New user with a question

[Enculasse Deskeubs]

Hi, everyone.

I was "politely" asked to take this question to a religious debate forum, which, I guess, this is.

I see all of this discussion about so many complex topics, and I would love to jump in on it, but first I have to get an answer to my very simple question. Why do people believe that God exists?

I'm not an atheist, I've just never seen any evidence to show that a god or gods exist, so I'm wondering why other people believe it.

[Zzyzx]

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I looked it up and it applies if you suggest too strongly that someone’s claim or argument is correct simply because it’s what most everyone believes.

OK so agreement with popular opinion is not necessarily a reliable sign of truth but what most everyone believes is however likely to be true, all things considered.

The fallacy only occurs when this degree of support is overestimated.
Where is the proof that this is the case?

Sure you have.. the piece where did it was

It is a fact that more than 90% of the world population believe in some form of god.

To use that as a reason to find the belief reasonable is the argument to popularity.

It does NOT matter how great a percentage of people believe something OR whether the percentage is overestimated.

Even if the percentage who believe is 100% and the figure is accurate, to cite their belief in a claim that something is true (or reasonable) IS to commit the fallacy Argument to popularity. You ARE claiming that something is true (or reasonable) because many think so.

You are saying words to the effect, "Because 'everybody' (or most of the population) believes in a 'god' it is reasonable to think they are right".

Do you use the term "reasonable" to mean to be in agreement with a majority belief?

[Zzyzx]

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I would believe most facts to be true I think facts can change where as truth cannot,

Facts are, by definition, true. The term is defined as: "a : something that has actual existence : EVENT b : an occurrence, quality, or relation the reality of which is manifest in experience or may be inferred with certainty; specifically : an actual happening in time or space"

A "not true fact" is oxymoronic.

Facts, being true, cannot change -- though conditions may change. It may be a fact that slavery is legal under some code of law. If a later law declares slavery illegal, that does not change the fact that it was legal earlier.

but as I said before I don’t think I can know what’s really true anyway.

Agreed -- but we can use intelligence, judgment, discernment, evidence, experience, and verification to attempt to learn, to the best of our ability, what is actually true in the real world we inhabit.

We CAN know, beyond any reasonable doubt, that dropping a heavy rock on our foot will result in pain (a fact). Knowing this, we can adjust to reality by wearing steel toe boots when handling heavy rocks. Thus, there is benefit in knowledge.

[Baz]

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I would believe most facts to be true I think facts can change where as truth cannot,

Facts are, by definition, true. The term is defined as: "a : something that has actual existence : EVENT b : an occurrence, quality, or relation the reality of which is manifest in experience or may be inferred with certainty; specifically : an actual happening in time or space"

A "not true fact" is oxymoronic.

Facts, being true, cannot change -- though conditions may change. It may be a fact that slavery is legal under some code of law. If a later law declares slavery illegal, that does not change the fact that it was legal earlier.

I believe you are correct when you say that “Facts are true by definition�

What I should have said was ;( what is predominantly believed to be fact). As you have made the point that; what is predominantly believed may not necessarily be true, you can probably see the point I am trying to make, even if I don’t have your debating skills.



Another attempt to explain my point would be something like; Truth is truth if we believe it or not. We can only believe something to be true. What we believe to be fact will probably change over time regardless of the supporting evidence.

Just a thought but if what I am trying to say is in some way true, it would be more annoying to a scientist having to admit that what he or she believes to be fact will probably change, than it would be for a theist to admit that his or her belief will probably change. Even given that a significant number of them appear to be stick in the muds.

[Baz]

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I looked it up and it applies if you suggest too strongly that someone’s claim or argument is correct simply because it’s what most everyone believes.

OK so agreement with popular opinion is not necessarily a reliable sign of truth but what most everyone believes is however likely to be true, all things considered.

The fallacy only occurs when this degree of support is overestimated.
Where is the proof that this is the case?

Sure you have.. the piece where did it was

It is a fact that more than 90% of the world population believe in some form of god.

To use that as a reason to find the belief reasonable is the argument to popularity.

It does NOT matter how great a percentage of people believe something OR whether the percentage is overestimated.

Even if the percentage who believe is 100% and the figure is accurate, to cite their belief in a claim that something is true (or reasonable) IS to commit the fallacy Argument to popularity. You ARE claiming that something is true (or reasonable) because many think so.

You are saying words to the effect, "Because 'everybody' (or most of the population) believes in a 'god' it is reasonable to think they are right".

Do you use the term "reasonable" to mean to be in agreement with a majority belief?

Zzyzx
By the way I still do not concede that I have committed the fallacy argument to popularity. When I looked it up it was considered to matter if it was overstated and I maintain it was not.
And
When did I say Because?
PS.
I use the word reasonable to mean reasonable ... In fair and sound judgement.

[Zzyzx]

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I use the word reasonable to mean reasonable ... In fair and sound judgement.

I am content with what has been presented, and trust that readers will evaluate whether accepting as reasonable to believe "what 90% people believe" is indeed reasonable or not.