheap escape to avoid the truth.

But that's your privilege to choose to stick your head in the sand and pretend that you have nothing to debate.

[bernee51]

Sounds to me like you think everybody should be gullible enough to swallow all your doctrines of man without questioning their validity,...

And it sounds to me that you are gullible enough to swallow bronze age muyths as facts along with the non-science and apologetics that seek to defend them

As I see it, your fear or refusal to address the issues I have raised amount to nothing more than a cheap escape to avoid the truth.

The way it see it is those with a scientific background are reluctant to argue against those who resort to ther suoernatural.

But that's your privilege to choose to stick your head in the sand and pretend that you have nothing to debate.

When there is nothing to debate there is nothig to debate.

I hav not seen either of the two you accuse to shirk debate with any on this forum. Why do you see yourself as so special?

[McCulloch]

How is it that when a professor sets forth "Waters Above the Firmament", that you guys who rattle on incessently, are afraid to give solid coherent point by point answers?

How about the fact that I am not a geologist, an hydrologist or a cosmologist. If you were to post evidence that any recognized expert in those fields agreed with this Waters above the firmament idea, then we might have something to talk about. But, for now, I will stick with the consensus of the experts in those fields where there is a consensus of experts and I am not an expert. Those with less than expert knowledge in a field can easily be confused and led astray by nutballs who know how to speak the jargon but have way-out theories.

[Zzyzx]

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Sounds to me like you think everybody should be gullible enough to swallow all your doctrines of man without questioning their validity

What, exactly, do you refer to as my "doctrines of man"? Kindly quote (exactly) my position to which you refer.

As I see it, your fear or refusal to address the issues I have raised amount to nothing more than a cheap escape to avoid the truth.

As I said, I do not debate Santa tales either (and there appears to be more substantial support for the Santa myth than for the various god myths).

If you have evidence that water to flood the Earth came from extra-terrestrial sources, I am willing to discuss the matter. If what you offer is an unsupported fairytale, kindly acknowledge that your claims cannot be supported by any credible evidence (note: biblical quotes are not regarded a evidence by those who do not accept the bible as being anything more than fable, fiction or fraud).

[wrekk]

My, my, it is amazing the Zzyzx, McCulloch and others are afraid to touch "Waters Above the Firmament". Yet they spew forth their rant and raves of their own little theories without proof that their perspective is the only possibility.

I for one, think that this sounds very fascinating. SURELY there is more information or studies done on this phenomenom, outside the bible.

Evidence please? Sources?

[wrekk]

Come on, Revelations won. I am waiting ...

Surely, of all people, you wouldn't come here and "spew forth their rant and raves of their own little theories without proof that their perspective is the only possibility." Would you?

I, if not many others here, am waiting to be educated on this "Waters Above the Firmament" phenomenon. Are you "afraid to touch" this?

[wrekk]

How is it that when a professor sets forth "Waters Above the Firmament", that you guys who rattle on incessantly, are afraid to give solid coherent point by point answers?

Well Professor, I am still waiting for my lesson...

[Revelations won]

My, my, it is amazing the Zzyzx, McCulloch and others are afraid to touch "Waters Above the Firmament". Yet they spew forth their rant and raves of their own little theories without proof that their perspective is the only possibility.

I for one, think that this sounds very fascinating. SURELY there is more information or studies done on this phenomenom, outside the bible.

Evidence please? Sources?

I likewise find this to be very fascinating. By the way I am not the professor.

What makes this article even more intriguing is the fact that it was first published in the spring of 1874! That's approximately 133 years ago. The author of the article is Isaac N. Vail. I was told at one time that he was a professor. At what college or university I have no idea. I have no idea where he even lived.

It may be possible that he used the best scientific research that was available 133 years ago. If so it is interesting to view the changes that scientists of today now perceive and view the many things brought forth in "Waters Above The Firmament", at least for those who have done some research in the subject areas. It may be interesting to see what additional research in the next 133 years will produce. ???

As I have read and reread this article carefully, it seemed to have a ring of truth in it's contents. At least the view presented on how the flood could have logically occurred, was to me refreshing and fascinating to say the least.

I found that the logic and explanation of why those prior to the flood never saw a rainbow, to make a natural and obvious rational that I had never heard before.

I find it very amusing that so many think that this is all something NEW, when in fact it has been around for more than 133 years!

I think his research papers would also be very fascinating to study if they are available today.


So if anyone wants to ask the professor directly, it will be necessary to pass through death to speak with Mr. Vail beyond the veil.

I hope this has been fun for you to discover the source of this article.

If anyone has more information on it's author, please post it that we all may be edified with his personal history.