Hello to All Posters!

[RND]

Hello to all posters!

My name is David and I'm from Victorville, California, about 90 miles from downtown Los Angeles.

I am a Seventh-day Adventist Christian that believes in the Godhead of God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit.

I'm looking to have some lively yet extremely respectful debates and information exchange. I'm sure I'll get to know many of you in a good way and make many new friends.

Deu 6:4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God [is] one LORD:

Shema!

[McCulloch]

I don't consider myself a "trinitarian" frankly but I believe in the Godhead of God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. Trinitarian can lead to all sorts of theocratic problems because some identify the Mother of Christ as part of the Trinity.

But, off to you point. Whether one believes in the "Godhead" or not my understanding is that as long as the confess the name of Jesus Christ is the Son of the Living God they are saved. Hence, that would make them Christian.

Your turn for the dictionary.

Trinâ‹…iâ‹…tarâ‹…iâ‹…an
–adjective
1. believing in or adhering to the doctrine of the Trinity.

Trinâ‹…iâ‹…ty
1. the union of three persons (Father, Son, and Holy Ghost) in one Godhead, or the threefold personality of the one Divine Being.

Others may consider themselves a "trinitarian" and that's just fine. I'm a believer in the "Godhead." BTW, did you notice this in the definition you provided: "the union of three persons (Father, Son, and Holy Ghost) in one Godhead."

Yup.
Trinitarian = believer in the Godhead

Did you notice anything about a mother in the definition?

[RND]

Yup.
Trinitarian = believer in the Godhead

Did you notice anything about a mother in the definition?

Well, that's all well and good for the dictionary, but frankly there are so many views of the trinity that you can't tell the players without a scorecard. The reality is honestly much different. For example some will say they believe in the "trinity" but believe that God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit are the same person (Dynamic Monarchianism). Modalistic Monarchianism doesn't emphasize the role of the Holy Spirit, but doesn't deny the Spirit. Some believe Christ is from the Father but didn't have the Father's nature. Others believe the virgin Mary is part of the trinity. Some make a difference between the "flesh" trinity as opposed the the "spiritual" trinity.

You see, it's just not as cut n dried a topic as we could hope it to be. That's why I insist on letting people know that I believe in the Godhead which is less likely to be mistaken or confused with other views of the trinity.

[McCulloch]

You see, it's just not as cut n dried a topic as we could hope it to be. That's why I insist on letting people know that I believe in the Godhead which is less likely to be mistaken or confused with other views of the trinity.

I just realized that this is supposed to be a general chat not a debate. Moderators really should know better. Perhaps we should start a debate about what the Bible teaches about the Godhead.

[cnorman18]

I'm just curious; I have never, ever, heard of any Christian denomination which considers Mary to be one of the Persons (or whatever) of the Trinity or in any way divine or a manifestation or aspect of the Deity.

Can you provide an example of any denomination or group that holds such a belief, and documentation for it?

I think that falls within the parameters for "chat." I just never heard of such a thing.

[RND]

I'm just curious; I have never, ever, heard of any Christian denomination which considers Mary to be one of the Persons (or whatever) of the Trinity or in any way divine or a manifestation or aspect of the Deity.

Can you provide an example of any denomination or group that holds such a belief, and documentation for it?

I think that falls within the parameters for "chat." I just never heard of such a thing.

Sure. Catholics believe that Mary is part of the trinity.

MARY’S RELATIONSHIP WITH THE TRINITY
Pope John Paul II

Our Lady, who was granted the dignity of being the Mother of God, is also the favoured daughter of the Father and the temple of the Holy Spirit

"Mary "is endowed with the high office and dignity of the Mother of the Son of God, and therefore she is also the beloved daughter of the Father and the temple of the Holy Spirit" (Lumen gentium, n. 53). With this quote from the Second Vatican Council, the Holy Father expressed in concise form the Trinitarian dimension of Marian doctrine, which was the subject of his catechesis at the General Audience of Wednesday, 10 January. Here is a translation of his address, which was the 11th in the series on the Blessed Virgin and was given in Italian."

[cnorman18]

Sure. Catholics believe that Mary is part of the trinity.

MARY’S RELATIONSHIP WITH THE TRINITY
Pope John Paul II

Our Lady, who was granted the dignity of being the Mother of God, is also the favoured daughter of the Father and the temple of the Holy Spirit

"Mary "is endowed with the high office and dignity of the Mother of the Son of God, and therefore she is also the beloved daughter of the Father and the temple of the Holy Spirit" (Lumen gentium, n. 53). With this quote from the Second Vatican Council, the Holy Father expressed in concise form the Trinitarian dimension of Marian doctrine, which was the subject of his catechesis at the General Audience of Wednesday, 10 January. Here is a translation of his address, which was the 11th in the series on the Blessed Virgin and was given in Italian."

Okay, thanks. I can easily buy that Catholics believe that Mary is deeply connected to tbr Trinity. I took your statement that some believe she is "part of" the Trinity to mean that they think she is one of the Three Persons of the Trinity, I.e. God Incarnate.

[RND]

Okay, thanks. I can easily buy that Catholics believe that Mary is deeply connected to tbr Trinity. I took your statement that some believe she is "part of" the Trinity to mean that they think she is one of the Three Persons of the Trinity, I.e. God Incarnate.

If you read the statement very carefully that therefore she is also the beloved daughter of the Father and the temple of the Holy Spirit" they are connecting Mary as being part of the trinity. Catholic hierarchy believes Mary is "co-redemtrix" with Christ, meaning she is equal in the redemption process with Christ. It stands to figure based on the above they also consider her "equal" with the Father and the Holy Ghost.

With Catholicism one has as much reading between the lines and reading the actual words. By saying, "Mary's privileged relationship with the Trinity" is to suggest that other's can not or do not have the same relationship, making Mary special outside of others.

DIES DIERUM: Sunday: the Primordial Feast, Revealing the Meaning of Time. &ldots; The spiritual and pastoral riches of Sunday, as it has been handed on to us by tradition, are truly great. &ldots; Significantly, the Catechism of the Catholic Church teaches that “the Sunday celebration of the Lord’s Day and his Eucharist is at the heart of the Church’s life...As they listen to the word proclaimed in the Sunday assembly, the faithful look to the Virgin Mary, learning from her to keep it and ponder it in their hearts (cf. Lk 2:19). With Mary, they learn to stand at the foot of the Cross, offering to the Father the sacrifice of Christ and joining to it the offering of their own lives. With Mary, they experience the joy of the Resurrection, making their own the words of the Magnificat which extol the inexhaustible gift of divine mercy in the inexorable flow of time: “His mercy is from age to age upon those who fear him� (Lk 1:50). From Sunday to Sunday, the pilgrim people follow in the footsteps of Mary, and her maternal intercession gives special power and fervour to the prayer which rises from the Church to the Most Holy Trinity.�

[cnorman18]

Okay, thanks. I can easily buy that Catholics believe that Mary is deeply connected to tbr Trinity. I took your statement that some believe she is "part of" the Trinity to mean that they think she is one of the Three Persons of the Trinity, I.e. God Incarnate.

If you read the statement very carefully that therefore she is also the beloved daughter of the Father and the temple of the Holy Spirit" they are connecting Mary as being part of the trinity. Catholic hierarchy believes Mary is "co-redemtrix" with Christ, meaning she is equal in the redemption process with Christ. It stands to figure based on the above they also consider her "equal" with the Father and the Holy Ghost.

With Catholicism one has as much reading between the lines and reading the actual words. By saying, "Mary's privileged relationship with the Trinity" is to suggest that other's can not or do not have the same relationship, making Mary special outside of others.

DIES DIERUM: Sunday: the Primordial Feast, Revealing the Meaning of Time. &ldots; The spiritual and pastoral riches of Sunday, as it has been handed on to us by tradition, are truly great. &ldots; Significantly, the Catechism of the Catholic Church teaches that “the Sunday celebration of the Lord’s Day and his Eucharist is at the heart of the Church’s life...As they listen to the word proclaimed in the Sunday assembly, the faithful look to the Virgin Mary, learning from her to keep it and ponder it in their hearts (cf. Lk 2:19). With Mary, they learn to stand at the foot of the Cross, offering to the Father the sacrifice of Christ and joining to it the offering of their own lives. With Mary, they experience the joy of the Resurrection, making their own the words of the Magnificat which extol the inexhaustible gift of divine mercy in the inexorable flow of time: “His mercy is from age to age upon those who fear him� (Lk 1:50). From Sunday to Sunday, the pilgrim people follow in the footsteps of Mary, and her maternal intercession gives special power and fervour to the prayer which rises from the Church to the Most Holy Trinity.�

Okay, but all that is still short of saying that Mary is God. The underlined portions above shows that she participates in prayers TO the Trinity, and not that she is part of it. That Catholics elevate Mary above all other saints and humans is beyond doubt, but they still don't think she's divine.

Enh, I don't care. Freedom of thought and all that. People can believe what they like as long as it doesn't harm others.

You do have this odd tendency to tell people what their religion teaches, even when they themselves tell you that it doesn't. Are you prepared to tell Hindus what Hinduism consists of, too?

[RND]

Okay, but all that is still short of saying that Mary is God. The underlined portions above shows that she participates in prayers TO the Trinity, and not that she is part of it. That Catholics elevate Mary above all other saints and humans is beyond doubt, but they still don't think she's divine.

Enh, I don't care. Freedom of thought and all that. People can believe what they like as long as it doesn't harm others.

With Catholicism, it's all about reading between the lines. Understanding the history of, and the Gnosticism adopted by Catholicism is to me vital in understanding how Catholicism is no different than the ancient Babylonian mystery religions of Nimrod.

You do have this odd tendency to tell people what their religion teaches, even when they themselves tell you that it doesn't. Are you prepared to tell Hindus what Hinduism consists of, too?

I have a great deal of knowledge regard the Hebraic, Judaism, and the Christian sub-sects. I have limited knowledge of Hinduism other than thaey believe like Christians that the "soul" fly's away or into something at death. Christians to heaven, Hindus into cows or rats.[/quote]

[cnorman18]

Okay, but all that is still short of saying that Mary is God. The underlined portions above shows that she participates in prayers TO the Trinity, and not that she is part of it. That Catholics elevate Mary above all other saints and humans is beyond doubt, but they still don't think she's divine.

Enh, I don't care. Freedom of thought and all that. People can believe what they like as long as it doesn't harm others.

With Catholicism, it's all about reading between the lines. Understanding the history of, and the Gnosticism adopted by Catholicism is to me vital in understanding how Catholicism is no different than the ancient Babylonian mystery religions of Nimrod.

You're entitled to your opinions, at least as far as passing personal judgments on religions is concerned. When you presume to know what other religions teach, though, that is not a matter of opinion, but of fact, and you don't get to make factual claims that contradict the actual beliefs of those religions.

You do have this odd tendency to tell people what their religion teaches, even when they themselves tell you that it doesn't. Are you prepared to tell Hindus what Hinduism consists of, too?

I have a great deal of knowledge regard the Hebraic, Judaism...

I think I have already commented on the truth of that statement. I decline to comment further.

, and the Christian sub-sects. I have limited knowledge of Hinduism other than thaey believe like Christians that the "soul" fly's away or into something at death. Christians to heaven, Hindus into cows or rats.

[/quote]

Can't help you there, I don't know much about it either. I'm just glad you aren't telling Hindus what their religion teaches like you tell Jews.